MBB: NESCAC

[lefrakenstein]

Can NYU beat Brandeis? If Brandeis wins, would you say they are a lock. I would think no one wants to face them in first round of NCAA's. It would probably be a good match too because Brandeis has a lower region ranking.

I would not say Brandeis is a lock at all.  What I would say is that Amherst really really needs to win their tourney if they want a good shot at the NCAAs, because this weeks rankings wouldnt make me feel very good if I were an Amherst supporter.

Hugenerd, could you give a little insight into how you go about estimating who will or will not receive an at large bid? Does the NCAA typically go straight down the list of regional rankings when awarding Pool Cs? How do you predict how many bids a region will receive?

D3hoops had Amherst as its top on-the-bubble team about a week ago. Hard to understand which circumstances have changed since then.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Can NYU beat Brandeis? If Brandeis wins, would you say they are a lock. I would think no one wants to face them in first round of NCAA's. It would probably be a good match too because Brandeis has a lower region ranking.

I would not say Brandeis is a lock at all.  What I would say is that Amherst really really needs to win their tourney if they want a good shot at the NCAAs, because this weeks rankings wouldnt make me feel very good if I were an Amherst supporter.

Hugenerd, could you give a little insight into how you go about estimating who will or will not receive an at large bid? Does the NCAA typically go straight down the list of regional rankings when awarding Pool Cs? How do you predict how many bids a region will receive?

D3hoops had Amherst as its top on-the-bubble team about a week ago. Hard to understand which circumstances have changed since then.

Reading 3-4 pages of the Pool C thread (multi-region topics board) should give you a good start on understanding this process.

[Old Guy]

What a fabulous unprecedented weekend for Middlebury hoops. Of course, I have a fierce rooting interest in the first game, but I also can't wait to see the Ephs-Jeffs battle in our gym - the two best teams in the region in the last decade, as was pointed out. If the Panthers should lose (not entirely far-fetched) to the Polar Bears, I will be very disappointed, but will enjoy the title tilt on Sunday anyway. For me, this season has been a gift.

A good thing is happening in the town of Middlebury too - hoop fever has struck. It's been coming for some time in the schools, but now it's a genuine contagion.

If you're coming up for the games, stick around on Saturday, as NESCAC tourney action in men's ice hockey starts just after the Wms-Amherst hoop game ends (Midd-Hamilton), in the same complex, in what must be one of the nicest hockey arenas in the country.

It's a sports carnival.

[Hugenerd]

Can NYU beat Brandeis? If Brandeis wins, would you say they are a lock. I would think no one wants to face them in first round of NCAA's. It would probably be a good match too because Brandeis has a lower region ranking.

I would not say Brandeis is a lock at all.  What I would say is that Amherst really really needs to win their tourney if they want a good shot at the NCAAs, because this weeks rankings wouldnt make me feel very good if I were an Amherst supporter.

Hugenerd, could you give a little insight into how you go about estimating who will or will not receive an at large bid? Does the NCAA typically go straight down the list of regional rankings when awarding Pool Cs? How do you predict how many bids a region will receive?

D3hoops had Amherst as its top on-the-bubble team about a week ago. Hard to understand which circumstances have changed since then.

Here is an overview:

The d3hoops predictions are based solely on quantitative factors described by pabegg on the Pool C board.  They take into account 2 of the 5 primary criteria (Record and OWP/OOWP), which are usually the most important.  However, they do not take into account head-to-head and results against regional opponents.

Conversely, the NCAA rankings are official.  The way Pool C's are selected is by taking the top team in each region (after Pool As and Pool Bs are eliminated) and ranking them 1-8.  The top team is then given a pool C bid and the next ranked team from that region is added to the top 8 and ranked amongst those 8.  Therefore, if they did that process today, Amherst would not even by under Pool C consideration until Brandeis was off of the board (given a Pool C bid) because they are ranked ahead of them in the same region.  Two teams from the same region are never considered for a Pool C spot at the same time.  Therefore, for Amherst to get a Pool C before Brandeis, they would need to be ranked higher than Brandeis in the NCAA regional rankings (the final ones calculated next Sunday which are not released to the public).  Therefore, if Brandeis wins this week I do not see how they would be ranked below Amherst on Sunday since they were ranked ahead of them this week.

[fpc85]

Thinking about making the trip to Middlebury. Are there reasonable places to stay within 10 minutes of the school?

[Old Guy]

"Thinking about making the trip to Middlebury. Are there reasonable places to stay within 10 minutes of the school?"

Normally, yes. This weekend, maybe not. NESCAC basketball, men's (4:00) and women's (1:00) NESCAC tourney ice hockey, a preseason lacrosse contest on the turf field, plus the normal ski crowd, means that hotels and restaurants will be crowded. The Middlebury Inn and the Marriot are full. There are motels that are likely to have some space - i.e. the Blue Spruce just south of town. If I were coming from Amherst or Williams I might stay in Rutland, 35 minutes away (South), plenty of hotels (just below Killington) and right on the way on Route 7.

[fpc85]

Thanks!

[nescac1]

Recruiting tidbits.  Great article on a 6'10 kid who has been able to succeed with only one arm -- amazing story.  The only school to give him an offer so far?  Pseudo-NESCAC school Hamilton:

http://virginiapreps.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=916421

Sounds like someone who is a good student obviously with impressive character and dedication.  I wonder if no other D-I schools come calling whether some other NESCAC schools will show interest.  I hope he doesn't discount D-III because in many ways this guy is what D-III is all about -- kids who have been overlooked by big-name schools for one reason or another, but ultimately go on to prove themselves at the college level. 

Lots of NESCAC kids as usual on this list:
http://www.newenglandrecruitingreport.com/prospects/

Interesting that some of the new coaches are doing pretty well; Bates already has four recruits and a few of whom look pretty solid.  Trinity has one strong recruit lined up -- I am guessing Tabb has earned the permanent job after the late season improvement and his proven recruiting ability.  Wesleyan has two strong recruits, including St. Jean, whose dad coached in the NBA ... look for Reilly to add a lot of talent over the next few years as he knows how to recruit and Wesleyan is an appealing destination as part of the Little Three, and a place where kids can get instant playing time and build their own basketball tradition under a proven coach.  Plus it has the most diverse and one of the largest student bodies of the NESCAC schools ...

Amherst as usual seems to be cleaning house, not only the three kids who play together on the above list, but a point guard as well:

http://www.newbritainherald.com/articles/2009/02/20/sports/doc499f701d7237b066163464.txt

Dual sport recruits can really help in NESCAC because if he counts as a soccer recruit, that is one more guy Hixon can get in for hoops ... with six strong frosh this year and already four and counting coming in, he has really reloaded after two relatively small recruiting classes (only two guys per year on the current active roster ...). 

[lefrakenstein]

Can NYU beat Brandeis? If Brandeis wins, would you say they are a lock. I would think no one wants to face them in first round of NCAA's. It would probably be a good match too because Brandeis has a lower region ranking.

I would not say Brandeis is a lock at all.  What I would say is that Amherst really really needs to win their tourney if they want a good shot at the NCAAs, because this weeks rankings wouldnt make me feel very good if I were an Amherst supporter.

Hugenerd, could you give a little insight into how you go about estimating who will or will not receive an at large bid? Does the NCAA typically go straight down the list of regional rankings when awarding Pool Cs? How do you predict how many bids a region will receive?

D3hoops had Amherst as its top on-the-bubble team about a week ago. Hard to understand which circumstances have changed since then.

Here is an overview:

The d3hoops predictions are based solely on quantitative factors described by pabegg on the Pool C board.  They take into account 2 of the 5 primary criteria (Record and OWP/OOWP), which are usually the most important.  However, they do not take into account head-to-head and results against regional opponents.

Conversely, the NCAA rankings are official.  The way Pool C's are selected is by taking the top team in each region (after Pool As and Pool Bs are eliminated) and ranking them 1-8.  The top team is then given a pool C bid and the next ranked team from that region is added to the top 8 and ranked amongst those 8.  Therefore, if they did that process today, Amherst would not even by under Pool C consideration until Brandeis was off of the board (given a Pool C bid) because they are ranked ahead of them in the same region.  Two teams from the same region are never considered for a Pool C spot at the same time.  Therefore, for Amherst to get a Pool C before Brandeis, they would need to be ranked higher than Brandeis in the NCAA regional rankings (the final ones calculated next Sunday which are not released to the public).  Therefore, if Brandeis wins this week I do not see how they would be ranked below Amherst on Sunday since they were ranked ahead of them this week.

Thanks a bunch. I'll start reading the Pool C page as well.

[Bucket]

If you're coming up for the games, stick around on Saturday, as NESCAC tourney action in men's ice hockey starts just after the Wms-Amherst hoop game ends (Midd-Hamilton), in the same complex, in what must be one of the nicest hockey arenas in the country.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that the Williams-Amherst hoops game and the Midd-Hamilton hockey game both start at the same time: 4 p.m. on Saturday.

[Bucket]

Lots of NESCAC kids as usual on this list:
http://www.newenglandrecruitingreport.com/prospects/

Interesting that some of the new coaches are doing pretty well; Bates already has four recruits and a few of whom look pretty solid.  Trinity has one strong recruit lined up -- I am guessing Tabb has earned the permanent job after the late season improvement and his proven recruiting ability.  Wesleyan has two strong recruits, including St. Jean, whose dad coached in the NBA ... look for Reilly to add a lot of talent over the next few years as he knows how to recruit and Wesleyan is an appealing destination as part of the Little Three, and a place where kids can get instant playing time and build their own basketball tradition under a proven coach.  Plus it has the most diverse and one of the largest student bodies of the NESCAC schools ...

Amherst as usual seems to be cleaning house, not only the three kids who play together on the above list, but a point guard as well:

http://www.newbritainherald.com/articles/2009/02/20/sports/doc499f701d7237b066163464.txt

Dual sport recruits can really help in NESCAC because if he counts as a soccer recruit, that is one more guy Hixon can get in for hoops ... with six strong frosh this year and already four and counting coming in, he has really reloaded after two relatively small recruiting classes (only two guys per year on the current active roster ...). 

My understanding is that Williams has a bead on a stud off-guard from Michigan who stands about 6'4" and is every bit as quick as Wang. Could be next year's starting backcourt for the Ephs.

[nescac1]

Hopefully you are right on the Michigan kid.  But I imagine no matter what, Rubin will be the starting 2 guard next year.  Still, the Ephs lose a lot of backcourt minutes to graduation, and badly need an impact recruit who can be a solid bench guy as a frosh and step into the line-up as a starter at the "2" after Rubin, Hardy and Schultz graduate ...

[walzy31]

Amherst as usual seems to be cleaning house, not only the three kids who play together on the above list, but a point guard as well:

http://www.newbritainherald.com/articles/2009/02/20/sports/doc499f701d7237b066163464.txt

Dual sport recruits can really help in NESCAC because if he counts as a soccer recruit, that is one more guy Hixon can get in for hoops ... with six strong frosh this year and already four and counting coming in, he has really reloaded after two relatively small recruiting classes (only two guys per year on the current active roster ...). 

Spencer Noon is going to be a Lord Jeff soccer player, not a basketball player. The kid scores a lot of goals.

At Amherst, it is possible to be a two-sport athlete, but soccer and basketball is a tough combination to pull off. One reason why is the fact that the seasons overlap by 4-8 weeks (this year the Amherst soccer team's season ended on December 5th. A member who would also be trying to play basketball would have missed all of hoops preseason and 5 games which is 20% of the season). Hixon has had a couple of two or three sport guys who played a fall sport, but over the last decade it has always been football (Salerno & Daoust). Football seasons have a known, hard-stop at the end of the season against Williams.

[nescac1]

Thanks Walzy, makes sense. 

[BankShotCharlie]

It is quite strange to think about Middlebury hosting the NESCAC Championships this weekend but quite honestly, the last time I was up there I was very impressed with the atmosphere and school spirit in Panther country.  Love the block M and would love to catch a Hockey game there sometime.  I'm pumped to watch some high quality hoops on a 2" by 3" screen this weekend baby!!

Just for the heck of it while we wait one more day, if the NESCAC were the Big Ten...

Amherst - Michigan (Standard Excellence)

Bates - Indiana (Bates' gym just screams Hoosiers)

Bowdoin - Wisconsin (Way up there in the frozen tundras of WI and ME these schools produce quality sports teams and are quite prestigious in the classroom)

Colby - Iowa (Two schools that tend to stay in the middle of the pack in athletics)

Conn College - Penn State (Blue, thats about it)

Hamilton - Northwestern (Do we even belong in this conference?)

Middlebury - Minnesota (Amazing hockey programs, staggered hoop seasons)

Trinity - Illinois (always recruits great athletes, but can't always put a winning team on the court/field)

Tufts - Purdue (Gross jerseys yet great SID's and student journalists)

Wesleyan - Michigan State (The 3rd wheel)

Williams - Ohio State (One was founded on a farming community and one is actually represented by a cow!)

Of course this is over a span of many years and many different factors.  Clearly open for debate.