MBB: NESCAC

[NESCAC2]

whoa way too much text for anybody to read.

please summarize into 2-3 brief bullet points.

[Pat Coleman]

Or break up into visually distinguishable paragraphs.

[amh63]

Sorry.  I was typing while reading a report.  I hope I have not underestimate the readers of this board.  Anyway, here is a re-write of my earlier post.

The schools in the NESCAC have sent out the admit letters and the second phase of "recruiting" begins.  Hope we will find out about the recruiting classes of the schools soon.  While waiting, here is some info that should ease the minds of those worried about the future of NESCAC sports.

In my opinion,  the new president of Williams will not change the direction of sports in the conference.  This is based on my read of a May 2002 report of the state of athletics at Amherst. 

Commissioned in 2000 by the president of the college (ex-president of Trinity), it contains data on sport teams for every school in NESCAC.  It includes size of squads, number of coaches, trainers, number of teams both JV and club teams.  It includes over a ten year period, the academic performance of team members and appropriate academic qualifications.

It noted that the conference presidents that determined during the full entrance of teams to post-season play also limited the size of the football teams to 75 players.  Teams at Amherst, Williams, and Trinity that had 80 plus members would now have to "cut" players in order to make conference play more even.

The presidents of the "little three"- Amherst, Williams and Wesleyan went one step further.  They reduced the number of football admits/slots from 20/class to 14. 

The academic qualities of admitted athletes and their class performance was on average insignificant from the general student population.  The major complaints dealt primarily with the football and male hockey players.  These large squads, did not mingle with the other students enough.  They spent too much time together.  These students were "underachievers" in class.  My interpretation of this, based on a short program conducted while I was in college, is that the students in question were not performing up to their abilities based on their academic numbers.

The president of Williams may not be the "white Knight" of conference sports as many think.

[Mr. Ypsi]

amh63,

That does make reading easier.  But I would have thought NESCAC folks would have no reading comprehension problems regardless!

(Perhaps you should post in Latin to test my hypothesis? )

[Old Guy]

NESCAC initially had no provision for post-season play, and no league standings - which I thought was absurd.

Then the presidents agreed to allow post-season play if the tournament wrapped up in one weekend. Therefore, some teams wound up being ECAC champs.

Then, the Presidents allowed an expansion of post-season play for teams that qualified for the NCAAs.

Then the league instituted a league (NESCAC) championship and standings - which I thought was great, and still do.

I think I have that sequence right.

Now we have NESCAC tournament and NCAA participation for the league champs, and sometimes 2 or 3 other teams. We've come pretty far from the original principles.

I'm officially ambivalent about NCAA post-season play, and not generally a snob about these things. Two years ago, students in my class in the spring from the men's and women's lacrosse teams, the baseball team, track, water polo (!), tennis, and rugby teams all missed my final exam.

Especially in the spring, extended post-season play genuinely distracts students from their academic obligations and identities, and compromises their performance in the classroom.

I have no illusions about whether students would prefer to play in a national championship tournament - or attend my class, nor would I argue that they would be better off coming to my class (I was an athlete once) than playing in a big game against a worthy opponent perhaps far away, but I think these arguments miss the point. What is NESCAC about?

I realize that I have crowed about the Panther hoopers making the NCAA tournament this year and last, but I guess my point overall is that these discussions about post-season play (NCAAs) are valid. 

[amh63]

Mr. Ypsi,
  Would like to accommodate you.  However, I never took Latin in school.  Did take french in college.  Since I was a technical type, I did pick up some Greek in grad. school at MIT.  Formulas, equations and programming requires knowledge of Greek to a degree.  I will look into seeing about a machine/software translator or having my daughter make the posting.  Being a classics major in college, she can do it in Latin or Greek.   I am sure it will get few reads and lots of complaints.  I will probably get many minus karma points.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Mr. Ypsi,
  Would like to accommodate you.  However, I never took Latin in school.  Did take french in college.  Since I was a technical type, I did pick up some Greek in grad. school at MIT.  Formulas, equations and programming requires knowledge of Greek to a degree.  I will look into seeing about a machine/software translator or having my daughter make the posting.  Being a classics major in college, she can do it in Latin or Greek.   I am sure it will get few reads and lots of complaints.  I will probably get many minus karma points.

Fear not, I probably wouldn't understand it if you did!  I might get the gist of it in Latin, Greek, Spanish, or French, but only in German would I have even a fighting chance of actually comprehending it.  (Heck, I don't always fully comprehend posts in English. )

[senatorfrost]

 
Sum up your history
Clear up a mystery

Then if you refrain
he is at you again
for he likes to get value for money.

Beware of Greeks bearing gifts.

I do enjoy basketball.

[NESCAC2]

Best fan sign of the 08-09 season (Spotted at Williams/Bates and held by a fine ass biddie with a firm lil booty, a cute smile, and great lips): We Master Bates

I leave you with a comparison: James Wang is the d3 version of Patty Mills.
Both are Australian. Both are pgs. Both have crazy-layup-ability. Both have bounce like kangaroos. Both like to fist pump to look at their biceps.

Gentlemen, what is the word on NESCAC players going overseas?

[NESCAC2]

Sum up your history
Clear up a mystery

Then if you refrain
he is at you again
for he likes to get value for money.

Beware of Greeks bearing gifts.

I do enjoy basketball.

i should have addressed this in my previous post, but senatorfrost, please refrain from posting any poetry. this is a men's blogging board about men's basketball written by men. although this is a serious matter, i am certain it was an honest mistake, and i will no longer need to police this aspect of the board.

[amh63]

Old Guy
  Thanks for the info.  Your comments remind me of fond memories of seeing senior teachers in the stands while their students were on the "playing field.  There is a statue recently placed by the "freshmen quad" at Amherst of Robert Frost.  It is placed partly to face the R. Frost Library and partly to face the baseball diamond below Memorial Hill.  Robert Frost in his teaching days at Amherst was frequently seen in the stands at baseball contests, watching his students play and chatting with fellow teachers.

Your concerns about the conference is a real one.  I recall chatting with a friend who was the father of a star pitcher on the Amherst team.  The team had gone to the NCAA the previous year.  Several key players did not play in the post season games since they were seniors and wanted to attend graduation.  The star pitcher's father stated that his son, if he had the choice, would probably elect to stay with his team.  During the recent post-season run by NESCAC teams, many of the schools were on Spring break.  It is in the Spring where sports like baseball may run past graduation, where seniors are affected greatly, etc.  I do not know if there is a NESCAC general policy for Spring sports.  This is one area that needs to be considered.  Is there one at Trinity.?...the baseball team went far in the Ncaa last year.

[daoustian]

The running debate on whether to limit postseason play usually happens at the level of administrators/professors.  That seems to be a backwards way of looking at it -- the people affected by longer seasons are the student-athletes.  Find a way to survey them accurately and see if they dislike the current system.  I'm guessing that they don't have a problem with it and the anti post-season factions are taking ivory tower positions. 

The other thing that has amused me constantly is that the loudest voices to limit postseason participation tend to come from the schools with the smallest amount of postseason participation who are least affected by these rules.  Until Amherst/Williams/Middlebury (with no disrespect intended to the rest of the conference) come out en masse against NCAA participation, it's a bit of a strange debate. 

I've always thought that football limitations could be far more severe and would probably end much of the conversation around campuses (where football players, due to their physical size, are a more noteable presence around campus and in class -- athletes in other sports tend to blend in more easily).  NESCAC Football has zero postseason play and zero non-conference play.  Just make a conference rule that football teams are capped at having, say, 50 players, and further limit the number of "tips" in admissions.  Who cares if freshmen have to play -- they'd play other NESCAC teams with the same problem. 

[ephoops]

The president of Williams may not be the "white Knight" of conference sports as many think.

Do not underestimate Morty Schapiro's influence regarding the preservation of post-season NCAA play by the NESCAC. 

The other thing that has amused me constantly is that the loudest voices to limit postseason participation tend to come from the schools with the smallest amount of postseason participation who are least affected by these rules.  Until Amherst/Williams/Middlebury (with no disrespect intended to the rest of the conference) come out en masse against NCAA participation, it's a bit of a strange debate. 
 

The issue is that when you have a majority of conference members that do not enjoy the same post-season success as Williams, Amherst and Middlebury, it tends to create resentment by these schools.  The result is bias against post-season play by these institutions.

[BankShotCharlie]

did you pick wash u to win it all???

dman,

Wash U is much better than any of the other teams.  They are as good this year as last year and look what they did to a very good Amherst team last year.  Mark Edwards is an outstanding coach who recruits and gets high character kids.

Other players score more points, but just watch Tyler Nading and see what he brings to the game--it's like a clinic in team basketball.  He is the ultimate selfless player who does all the little things that bring this team success.  Caution---you don't really realize how good he is unless you keep your eye on him all the time to observe things he does on defense and on offense away from the ball.  Nading is a tenacious defender and an excellent rebounder.  He boxes out on the boards, he anticipates defensively.  On the other end he is a great passer, sets flawless screens and can score when he has to.  The ultimate team player and literally a coach on the floor.  He is an engineering major with a high GPA and a very high basketball IQ.  One of the best.

I hope he had a fun time playing chess with his teammates to celebrate!

[lefrakenstein]

I've always thought that football limitations could be far more severe and would probably end much of the conversation around campuses (where football players, due to their physical size, are a more noteable presence around campus and in class -- athletes in other sports tend to blend in more easily).  NESCAC Football has zero postseason play and zero non-conference play.  Just make a conference rule that football teams are capped at having, say, 50 players, and further limit the number of "tips" in admissions.  Who cares if freshmen have to play -- they'd play other NESCAC teams with the same problem. 

That's a great idea. It's always seemed really wasteful to me that such a high percentage of football recruits that Amherst brings in end up getting cut before they ever really get to play. There is no way that those spots wouldn't be better spent on smarter kids that are more likely to contribute in other ways. Not that there aren't really smart and multi-talented kids recruited to play football, but what is a "tip" if not a pass to take a football player over an otherwise more qualified applicant?