MBB: NESCAC

[amh63]

Should stop posting for awhile since I am misspelling, etc..  However, several recent post needed some comments before I return to the tube to see if UConn can win another game.
Fisherman...I too like P. Kaasila and enjoyed his play against Midd.  He is indeed the center of the future for Amherst.
Toad22....your remark about overestimating the Amherst talent is most intriguing.  Recently, several ACC knowledgeable people have remarked that UNC's "problem" maybe in everyone overestimating the talent of the last two recruiting classes at UNC.  UNC was stated to have had two great recruiting classes the last two years.  By professional talent scouts.  Oh yes, UNC won the national championship last year in Div 1.
Old Guy may have hit on it in his post.  How do you assess toughness with respect to talent.  What about leadership?  Especially under adverse conditions.  Missing the game.

[walzy31]

I have heard several informed basketball people opine that Amherst's problems may be more about a relative lack of talent right now than anything else. Maybe we have overestimated just how deep the talent pool is at Amherst. With the exception of Meehan, who was hurt much of the year, who else performed particularly well this year? I don't doubt Hixon's talent as a coach, so what else could it be? If it is because of youth, wouldn't the team have gotten better as these young players got some seasoning? I have no way of really judging the situation, but drawing from Williams' experience after 2004, it is fair to say that the talent was overestimated for the next year or two. We were living on our reputation. Maybe Amherst was living on its reputation this year.

We should move the conversation from discussing a fallen #6 seed to discussing the four teams still standing. I will weigh in on Amherst, and then move on as I too am still emotional from the loss (although it is not affecting my spelling as it has Amh63).

Amherst has talent and Amherst is deep. I don't think that is a question. Did we have as much talent or were we as deep as years past? Probably not. I think the key to the poor season was the inexperience. It is more than just missing free throws or not being overly familiar with the offense. It is closing out games that should have been won (Babson, Bowdoin and Tufts). It is shooting 65% from the line during games and 90% during practice. It is leadership.

The team did improve as the season went on. They started adapting and adjusting to not having Meehan in the lineup and playing good ball. Unfortunately, the schedule also picked up significantly towards the end of the season and learning on the job is a tall task at Colby, at Bates, at Brandeis and against 23-1 Williams and 22-2 Middlebury. I'm confident that the core group of guys that played this year will continue to improve and live up to expectations, hopefully bringing the program back to prominence (like Williams' resurgence this year).

Although I am a fan of his, Coach Hixon's incompetent use of Kaasila this season was unforgivable.

My last comment is on Kaasila. I'm a big fan of his potential and he looked great the last game of the regular season (at home against Middlebury). Heck, I drafted him with my first round pick in fantasy. However, he has lots of room to grow and only showed small flashes of greatness. I hope he becomes dominant, but he is not a dominating force in the league yet.

Meehan's injury probably cost him any chance at All NESCAC. Wheeler will get 2nd team.

The rest of the All-Conference accolades will be:

1st Team
Choice
Schultz
Wang
Hanley
Sharry

2nd Team
Wheeler
Pierce
Ellis
Whittington
Russell

Snubbed: Most of the Middlebury team. Phillips, and 16 Turnover Porter.

POY Schultz (runner up: Wang, 3rd place: Choice)
ROY Brown (runner up: Thompson)
COY Maker

[Old Guy]

I love Sharry - but my first choice for post-season honors from Middlebury is Edwards, whose numbers will not knock you out (8+ pts/game; 7+ boards/game; 5+ assists/game), but the intangibles are off the charts. He's the captain and senior leader of a 23-2 team. He plays the point; he's a fierce defender, guarding quick point guards as well as 3s (Schultz) and 4s (Choice). He leads the team in minutes per game. He picks up the best offensive player on the other club. He's got floor burns on his floor burns. His effort is incomparable. Ask his teammates.

[walzy31]

I love Sharry - but my first choice for post-season honors from Middlebury is Edwards, whose numbers will not knock you out (8+ pts/game; 7+ boards/game; 5+ assists/game), but the intangibles are off the charts. He's the captain and senior leader of a 23-2 team. He plays the point; he's a fierce defender, guarding quick point guards as well as 3s (Schultz) and 4s (Choice). He leads the team in minutes per game. He picks up the best offensive player on the other club. He's got floor burns on his floor burns. His effort is incomparable. Ask his teammates.

Old Guy,

I agree with you 100%. Tim Edwards is my favorite player on Middlebury. He plays great defense, can shoot, can lead, and plays with heart. As for All-Conference accolades, it's tough giving it to the "hard working" kid when you have a guy like Sharry who is ahead of him in practically every non-Steal category. Add to this the fact that Edwards missed first semester and it becomes nearly impossible to give him All-Conference.

Is Tim Edwards a top 10 player in the NESCAC? I think so. I think he is as vital a piece to the 23-2 (8-1) team as anyone. I did forget DPOY, so I'll give the Defensive honor to Timmy (although Locke might edge him out).

[senatorfrost]

  Edwards over Wheeler and it's not close. Ditto to everything Old Guy said. Edwards is one of the few players I have seen in D3 that I would pay to see. He gives fans and his teammates everything he has. I once saw him go 0-4 from the field and yet in my mind he was still the most valuable Midd player on the court.
 

[senatorfrost]

  Walzy: Edwards played in 19 games. He played in all the conference games so all he did was miss a few games where they didn't need him. I wasn't aware that out of conference games counted when figuring out NESCAC honors.

[walzy31]

I may burn myself with this challenge, but I challenge you to go back over the course of the NESCAC as we know it, find a player who missed 25% of the teams games (conference or not), was the 6th leading scorer on his team and who also was All NESCAC.

His assists, steals and rebounds are great. The intangibles are all there. I really enjoyed watching him play two weeks ago. But he shot <40% from the floor, 33% from three, 58% from the line and scored 8.6 ppg. Compare him to Nolan Thompson or Jake Wolfin statistically. I think either one of those freshman has a case for 2nd team, but that all three of them (and add Locke to make it four) get snubbed.

I'm sure he is content with another potential conference championship, a trip to the dance, and a probably Defensive Player of the Year award.

[senatorfrost]

  He missed 0 conference games. He also does fairly well in some of the NESCAC statistics. The key stat for me is that he gets the most minutes on the floor. Usually the player who gets the most minutes is the one the team can least do without. As far as one of the frosh getting 2d team because their numbers are better-I'm sorry to have to say this but you're wrong.
   I watched Midd the last time and BELIEVE me, at this point in time there is absolutely no comparison between Edwards and either frosh guard. Check out his NESCAC stats-they're not bad and he does so much more. When you're sitting a couple feet away is when you really 'see'

[nescac1]

Wheeler doesn't deserve it, because of his relatively poor play in conference games (12 ppg, 1 rpg, .2 assists pg (!), 39 percent from the field in 32 mpg).  And Amherst's terrible play down the stretch, as a team, hurts him as well.  Meehan I think deserves second team, just because he was CLEARLY a first team guy when he played, and he played enough of the season to at least warrant some honors.  Certainly by far the most important player on that team and along with Wang, Choice, and Schultz, one of the best four players in NESCAC. 

I also think Edwards will make it.  Really, the guard play has not been terribly good this year in NESCAC.  Forward is a MUCH deeper pool and much tougher to squeeze in.  I'd say:

Choice, Pierce, Schultz, Wang, Edwards (first team), Sharry, Russell, Hanley, Bernier, Meehan (second team), just missing, Phillips (if they can go with four forwards, he beats out Bernier), Ellis, Whittington.  Whittington is easily one of the best ten guys in the league, but I don't see three Ephs getting picked, especially one who comes off the bench.  POY, ROY, COY all obvious and I agree with Walzy on all three. 

Just for kicks, next year's pre-season all-conference: C Whittington, G Meehan, Wang, F, Hanley, Sharry (Russell, Ellis and Sha Brown are the other contenders). 

Seems like a VERY quiet year for NESCAC recruiting so far, after a year when lots of teams brought in big classes of very solid frosh. 

As for Amherst, I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.  They will be MUCH improved next  year.  A lot more experienced and they can only stay healthier.  They have so many low-D-1 level athletes in terms of size/athleticism combination, guys like Meehan, Waller, Williamson, Workman, Kaasila, Holmes, that they almost have to perform better on their athletic ability alone.  But, there is no indication that the problems (other than Meehan's injury) that haunted them this year will necessarily be resolved ... still no one to guard small, quick guards, not much in the way of dependable outside shooting (unless Meehan finally develops a three ball or Waller returns to his frosh form) especially after losing Wheeler, a few questionable foul shooters, iffy team defense (experience should definitely help the last point, frosh rarely are ready to play college-level defense).  I think Amherst will return to NESCAC contention next year, because at least a few out of the Williamson-Waller-Holmes-Kaasila-Workman group HAVE to have break out year, and I bet that Hixon brings in at least one big-time ballhandler to help Meehan out.  but they still will be a tick behind Midd and Williams going into the season, especially considering they have to play both on the road in conference play.  The Ephs lose a TON but do return two of the top five in the league, plus two guys who didn't play much this year (Klemm and Emerson) would be in the rotation at any other NESCAC school, and start at some. 

[walzy31]

Nothing like going to lunch in the heart of Montgomery County, Maryland and randomly meeting Amh63 for the first time. Maybe I will meet NESCAC1 tomorrow and Frank Uible Thursday.

[frank uible]

Have no plans to visit Maryland> How about Pappa Charlie's in Williamstown?

[mainehoops]

What a weekend of basketball this is shaping up to be. 

Colby vs. Middlebury – I knew Colby would have their shot at REDEMPTION.  Here it is.  No excuses.  No tired legs, no bus ride fatigue.  As we saw in the first game, this isn't the best matchup for Colby.   The two front-runners for DPOY (Edwards and Locke) matched up against Colby's two most gifted offensive players (Choice and Russell).   BUT I can guarantee this is not the same Colby team that got spanked up in VT a few weeks ago.  This time Sherman and Haylon are back, and I think they will be the keys Saturday.  If they play to their ability, I know Colby can win.  Middlebury is also coming off somewhat of a down performance, although that might not be helpful for Colby since I was hoping Middlebury was going to be overconfident coming into this game.  Too physical, defensive oriented teams.  I'm very excited to see this play out.  Edwards:  Feel free to pick up some quick reach-in fouls, maybe even a couple blocking calls too!  Colby by 3 , 72-69 in an OT thriller.

Old Guy – Any chance the Panthers are overconfident after their convincing win vs. Colby the first time around?

Bates vs. Williams – Shout out to the Bates coach for keeping his team focused and motivated through all the tough losses in the early going.  To go from 0-4 to 5-4 in Nescac is an incredible job, and they clearly are hitting their stride at the right time.  That coach, and that team, have a VERY bright future.  Unfortunately for them, their run is over. Williams by 24, 84-60.

Looking forward to these lines Waltzy.  I'd predict Williams is an 18 pt favorite and Middlebury is going give 7. 

[Bucket]

Overconfident at this time of year?

Not a chance.

[amh63]

Frank Uible....where is Pappa Charlie in Williamstown?  In any case, I will offer an invitation to the posters in question a gathering for a drink and bite on me at the Williams vs Amherst football game in Nov.  I know, it is another sport, but one that may get Frank U. out of Williamstown.
Been watching classic BB games on the tube recently.  The most recent one was the Georgetown/ UVA game in Landover Md. in the 80's that featured Ralph Sampson vs. Patrick Ewing and a slew of supporting stars.  It led me to thinking about a possible Williams vs Middlebury meeting this weekend.  Both teams have big front courts and strong backcourts.  Watching the classic encounter brings up a question about the play of the four teams in the games ahead.  The point of this post.
The UVA vs Georgetown game had both teams play zone defenses.  Few top teams use zone defenses today....except for Syracuse.   Have Williams, Middlebury, Bates or Colby used zone defenses this season?
I have not watched them play much.  Situations arise, especially in mismatches that some use of zones can be helpful.  When key players get too many fouls; to stop hot shooters on the perimeter, etc.
I believe Conn. used some zone against Amherst this year.  However, I believe that in general, NESCAC coaches do not implement much zone defenses.  Will zone defense help the "underdog" during the games this weekend?   
Walzy...maybe you can put out a line on the number of times zone defenses appear.
Oh well, back to my recovery process.

[booyakasha]

I see that Williams Bates will be webcast this weekend. Anyone know if the Colby Midd game be webcast as well?


http://boston.barstoolsports.com/random-thoughts/rate-this-middlebury-college-rap-song/

found this on barstool sports... any of the kids in the video hoops players?