MBB: NESCAC

[senatorfrost]

 Toad-From all I have heard I don't doubt Sheehy deserves a place. He sounds like he could have played maybe mid level D1 back then. I'm talking about when he was in college-not years after when he may have indeed been good enough to play in NBA.
 Ernie D is a perfect example of what I am saying. Skill wise, there probably aren't too many players today who are as skilled as he was-the problem would be he simply couldn't keep up if he were around today. To sum things up in a NESCAC way-There is no way I will ever believe that Sheehy or Rehnquist were better than Nogelo-Were they better for THEIR day? If folks say so I'm more than willing to believe that.

[frank uible]

Where does Ditka fit into this?

[nescac1]

I like the all-star teams, hopefully a few more teams' posters will chime in and at the end we can form a NESCAC all-star squad.

I've got to cite Simmons again, he does a really good job in The Book of Basketball rankings every top NBA player, across eras.  He acknowledges the concerns of senatorfrost, and notes that some players' skills just don't translate.  But many superstars from the past would still be superstars: Kareem, Russell, Dr. J., Bird, West, Chamberlain etc. would still be at the top of today's NBA pyramid.  Similarly, I have no doubt that from what I've heard (and I give more creedance to those who actually SAW him play) that Sheehy would be at the top of today's NESCAC pyramid and had a place on an an all-Williams squad (which is what we are talking about -- NO NESCAC player could compete in today's NBA, more likely, so in many ways senatorfrost is comparing apples to oranges, the question is are there five Williams players better than Sheehy, and that seems doutbful).   

[nescac1]

Too bad there is no video of this for the buzzer-beater page:

http://ase.tufts.edu/athletics/menBasketball/scheduleresults/2009-2010/01302010.htm

Heck of a game for frosh Harrigan, 6-6 from three, including the buzzer-beating game winning shot.  And what a brutal weekend for Tufts, losing two absolute heartbreakers, both against rivals for the eighth playoff spot; Tufts will have to win at least one more to have a chance at making the final eight.  Kudos to Pierce on a monster game the day after playing massive minutes in the quadruple-OT game.   What is gonna happen to Tufts next year without Pierce and Beyel?  Scary thought for Tufts fans (are there any left on this board??).   

[tuftsalumni]

I would like to begin by throwing out my take on Bowdoin's best starting five:

G-Dennis Jacobi (1988-92)
G-Kyle Jackson (2005-09)
F-Gregg Fasulo (1974-78)
F-Chris Jerome (1979-83)
C-Joe Williams (1984-88)



Lol.... If Kyle Jackson is in your dream team of the ages for Bowdoin then Bowdoin has serious problems.

[nescac1]

Wasn't Rowley a pretty solid two guard for Bowdoing back in the day?  I'd put him above Jackson, at least ...

[Sticks11]

I'm trying to come up with a Colby all-time team but it's hard as many of their best players played before my time.  So I don't want to do a disservice or disrespect anyone I leave out.  But here are some names (more than 5) and hopefully others who are a little more familiar can chime in:

G - Rick Fusco (1980-83), 817 career assists, 260 assists in one season
G - Matt Hancock (1987-90), 3 Time All-American, National Player of the Year 1990, 2,678 career points (4th all-time in D3)
F - Harland Storey (1981-85), 2 Time All-American, 1,710 career points
F - Kevin Whitmore (1988-91), All-American, 1,367 career points
F - Brad Moore (1971-75) All-American, 1,935 career points, 1,392 career rebounds

G - John Daileanes (1989-92), All-American, 1,605 career points
F - Paul Harvey (1975-78), 2 Time All-American, 2,075 career points
G - Mike McGee (1977-79, only played freshman and sophomore years at Colby), All-American, 1,251 career points

[senatorfrost]

  Sorry I have to respond-NESCAC 1. The whole idea is to sell product. Bill James says Williams rates higher than Dimaggio. I never saw either one and neither did he. However, after listening to people who were there and hearing what the players of those days had to say, one can easily conclude Dimaggio was better all around.
  Of course Bill James has done work for the Sox and he also knows it's a good idea to give New Englanders something to crow about- and thus Teddy is #7
  Same idea with Simmons. Why alienate people and tell them their generation sucked? Jerry West a star in the NBA today??? The man had no left hand and slow feet guarding him. Kareem and his sky hook? He was guarded a lot of times by people who couldn't jump worth a dime.
    Russell having to defend top notchers every night?
   Bird facing a Rodman type night after night.
    Chamberlain dunking over fat white guys.
   Those old timers would probably make it today but they would not be super stars or anything close to it. I saw a lot of Bird and Jabbar. Simmons also knows there is no reason to turn off a bunch of people with cash in their pocket and then there's that next book-that's the way the world works.

[walzy31]

NESCAC1, if I could give karma I'd throw one your way. I like that lineup with a defensive squad coming off the bench.
Jim Frew was one of my all time favorite basketball players to watch growing up. I didn't miss one of his games his senior year at Saint John's.

2&4,

I don't love giving Karma away (especially to Williams supporters), but I threw up #45 for NESCAC1 on your behalf. That equals a shot and a pitcher at McMurphy's.

[Mr. Ypsi]

senatorfrost,

You are overlooking the elephant in the room.  If the 'old time' players were playing today, they would also have the advantages of, and be training like, players today.  It is true that the George Mikan of 60+ years ago would probably have trouble starting for top d3 teams today - so what?  George Mikan, growing up today, would not be that George Mikan.

IF they were growing up today, with the different culture, I suspect that Kareem, Bird, Russell, etc., would be just as dominant as they were then.

And in my opinion (totally unbiased, being a Wolverine rather than a Spartan ), and with no apologies to Michael Jordan or any current player, Magic Johnson is the best player ever to play the game.

[senatorfrost]

   
   Mr. Ypsi:
    I agree on Johnson. As far as players discussed-yes they would be stars today IF they were all stronger, BIGGER, faster, as well as quicker than they were. Some would have to have higher level of skills. Then yes, if all that was the case they would be stars today. A little theoretical though wouldn't you say?
  I might add that Jeff Brown played at Vermont in the 80's. He was probably pretty good. I'm giving Karma to you and NESCAC1 by the way and I always liked that Saginaw Song.

[CWM_42]

I'm trying to come up with a Colby all-time team but it's hard as many of their best players played before my time.  So I don't want to do a disservice or disrespect anyone I leave out.  But here are some names (more than 5) and hopefully others who are a little more familiar can chime in:

G - Rick Fusco (1980-83), 817 career assists, 260 assists in one season
G - Matt Hancock (1987-90), 3 Time All-American, National Player of the Year 1990, 2,678 career points (4th all-time in D3)
F - Harland Storey (1981-85), 2 Time All-American, 1,710 career points
F - Kevin Whitmore (1988-91), All-American, 1,367 career points
F - Brad Moore (1971-75) All-American, 1,935 career points, 1,392 career rebounds

G - John Daileanes (1989-92), All-American, 1,605 career points
F - Paul Harvey (1975-78), 2 Time All-American, 2,075 career points
G - Mike McGee (1977-79, only played freshman and sophomore years at Colby), All-American, 1,251 career points

That's a solid group you picked and quite accurate I think.  (One clarification, Mike McGee was a foward).  Fusco was an assist and steal machine and the thought of him setting up Hancock and Whitmore is scary.

[CWM_42]

I would like to begin by throwing out my take on Bowdoin's best starting five:

G-Dennis Jacobi (1988-92)
G-Kyle Jackson (2005-09)
F-Gregg Fasulo (1974-78)
F-Chris Jerome (1979-83)
C-Joe Williams (1984-88)



Lol.... If Kyle Jackson is in your dream team of the ages for Bowdoin then Bowdoin has serious problems.

Touchet.  What of the Jumbos' starting five?

G-Pat Skerry
G-Chad Onofrio
F-Greg Davis
F-Troy Cooper
F-Bill Ewing

[PolarBear]

I'm trying to come up with a Colby all-time team but it's hard as many of their best players played before my time.  So I don't want to do a disservice or disrespect anyone I leave out.  But here are some names (more than 5) and hopefully others who are a little more familiar can chime in:

G - Rick Fusco (1980-83), 817 career assists, 260 assists in one season
G - Matt Hancock (1987-90), 3 Time All-American, National Player of the Year 1990, 2,678 career points (4th all-time in D3)
F - Harland Storey (1981-85), 2 Time All-American, 1,710 career points
F - Kevin Whitmore (1988-91), All-American, 1,367 career points
F - Brad Moore (1971-75) All-American, 1,935 career points, 1,392 career rebounds

G - John Daileanes (1989-92), All-American, 1,605 career points
F - Paul Harvey (1975-78), 2 Time All-American, 2,075 career points
G - Mike McGee (1977-79, only played freshman and sophomore years at Colby), All-American, 1,251 career points

Pretty good, Sticks.  Growing up in Maine and then at Bowdoin, I saw alot of these guys.  Hancock, Storey, and Whitmore are all Maine guys, and all well known from high school and summer leagues, etc.  Quietly, Mainers take real pride in hoops.  The state almost shuts down when the high school tourney starts, and local legends live on in Maine for a long time.  When I can, I still like to hit a few Bowdoin games, sometimes with my father.  If we make a Colby game, he always tells stories about one of their assistants who played in the 50s. 

Begrudgingly, I have to admit that Hancock was probably the best NESCAC player I've seen - just an unstoppable scorer from outside, inside and the free throw line.  I saw Nogelo 2 or 3 times at Bowdoin and Tufts, and he was amazing, but I still place him a notch below Hancock - granted, I saw Hancock much more frequently and my Maine bias may be showing.  I believe Hancock was invited to a couple of pro camps and then went to Europe.  His brother was a decent player at Bowdoin. 

Good discussion.  Brings back many memories of Maine high school and college hoops. 

[mainehoops]

Polar Bear,  I second your thoughts on Hancock as the greatest Nescac player ever.   And believe me the man is still lethal on the hardwood.

Congrats to Colby on cracking the Top 25.  Now they get to go to #2 Williams in Williamstown on Friday night.  There are a number of storylines for this great showdown but to mention a couple. 

1) The best scoring offense vs. the best scoring defense.  Whitmore's defenses are notorious for slowing down great three point shooting teams but these cows can stick like none other.  Which side will give? 

2) The league's two leading scorers, and front runners for POY, battling for the inside track to host the Nescacs.  Admittedly, I haven't seen much of Choice and Shultz, but my sources tell me they both are fierce.  They say Choice is a pure athlete, a high flying assassin who is as unselfish as he is deadly.  On the other hand, Shultz will tear your heart out with a constant and precise aerial attack.  I hope they guard eachother.  I'm also intrigued by Russell v. Whittington, two athletic finishers around the rim.

These two teams have played close in the last 5 years, all games having been decided by 7 or less.  I'm expecting another close game.  Muletrain I'm looking forward to your analysis.  Also, what determines the tiebreaker if Middlebury Williams and Colby all tie for 1st in the league?  Obviously this is premature, but if say Colby beats Williams and then loses to Middlebury, and then they all win out next weekend. What then?