MBB: NESCAC

[Major Hoople]

Pat,
   You have to know that I made reference to Hoops' week 13 rankings, and not any tournament results.  Beating number 7 and number 1 back to back deserved the Number 1 ranking for the next week.  Making Whitworth number 1 puts the poll's credibility in issue. End of story.

[met_fan]

met_fan....maybe true wrt distance.  Getting there by car is another matter.  I flew into Albany and/or Bradley A/P for about ten years heading to Pittsfield for work  year round.  The time was about the same but the roads were easier from Bradley. During the Winter period if I had to head towards the Berkshires....I would rather go to Ct. vice NY.  Usually, I would hold meetings in warmer areas during the cold periods.  Anyway, each to their own.

You just take Rt 20 or Rt 2...it's not exactly driving dirt roads.  Much quicker than coming from Bradley or Springfield.

[Pat Coleman]

Pat,
  You have to know that I made reference to Hoops' week 13 rankings, and not any tournament results.  Beating number 7 and number 1 back to back deserved the Number 1 ranking for the next week.  Making Whitworth number 1 puts the poll's credibility in issue. End of story.

In your opinion. You also said, "if it ever had any" and I'm pretty sure that over the 12-year history of our Top 25 we've done pretty darn well for covering a nation of 400 teams that is actively discouraged from taking long trips to play teams from other parts of the country.

I absolutely know what you were referring to. Of course, games have been played since then, no? And more games will be played before the next poll.

[Major Hoople]

Thanks for your response, Pat. I'm sure you are correct if the poll is measured over a 12 year period.  But I refer to a single week only where, in my opinion, the outcome was, or should have been, obvious.  Of course games have been played since then, but these results do not impact on that week's poll, no?

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

To those who are frustrated by Middlebury not hosting... blame Alvernia! They nearly beat RMC and if they had beaten SMC you would be home!

Now, seriously, it isn't perfect... but I geography played a role here and I am not sure there was/is an easy solution. If you had switch Williams and Middlebury's positions in the bracket... Williams would be hosting and Middlebury (probably). I am not sure the NCAA was interested in having two sectionals that close especially in the same conference. I don't think it has ever happened before. So that could have been a factor, in my opinion.

Also... Middlebury was rewarded by getting a bye in the first round - there is a chance, in my opinion, that the NCAA did realize Middlebury might have to travel the next weekend and decided they bye would at least keep them the fresher of all the #1 teams traveling this weekend (i.e. Whitworth and VWC).

Finally, while it might be easier and maybe more enjoyable for SMC to fly to Middlebury... it isn't in the budget for the NCAA beancounters. It is far more expensive to fly SMC via commercial or charter then it is to bus according to their rules and thus the 500 mile radius on bussing. The NCAA is already flying Whitworth to Ohio... UMHB to northern Illinois... and Virginia Wesleyan to western Mass - all three of them unavoidable and two of them featuring #1 regionally ranked teams). That actually makes a total of four flights in the tournament... and I bet the NCAA said, no fifth flight.

And I have seen it happen in the past where the NCAA says one thing one day and another thing the next. Who knows if the men's committee actually meant to fly whomever to Middlebury and had been given the initial okay... only to have that taken back by the beancounters.

There is a lot of maybes, what ifs, hindsights, etc. We may never know what really happened. However, we can not expect the NCAA to change its mind - they already tried to adjust at the last minute to the RMC hosting debacle in the first round thanks to the women's committee and realized it was too big a challenge to tackle.

As for thinking the winner of the Rochester/Middlebury game will make it to the Final Four... consider that Buffalo State is on a 12 game winning streak that at times is very impressive. SMC is in it's third Sweet 16 in four years and just took down the nation's best defensive team (RMC). The first game will be a battle... but that second game could also be a true test of any of the teams getting there.

One thing is for sure in all the brackets... who ever gets to the Final Four deserved it this year.... versus having a really easy road as we have seen in the past in some sectionals.

And for the comment about the #1 team not being Middlebury and that makes the poll less credible... that is weak. There are 25 voters, including myself, from around the country trying to look at more information then you can possibly imagine on a weekly basis. I have voted Whitworth #1 since January after seeing them at the Vegas tournament. I have seen Middlebury on video several more times then Whitworth and still feel strongly about my vote. Yes, Middlebury is playing very well and are a top team (#2 on my ballot)... but just because voters disagree with you... and disagree with themselves... doesn't make it less credible. Would you make the same argument for D1 or coach's polls if your team wasn't the top team?

[lefrakenstein]

met_fan....maybe true wrt distance.  Getting there by car is another matter.  I flew into Albany and/or Bradley A/P for about ten years heading to Pittsfield for work  year round.  The time was about the same but the roads were easier from Bradley. During the Winter period if I had to head towards the Berkshires....I would rather go to Ct. vice NY.  Usually, I would hold meetings in warmer areas during the cold periods.  Anyway, each to their own.

You just take Rt 20 or Rt 2...it's not exactly driving dirt roads.  Much quicker than coming from Bradley or Springfield.

But there is the one extremely treacherous hairpin turn on the side of a mountain. My grandfather forbid any of his nine children from applying to Williams because he refused to try to negotiate that turn in the winter. True story.

The week between rounds in the NCAA tournament is by far the most excrutiating wait for games of the enitre season. Amherst hasn't been in the sweet 16 for a couple of years, so I almost forgot how bad it is. I hope all three NESCAC teams advance. A second Elite 8 game between the Ephs and the Jeffs would be epic. And an all-NESCAC final would maybe be enough to finally garner the NESCAC the same respect given to the WIAC and CCIW by the d3hoops poll voters.

[Bucket]

Very thoughtful post, Dave. And while I disagree with your assessment of the nation's top team--I'm quite biased!--I concur that different people can disagree and that this shouldn't impugn the credibility of a group's collective opinion. I'll say this, though...there's a big difference in seeing a team in person and seeing a team on video. My guess is that if you had been in the Williams gym last weekend, you would have walked out voting Middlebury #1. Anyway, it really doesn't matter, at this point, what team was ranked number 1 or number 2 (by the slimmest of margins, I might add) heading into tourney play. Both teams are still playing, and here's to them settling the debate on the court!

One last quibble—RMC may lead the nation in scoring defense (besting Centre, William Patterson. and Midd by one, two, and two ppg, respectively), but the Panthers lead the nation in field goal percentage defense ( 3 percentage points better than RMC) and blocked shots per game, so we won't let that "nation's best defensive team" moniker go easily.

Four good teams will be battling in Rochester. Looking forward to it.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Well... I believe RMC had the 4th best FG% and 3PT% defensively as well... so that is why I was using the moniker.

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

At the end of they day, common sense or not, the NCAA is not going to break the 500 mile rule unless it has to.  On the flip side, Middlebury is probably receiving the most favorable draw of any remaining team.  In order to reach the final four, they have to win three games against no team higher than 13 in the last D3hoops poll. 

And as mentioned, Rochester is on spring break which could limit the home court advantage.  I'm not saying the NCAA made things right, and its a small consolation for those who want to see the game, but the draw is definitely winnable (as opposed to what Whitworth, williams and UWSP are facing).

[leelowlang]

Certainly valid points made by Larry...still very unfortunately for the Middlebury faithful to not see those games in Pepin Gym.  Surely earned it.  Can't sweat it now though.

Any thoughts on the Middlebury/Rochester matchup.  Don't know much about Rochester but saw Coach Flockerzi's teams at Skidmore.  They liked to trap/double the ball a ton, play relatively chaotic, and take a bunch of 3's.  Realizing the Grinnell roots and their roster looks tiny, is that the kind of game Rochester is looking to play?  Have to imagine Middlebury's size advantage will be a major factor in the game Friday.

...and then there were 16...

[lefrakenstein]

It was fun getting to see Dave Paulson on CBS last night as his Bucknell squad escaped a tight contest against lehigh. He's one win from the big boys dance.

[Ethelred the Unready]

Certainly valid points made by Larry...still very unfortunately for the Middlebury faithful to not see those games in Pepin Gym.  Surely earned it.  Can't sweat it now though.

Any thoughts on the Middlebury/Rochester matchup.  Don't know much about Rochester but saw Coach Flockerzi's teams at Skidmore.  They liked to trap/double the ball a ton, play relatively chaotic, and take a bunch of 3's.  Realizing the Grinnell roots and their roster looks tiny, is that the kind of game Rochester is looking to play?  Have to imagine Middlebury's size advantage will be a major factor in the game Friday.

...and then there were 16...

U of R is #1 in 3pt % at 44.5%.  5 guys average between 10-17 ppg.  2 others are at 8.  Not deep - lot of turnover from last year- but smart athletic players who accept their roles.  Dynamic PG (UAA POY) and excellent post/wing (1st team UAA) who is in top 15 nationally in FG%.  Not a great rebounding team - about even for the year, but don't turn the ball over or foul (26 and 8 nationally).  Overall playing very well as a team and have far exceeded my expectations for the year.  But to quote someone else...what do I know....

[kate]

Hopefully, Lafayette will keep them away from "the big boys dance"!

[met_fan]

met_fan....maybe true wrt distance.  Getting there by car is another matter.  I flew into Albany and/or Bradley A/P for about ten years heading to Pittsfield for work  year round.  The time was about the same but the roads were easier from Bradley. During the Winter period if I had to head towards the Berkshires....I would rather go to Ct. vice NY.  Usually, I would hold meetings in warmer areas during the cold periods.  Anyway, each to their own.

You just take Rt 20 or Rt 2...it's not exactly driving dirt roads.  Much quicker than coming from Bradley or Springfield.

But there is the one extremely treacherous hairpin turn on the side of a mountain. My grandfather forbid any of his nine children from applying to Williams because he refused to try to negotiate that turn in the winter. True story.

The week between rounds in the NCAA tournament is by far the most excrutiating wait for games of the enitre season. Amherst hasn't been in the sweet 16 for a couple of years, so I almost forgot how bad it is. I hope all three NESCAC teams advance. A second Elite 8 game between the Ephs and the Jeffs would be epic. And an all-NESCAC final would maybe be enough to finally garner the NESCAC the same respect given to the WIAC and CCIW by the d3hoops poll voters.

I believe the turn you're talking about is on Rt 2 on the east side of Williamstown, rising up on the way out of N. Adams...that wouldn't come into play coming from Albany

[walzy31]

I believe the turn you're talking about is on Rt 2 on the east side of Williamstown, rising up on the way out of N. Adams...that wouldn't come into play coming from Albany

If you're coming from West to East and drive right through Williamstown without realizing it then the hairpin turn comes into play...

Friday March 11th NESCAC NCAA Spreads

Middlebury @ Rochester
Middlebury -1.5
O/U: 114.5

Virginia-Wesleyan @ Williams
Pick'em
O/U: 151.0

Amherst Vs. Rhode Island College (@ Williams)
Amherst -12.0
O/U: 158.5