MBB: NESCAC

[frank uible]

Wouldn't it be better to refuse to comply with the NESCAC agreement to adhere to a 75 player limit, thereby offering the possibility of more participatory opportunity for more students? Shouldn't athletics in NESCAC be primarily about participation? If so, then what is the desirability of any conspiracy among the colleges to limit? Let each college decide what limit, if any, applies to it alone but not to others?

[Ralph Turner]

The running debate on whether to limit postseason play usually happens at the level of administrators/professors.  That seems to be a backwards way of looking at it -- the people affected by longer seasons are the student-athletes.  Find a way to survey them accurately and see if they dislike the current system.  I'm guessing that they don't have a problem with it and the anti post-season factions are taking ivory tower positions. 

The other thing that has amused me constantly is that the loudest voices to limit postseason participation tend to come from the schools with the smallest amount of postseason participation who are least affected by these rules.  Until Amherst/Williams/Middlebury (with no disrespect intended to the rest of the conference) come out en masse against NCAA participation, it's a bit of a strange debate. 

I've always thought that football limitations could be far more severe and would probably end much of the conversation around campuses (where football players, due to their physical size, are a more noteable presence around campus and in class -- athletes in other sports tend to blend in more easily).  NESCAC Football has zero postseason play and zero non-conference play.  Just make a conference rule that football teams are capped at having, say, 50 players, and further limit the number of "tips" in admissions.  Who cares if freshmen have to play -- they'd play other NESCAC teams with the same problem. 

One rule change in football would solve many of those problems.

Please look at the school albums from the Single-platoon era of football.  Most of those rosters seldom had more than 30 players.

Voila!

The NESCAC could declare the National Collegiate Single Platoon Football Association Champion. 

Those single platoon era football players were not nearly as big as the linemen that we have in the current 2-platoon style of play.

You have also solved the problem of student-athletes who are much larger than their classmates.

[frank uible]

Couple limited substitution (single platoon) football with elimination of the permissibility of arm extension in blocking, and you would have an interesting (to the hard core fan), old fashioned brand of football played by smaller, more versatile (but less specialized) and better conditioned men - kind of like the sprint footbal  currently played by Army, Navy, Penn, Princeton, etc..

[La Verdad]

You have also solved the problem of student-athletes who are much larger than their classmates.

On behalf of all students that are much larger than their classmates...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NvgLkuEtkA

You're obviously kidding about that being a problem, right?

[amh63]

BB news must be slow !  The posters are lively I see.  Back to football again.

I have a classmate that lives in the UK.  He tries to get back for the Homecoming game each year.  He does make it for the Williams game.  He was a starting fullback his last two years I believe.  He is always amazed at the size of players today.  He stated that he was never heavier than 180 pounds wet. He is lighter today. He played on teams when the players played both ways.  One must remember that during those days, there were no freshmen playing.  Freshmen teams prevailed and often got beat by good prep school teams.  There were some rather bad players on the freshmen teams in those days.  They got to participate and to earn their class "letters".

[amh63]

Sprint football!  Interesting.  I seemed to recall that there was a weight limit on those squads back in the 50-60's...i.e. 155lbs or so at the Naval Academy.  I also recall that the Navy teams would sometime draw players from the "sprint team". 

Back in the 60's the houses at Harvard would have football squads.  Though rare, the Harvard coaches would at times bring a player from those house teams.  Usually for backfield positions when injuries on the varsity were high.

[frank uible]

There remains a weight limit in sprint football although now in the 170s. Sprint football plays under current NCAA rules, but the weight limit gives it some similarity to old time, one platoon football.

[NESCAC2]

Sprint football!  Interesting.  I seemed to recall that there was a weight limit on those squads back in the 50-60's...i.e. 155lbs or so at the Naval Academy.  I also recall that the Navy teams would sometime draw players from the "sprint team". 

Back in the 60's the houses at Harvard would have football squads.  Though rare, the Harvard coaches would at times bring a player from those house teams.  Usually for backfield positions when injuries on the varsity were high.

i dont mean to be rude amh63, but aside from this uble character, nobody cares about this. please refrain from posting for one week. you are on punishment.

[frank uible]

May I be put on punishment?

[amh63]

NESCAC2,
  Boy are you sensitive.  Can't you let two old folks talk about the good old days while we wait for some interesting BB info from knowledgeable posters such as you.  I do not take punishment well.  Has a week gone by?

[ac08]

Congrats to Brian Baskauskas and Ben Rudin for their (D3 hoops) All American recognition.

[NESCAC2]

May I be put on punishment?

haha that question wreaks of softness. and ublie! stop giving me negative karma. haha i know its you. you d3hoops poster you.

[NESCAC2]

NESCAC2,
  Boy are you sensitive.  Can't you let two old folks talk about the good old days while we wait for some interesting BB info from knowledgeable posters such as you.  I do not take punishment well.  Has a week gone by?

haha oh my goodness amh63, you emailed me and apologized privately and now you are on here talking reckless. thats not very tough. for the public record, your punishment was revoked when you emailed me and said you were sorry. therefore you were allowed to post before a week's time had passed.

[Old Guy]

"That seems to be a backwards way of looking at it -- the people affected by longer seasons are the student-athletes.  Find a way to survey them accurately and see if they dislike the current system.  I'm guessing that they don't have a problem with it and the anti post-season factions are taking ivory tower positions. " (Daoustian)

I wouldn't expect any athletes to take a position against NCAA post-season play, nor would I want them to necessarily. They're athletes, and naturally want to test themselves against the best. I'm just observing that the NCAA tournament makes for a very long season, and does in fact detract from the academic priority. Ironically, while NESCAC does stand for New England Small College ATHLETIC Conference, its identity and lifeblood is not from athletics, but rather from a rigorous academic program. I live in the real world, and believe that this genie will not go back in the bottle. I never miss a tournament game. Mostly, I wanted to point out it's not a ridiculous discussion.

[ephoops]

Old Guy

It's my guess that a majority of the faculty at Midd believe that post season NCAA participation detracts from academic priorities.  In fact, IMO it's likely that a majority of the faculty at all NESCAC schools believes that post season NCAA play detracts from academics.  It's within this context that the strong position that Morty Schapiro and certain other NESCAC presidents have taken in support of post season play should be commended.

My concern is that the next president of Williams may not share Morty's commitment to athletics and as a result, the genie may be stuffed back into the bottle (albeit, possibly kicking and screaming) at some point in the future.  And that is an event that the faculty at most (if not all) NESCAC schools would not mind paying the price of admission.