MBB: NESCAC

[NESCAC2]

Horton is a kid from my hometown via Detroit, an athletic wing, averaged 23 ppg for Worcester State (just 2 ppg shy of averaging his age)

so i found out you are from michigan theherst2and4... so you agree with me that eric devendorf is one of the best college players in america right.

[NESCAC2]

also, to the person that increased my karma from -6 to -5, thank you.

[NESCAC2]

one more thing, it is a crime shultz from williams is only 3rd team. politics.

[NESCAC2]

"rumor has it middlebury is going to be pretty down next year" NESCAC2

Don't know about recruits, but can't see Middlebury as "pretty down" next year, though others may be pretty up.

The upside of Locke seems pretty high. 36 more blocks than the next guy, playing 22 minutes a game: he changes games. Will only get better. Sharry, a legitimate ROY possibility, will be a year older and stronger, familiar with the league and its demands. Davis came on by leaps and bounds (literally) this year and can only be better next year. Wholey will be a terrific all-round player. Edwards can play the point - was the back-up this year on those occasions (albeit rare) when Rudin was out. 

The secret weapon next year may be Coglan who had 31 (Union), 23 Bates), 19 (Colby) last year as a frosh, but couldn't crack the rotation this year, after early injuries. Maybe Kelleher will be back, after being out almost the whole year with a back problem: he's rugged (6'4") and shoots the three.

Without Rudin and his kamikaze style, we'll be different, and may not be 8-1, but "down"? I don't think so.

finally, old guy, i apologize. i was just reporting what i heard in the street. it sounds like they will be up from this year. how many recruits does wesleyan have coming in? rumor has it is more than one lineup worth.

[nescac1]

Well, speak of the devil, a lot of info on Wesleyan recruiting (as well as a few other NESCAC tidbits) here:

http://www.newenglandrecruitingreport.com/news/article/735/Commitment-CatchUp.php

I also heard that Wesleyan is bringing in a forward from Long Island who can shoot / score.  So if accurate that is already at least five guys.  I figured this would happen -- no way Reilly would leave a good situation at Bates unless he knew he would get support from admissions in recruiting, he is a proven coach who could recruit guys to Maine, which is probably a less appealing destination for a lot of recruits than Connecticut not far from Boston and NYC, and this year he could offer immediate playing time and the chance to rebuild a program essentially from scratch, plus the chance to play Williams and Amherst each twice per year in the little three.  Ameer Brown sounds especially interesting, you don't see guys at NESCAC schools often who get looked at by these type of programs:

http://hsnewyork.scout.com/2/684608.html

Wesleyan will be very young next year, but does get Kaminer back from injury and Mendell had a big frosh year.  Probably at least a year away but we could have a truly exciting little three rivalry for years to come. 

As a Williams fan, I really hope Maker can lock up a few guys in light of the large and talented classes Trinity, Amherst and Wesleyan have coming in already ... doesn't need a huge class numbers wise this year, but could really use at least one impact guy in the back-court. 

As for Midd, I think they will still be a top-three NESCAC and likely NCAA team next year, although certainly down a notch.  The big question is whether they can get perimeter scoring.  If Davis, Locke, and Sharry all make the improvements young big men usually do (and that Davis and Locke already made) you are talking about a D-I sized front-court (6'4, 6'7, 6'10) who are good athletes to boot, that should collectively average around 10 blocks per game and be able to score inside on anyone.  And Edwards is a great do it all guy in the back-court.  The real question is whether Wholey, Edwards, and Coughlan will keep defenses honest inside with perimeter shooting -- Wholey and Edwards haven't yet put up great shooting percentages, and Coughlan needs to recapture his frosh form.  The collective shooting percentage of those three from long range will have to dramatically improve.  If those three can keep defenses from packing it in, not many teams can match up with those three big guys inside, assuming, again, that they all continue to make strides on the offensive end to match their already impressive defensive prowess. 

[amh63]

On the subject of recruits, in an earlier post I ponder the need of a point guard recruit for Amherst.  There is a point guard from Ct. coming to Amherst.  However, as a wiser poster pointed out, he is also a very good soccer player and will play soccer at Amherst.  After looking at the video in a NE recruiting blog, the player seems to be quick and fearless and very good BB guard (no. 69? in CT).  Though the soccer season can be long if the team goes to post-season play,  the "muscle group" and condition needed for soccer is closer to BB than say for football...if one wants to play multi-sports.

[nescac1]

AMH63, Amherst does have Meehan for two more years, so it's hardly as if your point guard situation is desperate -- any recruit for next year would likely receive little P.T. until they are a junior in any event.  As for the soccer / basketball combo, it is certainly doable -- Dana Leary played both sports for Williams for two years, and he quit to focus on soccer (to the detriment of the hoops team, alas) because he was a legit pro prospect in that sport.  Walzy would know about Amherst soccer and he seems to think this guy is more of a soccer prospect, but perhaps he chose the D-III route so he is able to play both, something that wouldn't be an option in D-I obviously. 

[amh63]

nescac1,  Good points.  However as good as Meehan is and will be, he does need rest. There are many times when another guard  with good ball handling abilities are needed as you well know. M. Bradley did that for Amherst this year.  Wheeler is a great shooter and I wish he will be more of a penetrator and rebounder.  However, he is not great a ball handler. ( hope his parents will not "diss" me now.)  Even with Olsen last year,  Meehan got PT when Olsen needed a rest and when Olsen was pressured and double-teamed.  At the final 4's ,when other teams would double team Olsen, Amherst struggled.  When he handled the pressure and when he was fresh, Olsen would kill you.  Even two years ago, I thought Amherst would trail another player when Olsen would bring up the ball, to help in traps, and pressure situations.  With Meehan, this was often done.  Also, there is always a need for a good point guard around...in training and for situations, God forbid, in case of injuries.

[walzy31]

AMH63, Amherst does have Meehan for two more years, so it's hardly as if your point guard situation is desperate -- any recruit for next year would likely receive little P.T. until they are a junior in any event.  As for the soccer / basketball combo, it is certainly doable -- Dana Leary played both sports for Williams for two years, and he quit to focus on soccer (to the detriment of the hoops team, alas) because he was a legit pro prospect in that sport.  Walzy would know about Amherst soccer and he seems to think this guy is more of a soccer prospect, but perhaps he chose the D-III route so he is able to play both, something that wouldn't be an option in D-I obviously. 

Chief was National Player of the Year in Soccer his Senior year and I agree that he definitely would have helped the Williams hoops team had he played... but I think he made the right decision.

While playing Soccer AND Basketball is doable, it is difficult.
I already pointed out the pure schedule overlap of soccer's post-season and basketball's regular season. I will add color on why I see it as being difficult:

• A freshman gets to campus on Sunday for freshman orientation and fall sports begin on Monday.
  He goes to two and three-a-day soccer practices until classes start. During this period he forms bonds and friendships with the team.

• School starts and he goes to classes, goes to practice, eats and does his schoolwork. He does not have time to join the hoops team in the gym for the coachless pickup games that are played 2-4 times per week.

• He spends 2.5 months kicking, heading and touching a soccer ball with all parts of his body except his hands.

• The last two weekends of the soccer season (excluding a potential NCAA tourney berth) coincide with the first two weeks of basketball preseason (which are two and three-a-day practices/tryouts). While the freshman is practicing penalty kicks until the posts are no longer visible, the hoops guys are getting 100+ shots up per day in LeFrak. Should soccer make the NCAAs, he will be taking more PKs while the basketball team is working on quick-hitters and in-bounds plays with the full coaching staff.

• Whenever it is that soccer ends (at an unknown date with an unknown amount of mental drain or jubilation), the athlete joins the basketball team and is 3-4 months behind everyone else in shooting, chemistry on the court, familiarity with the offense and sets, and knowledge of his teammates' strengths and weaknesses.

• The kid theoretically should be in excellent conditioning by the end of soccer season, and should be able to maintain fitness for 90+ minutes. I think soccer puts you in a different kind of shape than the shape a hoops team wants their role players in who play 2-10 minutes per half.

• You are left with a very uphill battle to transition from kicking and heading... to dribbling, passing, shooting and rebounding.

I am not saying that it cannot be done. It just takes a pretty freak athlete to do it...and I would argue it takes even more freakish athleticism if he is a perimeter player (shooting repetition etc - no offense Chief).

I am also not building this difficult task up to try and justify anything personal. I didn't play basketball and never could have. If I didn't play soccer and ran with the basketball team for 3-4 months leading up the season, I  would have been easily and quickly cut on the 2nd day of preseason (being as half court shots during pregame warm-ups and knockout at halftime are my specialties).

[amh63]

Though this discussion goes no where really,  I do need to point out that you are definitely a single sport person.  There are a number of persons who have played multi-sports in high school well and continued on in college.  The points of practice and making friends, etc. going to college is somewhat thin.  Amherst has had a number of students that have done well in several sports.  There was a transfer from Harvard that became an All American level  player in three sports a number of years ago.  I have classmates that played both ways in football and also were starters in two other sports. One was even a math/physics major.  The present WBB team has a first year player that plays both soccer and BB.  It is indeed hard and requires dedication.  We just happen to live in an era of specialization.  One should not judge based on one's own limitation.

[lefrakenstein]

Though this discussion goes no where really,  I do need to point out that you are definitely a single sport person.  There are a number of persons who have played multi-sports in high school well and continued on in college.  The points of practice and making friends, etc. going to college is somewhat thin.  Amherst has had a number of students that have done well in several sports.  There was a transfer from Harvard that became an All American level  player in three sports a number of years ago.  I have classmates that played both ways in football and also were starters in two other sports. One was even a math/physics major.  The present WBB team has a first year player that plays both soccer and BB.  It is indeed hard and requires dedication.  We just happen to live in an era of specialization.  One should not judge based on one's own limitation.

I would say she (I forget her name) probably fits the description of the 'freak athlete' Walzy lists as his exception. All-american in 3 sports is pretty ridiculous.

[formerbant10]

While playing Soccer AND Basketball is doable, it is difficult.

I think this is the message Walzy is trying to get through.  It is doable, but difficult...as is playing 1 sport in college.  Doesn't mean it can't be done....and let's try not to belittle those who have achieved All America status in their chosen sport.

[amh63]

formerbat.,  thank you for the info on Walzy.  To Walzy, my appreciation for your achievement and dedication...for Amherst.  I guess the endpoint to this discussion is my selfish desire for the subject Amherst student to play both sports.  Who knows what he wants to do or achieve.  In the end it is his choices to make.  He may drop soccer for BB or decide he doesn't want to participate in either sports.  The fact that any admitted student in NESCAC does not have any obligation to participate in any activity is one of the reason the conference is great.  I had a frat. brother that decided he really didn't want to play football anymore.(He went out for crew).  He had played in high school because of the cheerleaders.  Since Amherst did not have any cheerleaders, ....why play .  The fact is, Div3, allows people to pursue muli-sports...as we all know.  It is not like the Ivies.  You are not asked to carry a lighter load when football season arrives.  (You can pick up the missed course during summer school.)  As a friend related to me, he was surprised when his daughter at Princeton was told to spend more effort in BB (i.e. carry a BB ball around with her.  The lady had choosen to play BB at Princeton vice Amherst when all the ivies wanted her.  She was very bright and her Amherst father could pay her way.

[walzy31]

Long seasons and a growing list of expectations from coaches and the programs are why you are seeing less and less of the two-sport Fall/Winter male athletes in the 'CAC. And yes, Harmeling would fall in the "freak" athlete category. She would also probably fall on the top 2 or 3 Amherst athletes of all-time list, but I never thought I would see the day where I typed her name in the NESCAC basketball forum...and for that I apologize to all.

A much more common mix is Soccer/Lacrosse or Football/Baseball. Not playing in consecutive seasons and being able to participate 100% in preseason practices and tryouts is a huge aid to those trying to double up.

I'm with you though Amh63, I hope this Connecticut point guard soccer recruit kid is a stud at both soccer and basketball and can contribute to both programs. And if he does try to play both, as FBant so eloquently highlighted for me: it will be difficult.

[old_hooper]

amh63 I wouldn't right off Carcieri.  He and Meehan could play together next year a lot of the time.  Very good defender, penetrates really well and strong.  His problem has been staying healthy.  I would not be surprised to see his roll much like Bradley this year.  Also have heard good things about Johnson.  Handles the ball really well for big guy and he will see valuable minutes next year at the 2.  The real hole for the Jeff's is to replace Basko and that will not be easy to do but they have a number guys that will want the chance to contribute.  We know Barrise can shoot like him.