MBB: NESCAC

[nescac1]

Big (small) addition for Bates (he is the top ranked New England player to sign on with a D-III school, to date):

http://www.newenglandrecruitingreport.com/news/article/1394/When-Little-is-Big.php

http://www.nehoopnews.com/news/779/NE-Hoop-News-Dish.php

Bates could be very interesting next year with Matarazzo added to a strong core of star Brian Ellis, plus Alex Gallant, Mark Brust, Ryan Weston, Nick Schmiemann ... that's a pretty solid top six guys, who are now a lot more experienced collectively. 

[nescac1]

Former Amherst asst. Flockerzi new head coach at Rochester:

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20100512/SPORTS06/5120337

[fpc85]

Great Hire! I remember fondly his time with Amherst. Good guy. He is going to great job at RU.

[walzy31]

Former Amherst asst. Flockerzi new head coach at Rochester:

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20100512/SPORTS06/5120337

Beat me to it. Here is the Roch release:
http://www.rochester.edu/athletics/index.php?article=3455

Luke will do a great job there. I predict a Final Four within four years and a national championship within seven years.

[nescac1]

Not the greatest video quality in the world, but here are some nice highlights from the Ephs' 2009-10 season:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aigtzA0gXg

So, too early to speculate about the top returning teams / guys next year?  I think it will likely be a very close race at the top, unlike last year, with a three-way battle between Williams, Midd and Amherst (all of whom should be top 25 caliber teams), with Trinity, Wesleyan, and Bates as possible dark-horses / breakthrough teams.  Tufts, Colby, and Conn could all be in for tough years barring a major infusion of talent.   Williams has the two best guys, but lost a ton of talent, and on paper Amherst and Midd both look much bigger and much deeper.  Amherst almost has to have better luck with injuries, and is far more experienced, so I expect them to return to their typical form. 

In terms of players, I think all-conference favorites would be Whittington at center, Sharry and Ellis at forwards, Wang and Meehan at guards (all kind of no-brainers, really), with Locke, Russell, Hanley, Waller, Sha Brown as the second team.  Top players Wang, Whittington, Meehan in that order. 

[Gregory Sager]

Luke will do a great job there. I predict a Final Four within four years and a national championship within seven years.

That's an extraordinarily bold prediction. A coach doesn't just snap his fingers and win a national championship. Just ask these guys:

* Glenn Robinson of F&M (782 career wins, four Final Fours, zero national championships)
* Jim Smith of St. John's (713 career wins, zero Final Fours, zero national championships)
* Glenn Van Wieren of Hope (660 career wins, three Final Fours, zero national championships)
* Dick Whitmore of Colby (626 career wins, zero Final Fours, zero national championships)
* Steve Moore of Wooster (625 career wins, two Final Fours, zero national championships)

That's five of the six winningest coaches in D3 (as measured by career victories) as of this past March -- and not a single one of them ever hoisted the Walnut and Bronze trophy after the last game of the season. In fact, of the thirty coaches in D3 who had 400 or more career victories at the end of the 2009-10 season, only six of them (Otterbein's Dick Reynolds, Amherst's David Hixon, Rochester's Mike Neer, Wash U's Mark Edwards, Wabash's Mac Petty, and Carthage's Bosko Djurickovic) have ever won a national title. And all but a couple of those thirty coaches are at schools where winning the D3 title is a realistic possibility in practical terms.

Winning the Big Doorstop is just an incredibly difficult thing to do. I think any predictions about winning one (aside from a short-term prediction about an obviously-loaded team, i.e., Wash U coming into this past season or UWSP going into next season) based simply upon coaching acumen are dubious in the extreme.

[Pat Coleman]

Walzy's history tends into the extraordinarily bold spectrum.

[walzy31]

I am bold. I am braveheart.

[walzy31]

Luke will do a great job there. I predict a Final Four within four years and a national championship within seven years.

That's an extraordinarily bold prediction. A coach doesn't just snap his fingers and win a national championship. Just ask these guys:

* Glenn Robinson of F&M (782 career wins, four Final Fours, zero national championships)
* Jim Smith of St. John's (713 career wins, zero Final Fours, zero national championships)
* Glenn Van Wieren of Hope (660 career wins, three Final Fours, zero national championships)
* Dick Whitmore of Colby (626 career wins, zero Final Fours, zero national championships)
* Steve Moore of Wooster (625 career wins, two Final Fours, zero national championships)

That's five of the six winningest coaches in D3 (as measured by career victories) as of this past March -- and not a single one of them ever hoisted the Walnut and Bronze trophy after the last game of the season. In fact, of the thirty coaches in D3 who had 400 or more career victories at the end of the 2009-10 season, only six of them (Otterbein's Dick Reynolds, Amherst's David Hixon, Rochester's Mike Neer, Wash U's Mark Edwards, Wabash's Mac Petty, and Carthage's Bosko Djurickovic) have ever won a national title. And all but a couple of those thirty coaches are at schools where winning the D3 title is a realistic possibility in practical terms.

Winning the Big Doorstop is just an incredibly difficult thing to do. I think any predictions about winning one (aside from a short-term prediction about an obviously-loaded team, i.e., Wash U coming into this past season or UWSP going into next season) based simply upon coaching acumen are dubious in the extreme.

It's worth noting that NESCAC teams (inclusive of Hamilton) were not eligible to participate in the NCAA tournament until 1994. Coach Whitmore at Colby had the #1 team in the country in the early 90's but couldn't go to the big dance, and Coach Murphy at Hamilton had a top 10 team in the late 80's and early 90's and also could not participate.

From 1994-2010, NESCAC has had four teams make the final four (Williams 5 times, Amherst 4 times, Conn 1 time, and Trinity 1 time). That's 10 Final Four appearences in 9 of the 17 years that NESCAC has been NCAA eligible (one year both Amherst & Williams made it), and the conference has won two National Titles and has three Runner-Ups...not bad.

I understand the boldness of my Rochester/Flockerzi claim, but if you look at the NorthEast region as a whole, it has been a two-horse race to Salem for the past 15 years: NESCAC Vs. UAA. Not having to suffer through some of the grueling travel and stiff competition that schools like Wash U, UWSP, Guilford etc. have to face is a benefit to the Roch program.

[Gregory Sager]

It's worth noting that NESCAC teams (inclusive of Hamilton) were not eligible to participate in the NCAA tournament until 1994. Coach Whitmore at Colby had the #1 team in the country in the early 90's but couldn't go to the big dance, and Coach Murphy at Hamilton had a top 10 team in the late 80's and early 90's and also could not participate.

It's worth noting, perhaps, but everybody and his mother are well aware of the self-imposed pre-'94 NESCAC prohibition by now -- especially in this room. And, while nobody has ever denigrated those Colby and Hamilton teams (or at least not in any forum that I've ever read), it should be noted vis-a-vis rankings that back then they weren't even close to being as authoritative as the current d3hoops.com poll (griping about said current poll notwithstanding).

From 1994-2010, NESCAC has had four teams make the final four (Williams 5 times, Amherst 4 times, Conn 1 time, and Trinity 1 time). That's 10 Final Four appearences in 9 of the 17 years that NESCAC has been NCAA eligible (one year both Amherst & Williams made it), and the conference has won two National Titles and has three Runner-Ups...not bad.

I understand the boldness of my Rochester/Flockerzi claim, but if you look at the NorthEast region as a whole, it has been a two-horse race to Salem for the past 15 years: NESCAC Vs. UAA. Not having to suffer through some of the grueling travel and stiff competition that schools like Wash U, UWSP, Guilford etc. have to face is a benefit to the Roch program.

That's not a two-horse race, Walzy, that's a fourteen-horse race. Big difference!

When I made my earlier post I was well aware of the easy road that NESCAC/Rochester/Brandeis/NYU have to the Final Four due to the (relatively) sorry competition offered within the Northeast and East regions. Nevertheless, let's look at the evidence: Since the NESCAC opened up the league's member teams to postseason competition, there have been seventeen national championships. Rochester has not won one (Neer took the Yellowjackets to the promised land four years before the NESCAC ban was lifted). Brandeis has not won one. NYU has not won one (although Violets fans strenuously argue that they should have won the one that Lebanon Valley actually won in 1994). The NESCAC as a whole has won two, one by Williams and one by Amherst.

In other words, Rochester and its two Northeast/East UAA companions have struck out in that seventeen-year period as far as Big Doorstops are concerned. The NESCAC has won two in those seventeen years, and they were won by two different schools. The evidence that any particular NESCAC or Northeast/East UAA program can expect to win a national championship within the next seven years, simply because its road to Salem is a smooth-paved superhighway littered with SUNYAC, E8, LL, MASCAC, GNAC, NEWMAC, LEC, etc., roadkill, just isn't there.

[walzy31]

I like the debate. Let's see how it plays out over the next 4-7 years. I'll still be active on the forum and I know you'll still be around.

[magicman]

In other words, Rochester and its two Northeast/East UAA companions have struck out in that seventeen-year period as far as Big Doorstops are concerned. The NESCAC has won two in those seventeen years, and they were won by two different schools. The evidence that any particular NESCAC or Northeast/East UAA program can expect to win a national championship within the next seven years, simply because its road to Salem is a smooth-paved superhighway littered with SUNYAC, E8, LL, MASCAC, GNAC, NEWMAC, LEC, etc., roadkill, just isn't there.

Hey Greg,
Did you just call my beloved SUNYAC roadkill?

[Gregory Sager]

In other words, Rochester and its two Northeast/East UAA companions have struck out in that seventeen-year period as far as Big Doorstops are concerned. The NESCAC has won two in those seventeen years, and they were won by two different schools. The evidence that any particular NESCAC or Northeast/East UAA program can expect to win a national championship within the next seven years, simply because its road to Salem is a smooth-paved superhighway littered with SUNYAC, E8, LL, MASCAC, GNAC, NEWMAC, LEC, etc., roadkill, just isn't there.

Hey Greg,
Did you just call my beloved SUNYAC roadkill?

You forget that I've spent time in the North Country, O Master of Prestidigitation. It's my understanding that roadkill is considered to be a delicacy in Plattsburgh.

[magicman]

In other words, Rochester and its two Northeast/East UAA companions have struck out in that seventeen-year period as far as Big Doorstops are concerned. The NESCAC has won two in those seventeen years, and they were won by two different schools. The evidence that any particular NESCAC or Northeast/East UAA program can expect to win a national championship within the next seven years, simply because its road to Salem is a smooth-paved superhighway littered with SUNYAC, E8, LL, MASCAC, GNAC, NEWMAC, LEC, etc., roadkill, just isn't there.

Hey Greg,
Did you just call my beloved SUNYAC roadkill?

You forget that I've spent time in the North Country, O Master of Prestidigitation. It's my understanding that roadkill is considered to be a delicacy in Plattsburgh.

OK Greg. You got me on that one. You must know that we're rock eaters as well. I'll have to see if I can find our Mayor's response to the SNL skit and send you the link later. Plus k for your all seeing eye!

[NESCACBasketball]

Mention of a Colby recruit.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/jan/07/pa-grossenbach-hits-grand-milestone/sports-prepsports/