MBB: NESCAC

[lefrakenstein]

...Still holding out hope for a late Kurt Bennett surge too... (Although I wish Holmes and Bennett would work on their free throws. If there was ever an opportunity for the revival of the Rick Barry it's Kurt Bennett)

I recall that Bennett was probably the most hyped recruit in the history of this board when he was coming out of high school...

What are the issues with him???

I'm really not sure how the coaching staff ever got so high on him. He definitely has the potential to be a nice player, but the superlatives heaped on him were ridiculous. Watching him play, I just don't see what they saw, but then often times players are very different in practice.



http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090401

Another Bill Simmons NESCAC name-drop today:

"Hell, I'd even give money [to Holy Cross, his alma mater] if we embraced academics even more and moved to the NESCAC. But staying in Sports No-Man's-Land? No way."

[lefrakenstein]

Stay tuned for another name that is likely coming to Amherst and David Hixson

I can't actually tell if this is a sarcastic comment mocking the amherst-focus of this board, or if you are actually holding out on info. I hope its the latter!

[lefrakenstein]

Amherst narrowly leads the current Director's Cup standings at the end of the winter season:
http://www.nacda.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/nacda/sports/directorscup/auto_pdf/D3April2

However, Williams will undoubtedly come back with the deadly tri-fecta of mens' and womens' golf and womens' rowing. (Williams wins the women's rowing pretty much every year and gets 100 points for that--the same value as a men's basketball championship--despite the fact that only 10-15 teams compete) Amherst barely bothers to field mens' or womens' golf teams (one year the womens' golf team was literally one woman) and doesn't field a varsity rowing team.

Tennis should be competitive for both genders this year, and lax should even out (their men's team is good, our women's team is good), but the 200-300 point edge from the 3 aforementioned sports will put Williams over the edge again.

[nescac1]

Without a doubt, Williams would not win every Director's Cup (which tends to reward participation more than winning titles in just a few sports) without such a wide array of successful varsity sports (Williams also get points in Wrestling and Skiing most years, two teams Amherst does not field, both of which definitely feature a number of recruited athletes).  Then again, Amherst and Williams get the same number of total athletic recruiting slots, which Williams has to disperse more broadly across the additional sports ... meaning Amherst can, for example, bring in a total of 12-13 (!) men's hoops recruits over the past two years ...

[lefrakenstein]

Without a doubt, Williams would not win every Director's Cup (which tends to reward participation more than winning titles in just a few sports) without such a wide array of successful varsity sports (Williams also get points in Wrestling and Skiing most years, two teams Amherst does not field, both of which definitely feature a number of recruited athletes).  Then again, Amherst and Williams get the same number of total athletic recruiting slots, which Williams has to disperse more broadly across the additional sports ... meaning Amherst can, for example, bring in a total of 12-13 (!) men's hoops recruits over the past two years ...

The point about the spreading of recruits is very astute. However, I wonder how many recruits the skiing/golf/wrestling/rowing teams really take up.

I know for instance, that when our womens' club rowing team rows against the Ephs in 4s, that it is very competitive and we even win occasionally. I doubt that would be the case if the Williams team had recruited athletes. I don't know why we refuse to row 8's and compete in the NCAA... but that's another story.

In any case, I doubt those sports account for more than a handful of recruits every 4 years, but they rack up a considerable amount of Director's Cup points.

It's a gripe for Amherst fans, but you have to hand it to Williams, that strategy has helped them own the Director's Cup and all of the positive publicity for the school that comes with it.

Also as a side note, I'm pumped for the 150th anniversary of the inaugral Amherst-Williams baseball game this weekend. I hear that they are going to have a team chess match beforehand just as they did 150 years ago. Hilariously nerdy! Unlike 150 years ago, the winning team will not receive a slave from the losing team...

[walzy31]

Without a doubt, Williams would not win every Director's Cup (which tends to reward participation more than winning titles in just a few sports) without such a wide array of successful varsity sports (Williams also get points in Wrestling and Skiing most years, two teams Amherst does not field, both of which definitely feature a number of recruited athletes).  Then again, Amherst and Williams get the same number of total athletic recruiting slots, which Williams has to disperse more broadly across the additional sports ... meaning Amherst can, for example, bring in a total of 12-13 (!) men's hoops recruits over the past two years ...

I'd rather lose the Director's cup (which I am not slighting and is a very prestigious honor to win each year) and beat Williams in Men's Basketball and Men's Soccer each year.
Keep the hoops recruits flowing at the expense of Amherst's nonexistent rowing, skiing and wrestling programs.

[nescac1]

I figured as much -- and while I wouldn't call for the abolition of those sports at Williams, I certainly wouldn't mind seeing a higher percentage of tips allocated to sports that make for great campus events attended by a large portion of the student body (basically, basketball and football, and to some extent soccer; fortunately Williams like Amherst has 14 tips per year in football I believe, but I know Paulsen was unable to get more then 1-2 big recruits per year, and  alas I have no reason to believe things have changed for Maker)

[amh63]

nescac1,
   I agree that the number of football tips for Amherst and Williams and Wes. are the same as deemed by the presidents of the schools.  However, are you sure that the total "tips" are the same?  Maybe the same percentage.  Over the years, both schools have about the same percentage of student body athletic participation.  However, Williams is about 500 students larger.  Being such, they have more varsity type students leading to greater depth on many teams.  One clear example is the swim teams.  The women's team in dual/NESCAC meets get beat by Williams.  However, in the NCAA, except for this year, Amherst scores higher with fewer top swimmers.

With respect to rowing, Amherst has always had club teams as far back as the 60's.  They would often enter 8's when they had the participants around.  In my senior year, my frat. had four rowers and the cox on the varsity eight that did quite well in meets out west and along the east coast.

With regards to wrestling, Amherst has hired a wresting coach and has started a program.  It is at the club level now but a number of football players who wrestled in high school  did very well at a number of meets.  Two senior members reached All-American status in one org.  Back to the future!

[nescac1]

All three have 66 tips total.  Some other NESCAC schools have more. 

[La Verdad]

Amherst barely bothers to field mens' or womens' golf teams

And check out the clowns they end up with as a result...

https://www.amherst.edu/athletics/teams/fall/golf-m/roster

Looking at the roster, I'd say that the men's golf team has benifited from tips just about as much as some other sports, no?

[lefrakenstein]

Hmm, there are definitely more people on those teams than I remember from my day, but I'm not sure they're any better.

Their results from last year - 11th of 11 at one tourny, 20th of 23 at another, 7th of 10 NESCAC teams - do not seem to suggest that a lot of tips are going on.

I know they got a lot of walkons and I'm pretty certain at least 2 of the players on that list -- Bradley and Wong -- were recruited for their skills at a different sport.

Also, I think if the Athletic Department were serious about competing in golf, they would hire a coach who was focused only on the golf team, rather than letting Arena and Mills run it.

[La Verdad]

Hmm, there are definitely more people on those teams than I remember from my day, but I'm not sure they're any better.

Their results from last year - 11th of 11 at one tourny, 20th of 23 at another, 7th of 10 NESCAC teams - do not seem to suggest that a lot of tips are going on.

I know they got a lot of walkons and I'm pretty certain at least 2 of the players on that list -- Bradley and Wong -- were recruited for their skills at a different sport.

Also, I think if the Athletic Department were serious about competing in golf, they would hire a coach who was focused only on the golf team, rather than letting Arena and Mills run it.

Ya.  I was kidding.  I doubt that Amherst Golf takes itself very seriously; just look at the roster photos of Marcus and Glenn.

[JustAFan]

A few Boston Herald all-scholastics are headed to the NESCAC this fall:

MARK BRUST

DUXBURY The 6-foot-1 senior guard averaged 25.7 points a game in leading the Green Dragons to a 19-3 record and a Patriot League title. Brust will attend Bates College.

PETER LYNCH

WESTFORD ACADEMY A four-year varsity performer, the 6-foot-6 senior forward leaves Westford Academy as the school's all-time leading scorer with 1,219 points. Lynch will attend Middlebury College in the fall.

MARCUS MCDERMOTT

MILTON The 6-foot senior guard was the MVP of the Bay State Herget after averaging 17.7 points, 6.2 assists and 4.8 rebounds a game. McDermott is looking at Babson, Northeastern, Tufts, UMass and Brandeis.

Link:  http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/high_school/general/view/2009_04_03_Winter_All-Scholastics:_Boys_Hoop:_The_Herald_presents_our_EMass_stars/srvc=sports&position=also

[remsleep]

Who has more tips than  the Little Three?   

Also, does anyone else agree with me that commentary about the tips that rowing and swimming may or may not receive are excruciating to read about.  Ask Pat if he will start a D3 Crew site.....otherwise references to this stuff just extends the NESCAC stereotype of somehow being trapped within an F. Scott Fitzgerald novel!

[jumpshot]

Williams College's approach to admissions and athletics differs significantly from that of Amherst. According to Amherst alums, Amherst's General Manager and Director of Admissions believes in "marketing" Amherst nationally as an institution through "marquee sports" such as basketball with a near-term goal of winning the Directors' Cup since Williams' ten consecutive awards greatly irritates Amherst people. Hence, the special situation in men's basketball, and elevation in women's basketball, women's hockey, etc., with "tips" allocated across fewer teams.

Conversely, Williams made a decision over a decade ago to have an athletic department in which coaches are members of the faculty and to support all 32 teams, 16 junior varsity teams, and eight club teams on behalf of students equally.

Apparently due to the fragile financial situation at Amherst descibed on their website, Amherst has decided to admit an additional 45 students as a source of revenue each year for the next four years for a total of 180 or about 12% more  students, also adding to its athletic capacity.

Both Williams and Amherst graduate leaders who change the world. Right now there are different motivations, pressures, and cultures.