MBB: NESCAC

[Rick Vaughn]

No chance that Schultz/Rubin/Geoghegan is even close to Crotty/Coffin/Abba.  Abba and Rubin are so far apart it's a joke.  Geoghegan could hang with Coffin, but Coffin could step out and hit the 15-foot jumper consistently while I have not seen that from Big Joe yet. 

It's hard to compare Schultz and Crotty because they play different positions, but there if you say you would rather have Schultz over Crotty then you never saw Crotty play.  Crotty was the best point guard in the country, and while Schultz is a great all around player, but not the best player in the country at his position.

[ephoops]

So, with Reilly's hiring at Wes, it looks like the Cards will be competitive in basketball again.

However, Wesleyan is still terrible at most sports. Wouldn't it be better if the Little Three could swap Wesleyan for Middlebury?

Middlebury has better teams, seems to have a very similar school culture to Amherst and Williams, and is geographically comprably close, if not closer. Woudln't that make for a better rivalry?

I would... 

There's obviously a lot of history and tradition in the Little Three.  However, with Midd's emergence as an academic and athletic force, I would argue that the athletes / teams at Williams and Amherst get more pumped up for a game against Midd than they do for a game against Wes.

[ephoops]

IMO, Paulsen's offense works best when he has the following type of personnel:

A point guard who can penetrate and make good decisions with the ball.  He needs to be able to create his own shot as well.

A center / post player who commands the respect of the defense when he receives the ball in the post.   

Wing players who can shoot the "3".

Any offense should work pretty well when you have players with those types of offensive skills - right??




haha i would normally agree with you, but i think it comes down to the fact that it takes a great coach to put these types of players in the position to be great. thats what sets paulsen apart and helped him win multiple championships....

IMO, Crotty would have been a star whether he played for Sheehy, Maker, Tong, Shaw or even Bob Peck.  He was that talented at the D-3 level.

Abba was the type of player who was really well suited for Paulsen's offensive and defensive schemes.  Paulsen got the most out of his abilities and talents.  I'm not sure he would have been as successful playing for another coach.

Coffin really blossomed under Paulsen.  He didn't do much in his freshman year and for the first half of his sophomore season.  However, from the second half of his sophomore season up to the loss to UW-SP in the finals in Salem in his senior year, he was one of, if not the best, big man in D-3.  Paulsen was responsible for a big part of his development (though not all).

As for the comparison between Crotty / Coffin / Abba and Schultz / Geohegan / Rubin, I'll defer to Bill Parcells who said: "You are what your record says you are."   The C/C/A trio put together back-to-back 30 win seasons, a national championship and a runner up finish.  If the trio of S/G/R can put up close to 30 wins and get to Salem next season, then I will consider them comparable.

[NESCAC2]

No chance that Schultz/Rubin/Geoghegan is even close to Crotty/Coffin/Abba.  Abba and Rubin are so far apart it's a joke.  Geoghegan could hang with Coffin, but Coffin could step out and hit the 15-foot jumper consistently while I have not seen that from Big Joe yet. 

It's hard to compare Schultz and Crotty because they play different positions, but there if you say you would rather have Schultz over Crotty then you never saw Crotty play.  Crotty was the best point guard in the country, and while Schultz is a great all around player, but not the best player in the country at his position.

haha on the contrary, rick, i saw crotty play many times. he was a solid d3 player, but its hard to dispute the fact that his "success" was buttressed by the offensive and defensive system set in place by paulsen.

he couldn't defend. he wasn't quick enough or big enough to be a scorer or a threat. people had to guard everyone else, which allowed him to fall through the cracks.

since we're on the topic, dave paulsen's genius was really on full display with crotty. he has one of the only systems that can effectively hide shorter/slower point guards. basically, a good guard in that system makes few turnovers and hits open shots. this catered perfectly to crotty's skillset.

paulsen's system enables/promotes the success of the others on the floor...who, in turn, make him look better.  that's how you have players become all-conference like crotty and coffin.

[NESCAC2]

did zak ray or rob stockwell ever go play overseas?

it sure would be nice to have somebody make a spreadsheet that had every nescac player that played overseas, what teams, and the statistics that the player put up. i nominate walzy.

[nescac1]

Crotty was a lot better than you gave him credit for, NESCAC2.  He was not overwhelmingly fast or strong, but he was quick enough to penetrate and play credible defense, obviously a great shooter who could get off his shot very quickly, had incredible floor vision and passing ability, hit his foul shots, was a steady ball-handler, and had great stamina.   Not the flashiest player but I am not sure you can ask that much more out of a point guard.  The system certainly helped him, but he was a great player in all events.  As for Coffin, I will buy that Paulsen helped him develop, but by the time he WAS fully developed as a player, he would have been a star on any D-III team in the country.  Geogheghan was a lot better as a frosh / soph than Coffin, which is why there were such high hopes for him; we'll have to see if all the various injuries and time away will set him back or he will recover to have a huge senior year in a league that has very few big guys who can match up with his size, strength and ability.   

[lefrakenstein]

did zak ray or rob stockwell ever go play overseas?

it sure would be nice to have somebody make a spreadsheet that had every nescac player that played overseas, what teams, and the statistics that the player put up. i nominate walzy.

I have tried to go find stats in the German league for the Amherst players that graduated last year. Not easy to find...

[Hugenerd]

This page has all the former Amherst players currently playing in Europe. 

http://www.usbasket.com/team.asp?Cntry=USA&Team=2966&Page=4

Some players teams report stats (and you can find them on the player profile page or the team page) and some teams dont report them (for example Olson's team does not link stats).  Kevin Hopkins, for example, has his stats listed on his profile page:

http://www.eurobasket.com/player.asp?Cntry=GER&PlayerID=114028

[ac08]

... i am a little surprise the general sentiment of the board isn't outrage towrads the geohegan/coffin comparison.

[Marty Peretz]

Hixon rounds out his recruiting class with a local kid.

http://gazettenet.com/2009/03/31/exdevil-play-amherst

[ephoops]

Hixon rounds out his recruiting class with a local kid.

http://gazettenet.com/2009/03/31/exdevil-play-amherst

He doesn't rebuild, he reloads...

[frank uible]

Tom Parker reloads - Hixon pulls the trigger.

[fpc85]

Tom Parker reloads - Hixon pulls the trigger.

AMHERST "reloads" b/c of many reasons other than Hixon and Tom.

[lefrakenstein]

I'm hoping the 3 Suffield kids ranked quite low even by d3 standards on newenglandrecruiting report, plus this new 'cagey' kid who hadn't played competitive b-ball for 2 years prior to this year are not the end of Hixon's recruiting class.

I'm not sure that would be considered 'reloading'.

Amherst's recuriting classes between '09 and '11 were not especially impressive in terms of depth. Until '08 it seemed like the model was 1 superstar and 1 effective sidekick per class. Then '08 was amazing... and then the recruiting fell off to 1 contributor a year for awhile...

'03 - Zieja, Faulkner, Fitzsimmons
'04 - Harper, Donovan
'05 - Schiel, Lee
'06 - Bedford, Casnocha
'07 - Wheeler, McLaughlin
'08 - Olson, Hopkins, Jones, Walters (not including Goldsmith b/c he didn't start, and got hurt, but he could have been a star in a shallower class)
'09 - Baskauskas
'10 - Wheeler
'11 - Meehan
'12 - Waller, Holmes (hopefully others)

Looking at that list, it seems like '09 - '11 were far from Amherst's typical reloading, they were actually pretty weak classes with the exception of their marquee recruit. Now, injuries and the shadow cast by the class of '08 probably had a lot to do with that, but the fact remains that the team could have really used one or two more solid experienced contributors last year.

Hopefully the incoming class will throw up its heros too... still haven't heard anything about the perennial highly-hyped west coast recruit.

[nescac1]

First, to respond to an older post re: outrage vs. Geoghegan v. Coffin, it is obviously outrageous to say Geoghegan has accomplished anything close to Coffin.  The comparison is, Geoghegan was better as a frosh and a sophomore (granted, Coffin improved by leaps and bounds from soph to junior year); his junior year was essentially lost to a series of three injuries (one pre-season), so who knows.  I'd say he has the talent and potential to equal Coffin as a senior if he continues to improve, but potential and actual production are two very, very different things. 

As for Amherst reloading, speak of the devil, you may have your answer, as this kid is now listed as an Amherst recruit on the new england page:

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=57139&season=2009

Sounds like a stellar recruit to me.  Amherst is quite loaded at the "five" with the two incoming frosh, Holmes, Bennett, and Fugett if he returns.  Something will have to give in terms of playing time over the next few years ...

As for the class of 11, you should have one four year and two three year starters (Barrisse) plus a guy who will likely start eventually (Johnson) in that group -- I'd say that is a loaded class along the likes of '03 and '08. 

Still waiting on official word on Williams recruits, although supposedly there are some!   Gonna be tough to top the groups Trinity, Wes and Amherst are bringing in though ...