MBB: NESCAC

[Pat Coleman]

Who knows if the men's committee actually meant to fly whomever to Middlebury and had been given the initial okay... only to have that taken back by the beancounters.

Dave makes a good point here -- sometimes the coaches and ADs on the committee get blamed for stuff they don't really control. I am sure the committee wants Middlebury to have the home game but the folks with the purse strings really do run this thing.

It was mentioned on another board that the game program for the tournament has a different bracket in it. Sometimes the committee itself finishes a bracket and then the NCAA comes back and says, no, we won't pay for this. We had a football bracket get all the way to me and ESPN for the selection show two years ago before the beancounters nixed it.

[amh63]

met_fan....the time/choice of routes is a side issue really.  Thanks for the info anyway.  Walzy has offered his house...in Northampton....so the subject is mute.  From Albany A/P, I would take Route 20 after getting off the interstates to reach Pittsfield.  If I went up to Billsville (as Williams posters put it), it was up Rt. 7.  Never had  a reason to take Rt. 2 from Albany to Williams and then down Rt. 7 to Pittsfield.  Agree the Rt.2  from Greenfield to North Adams is the wrong direction.
Lefrakenstein...your Grandfather was a very wise man.  The hairpin turn on Rt. 2 comes down from Florida Ma. into North Adams.  It is even scary during the good periods of the year when one is young and have cars with bad brakes, etc.  There is actually a good food stop there.  The section of Rt. 2 is , I believe, often called the Mohawk Trail since it follows the river of the same name.  This chat brings back memories of going to games in the Fall.

[nescac1]

The hairpin turn is hardly "treacherous," I've never heard of anyone driving over, as there are about 20 signs leading up to it informing you that it is forthcoming: just drive really slow.   My favorite place to stay in the general area if you are NOT on a budget is the Porches Inn, not cheap but really cool, in North Adams (a ten minute drive from Williams), and it is right next to MassMoca (awesome museum) and several good restaurants if you have some extra non-hoops time.  If you are just looking for a bed, there are a ton of motels in Williamstown, and this time of year they are quite cheap.  Mezze is the best restaurant in Williamstown in my view, but, again, not for the budget-conscious.  

May be my NESCAC bias coming through, but I LOVE Midd -1.5 even on the road vs. Rochester.  The Amherst and Williams spreads both look fair.  I think I'd take both NESCAC teams in those games as well, but VWU is a mystery ... I've seen a few top-tier ODAC teams first hand after last year, and they are always very, very tough.  Pick 'em sounds about right ...

I watched some of the Bucknell game last night as well -- Walzy would have been happy, as at one point the refs went over to talk to Paulsen and he had a cup of water in-hand.  Interesting angle with the Lafayette game, btw, Lafayette's starting PG was, I believe, in Paulsen's last recruiting class, and then ditched Williams for Lafayette when Paulsen took the Bucknell job.  I am not sure he would have ended up starting at Williams over Wang, anyway ... I always root for the Patriot League in the NCAA's anyway, but obviously seeing Paulsen would make it doubly compelling, as an Eph fan.  


One other thing .... I've seen both RMC and Midd beat the Ephs, two of Williams' only four losses in the last two years.  They were definitely the two best defensive teams the Ephs faced over that time period.  I give a SLIGHT edge to Midd's defense just because of Locke, but it's close.  Rochester's star is a PG and I imagine Thompson will put the clamps on  him much like he limited Wang and the Western Conn PG in his last two games.  

[amh63]

This board between BB weekends is becoming either a debating session or a travel log.  In any case, it is at times most interesting.
nescac1.....must remember that in Lefrakenstein's grandfather's time there were no 20 warning signs.
All this talk about the Patriot's League games has me thinking about catching a Bucknell game in D.C. sometime at AU.
I also saw the "famous" Paulsen coaching Bucknell this year on TV.  Does he have something wrong with his eyes when he stares....or is it the camera angle.   During the next down period I may relate a story of my attempt to chat with the coach at Bucknell during a visit to the school last year.

[LustyLarryintheToilet]

Walzy i would love your lines!  I would give up to 6 with middlebury and 9.5 with Williams if i were in Vegas

[Colby Hoops]

I'm thinking there will be three pretty good matchups this weekend.  Having seen RIC a number of times, I could see this being a great matchup against Amherst.  RIC is on an absolute roll after having struggled quite a bit earlier in the season, including a pretty terrible loss to Colby. I think because of the rather pedestrian record, Walzy and others are underrating RIC a bit.  They beat Midd last year, and this team is not going to be an easy out.  

RIC is very balanced and plays hard.  They also feature former mule Adam Choice's younger brother Mason, who is a much different player than Adam, but very good in his own right.  When RIC's point guard, Antone Gray has it going they can beat anybody in the country.  I actually think Amherst matches up the best with RIC of the remaining 3 Nescac teams for RIC, as unlike Midd and Williams they have some athleticism on the wing in Workman and Williamson.  Nevertheless, I'll take the points in Walzy's 12 point spread.

[grabtherim]

Blame the bean counters, blame anyone you like, Middlebury EARNED the home games.  I don't care about 540 miles vs 499.  Screw political correctness and those who apoloize or explain away the morons who make the rules with no accountabilty to anyone.  Middlebury beats two teams in the top 5 over three weeks, and for that honor they get to go on the road versus playing this weekend in their own gym while the team they beat gets to play at home!  No excuses if they lose, but McHugh's take on hoopsville was so condescending and authoritarian to the point of insult. Oh, you saw Middlebury on tape.  Wow, I'm impressed.  Ask Maker or Hixon if they want to play Middlebury in anything other than a Salem game right now.  Here's a geography lesson for you, Burlington, VT is pretty close to Middlebury, and they have an airport.  Fair is fair and Middlebury got screwed despite you hanging your hat on the 1st round bye.  Midd would have crushed Hussan.  Williams played awful for much of that game, not Middlebury's fault or is it Dave?  Maybe the NCAA can figure out a way to use that against Middlebury as well measuring the miles from Pepin to Williamstown.  Tongue firmly in cheek, but this whole thing is a total rip off to the Middlebury kids and their fans.

[nescac1]

Ummm, grabtherim, everyone here agrees that Middlebury deserved to host, and got the shaft.  I feel particularly bad for its fans.  At the same time, they still have a FAR easier road to the Final Four than Williams (bye, Western Conn, Rochester (even on the road), St. Mary's < Husson, Becker, VWU, Amherst by a wide margin, assuming all the favorites win) so you are SLIGHTLY exaggerating the level of the screw-job.  It sucks to be on the road, no doubt, but Midd does have the easiest of the four brackets to deal with, which is something.  Again, I feel bad more for the fans who deserve to see two home games, than the team, who I think will make it through that bracket. 

Also, no need to hate on Williams re: Husson.  Williams didn't play one of its better games, that is for sure, they were not nearly focused enough both at the outset and after they built a lead, but also, Husson played VERY well.  They played tough on D, and their star player was hitting crazy-tough shots that would have gone in vs. anyone, unless Middlebury is in the habit of denying 20 foot fall-aways.  They had a guy who shoots ELEVEN percent from three nail two threes.  Sometimes, weird things happen.   I don't need to tell a Midd fan, of all people, that in the tourney, on occasion, a fiesty underdog can get on a roll / get hot and knock off a far more talented team ...

[frank uible]

In this world full of inequities,  petty and major,  the site selected for this week's Midd game is so low on the list that a reasonable person would lose patience while attempting to find it.

[toad22]

Those of us who have been following the NCAAs for any lenght of time know 1) There is nothing "fair" about the process, and 2) The committee setting the seedings does not have final control. With that in mind, I would rather have the Rochester pairings, even playing them away, than the Williamstown pairings and playing them at home. To me, it is almost a tossup as who goes to Salem from Williamstown. I would give a slight nod to Amherst, but it is very close. I would think that Middlebury is the clear favorite in Rochester.

As for Williams, playing the last four games against opponents who want to play ugly, rough, pressing games, has been an advantage for us. We are getting used to that style of play, and are getting better at it. It has also allowed our 3rd guard, Rooke-Ley, to emerge as a serious offensive threat. Also, Rooke-Ley is emerging as the new Chuck Abba on defense. Hayden is really tough -- something we have been missing. This now gives us four players who can explode offensively. I have been concerned all year about our over reliance on Wang and Whittington. Now, we have sufficient weapons to compete with any attempt to shut our primary scorers down.  

[met_fan]

Blame the bean counters, blame anyone you like, Middlebury EARNED the home games.  I don't care about 540 miles vs 499.  Screw political correctness and those who apoloize or explain away the morons who make the rules with no accountabilty to anyone.  Middlebury beats two teams in the top 5 over three weeks, and for that honor they get to go on the road versus playing this weekend in their own gym while the team they beat gets to play at home!  No excuses if they lose, but McHugh's take on hoopsville was so condescending and authoritarian to the point of insult. Oh, you saw Middlebury on tape.  Wow, I'm impressed.  Ask Maker or Hixon if they want to play Middlebury in anything other than a Salem game right now.  Here's a geography lesson for you, Burlington, VT is pretty close to Middlebury, and they have an airport.  Fair is fair and Middlebury got screwed despite you hanging your hat on the 1st round bye.  Midd would have crushed Hussan.  Williams played awful for much of that game, not Middlebury's fault or is it Dave?  Maybe the NCAA can figure out a way to use that against Middlebury as well measuring the miles from Pepin to Williamstown.  Tongue firmly in cheek, but this whole thing is a total rip off to the Middlebury kids and their fans.

Not sure who you're arguing with...people are just offering theories as to why things shook out as they did.  I think everyone agrees that Middlebury should be at home, but they're hardly the first school to disagree with where they were sent by the NCAA.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

grab - I have Middlebury #2 in my Top 25... does that make you feel better? You can take my point on Hoopsville however you want... you can also email me as other fans have and I will be happy to reply to my point as others have appreciated. I have seen Middlebury several times on video and for those who can't travel around the country or up to Vermont, this is an invaluable asset when determining teams. I did get the rare opportunity to "see" Whitworth in person and also compared what I saw to other games via video... and my conclusion was #1 Whitworth and #2 Middlebury in the last Top 25 ballot.

And what in the world are you alluding to when you ask me if it is Middlebury's fault in the same breath/sentence as the Williams vs. HussOn game... it makes no sense.

And a geography lesson for you: it doesn't not matter where the airports are and how close teams are to getting to an airport - as I discussed later in Hoopsville then I think you listened to. ALL that matters is 500 miles... period. If a team is more then 500 miles it is almost always an automatic flight (see Mount Union last year as the exception). If it is less than 500 miles, it is a bus trip - no matter what. That decision is based on COST and budget. Middlebury and St. Mary's are over the 500 mile rule by 36 miles. The NCAA apparently said no to a flight... so instead the committee had to find another team to host the sectional that the three other teams could get to within the 500 miles - hence Rochester.

So it doesn't matter if SMC had to travel 2 hours to BWI or less to Dulles or Reagan then only 45 minutes from Burlington to Middlebury... the cost of that flight alone... negated the option of flying altogether.

[grabtherim]

The real problem is the NCAA.  A bunch of out of touch yahoos who make their own rules with no oversight.  Who do they answer to?  No one.  Their biggest concern this time of year is what will be on the food spread CBS puts out for them to further kiss their behinds for the "right" to broadcast the big dance for billions of dollars.  With those billions of dollars in the bank, they are concerned about a flight from BWI to Burlington for 25 or so.  Please, what a joke!  I hope the big time football schools do the right thing and leave them as they have indicated they might someday.  Love your correcting my spelling.  Can you spell condescending NCAA apologist with no sense of fairness.  It's spelled McHugh.

[amh63]

Something for the Midd. posters to think about in the games ahead.  The coach at Rochester served his time at Amherst twice as an assistant.  He is familiar with the talent level of the schools and what it takes to win in the conference.  He was also the chief recruiter that brought the talent that led to Amherst's last two Final 4 runs, I believe....at least it is in his bio.  He appears to know talent.  It is interesting, to me at least, that his best player is a point guard.  The player from CT. is 5'11' who was rookie of the year in the conference and won POY in the UAA this year as a soph.  I point his out because the coach, who did not recruit the player, knows what it takes to win championships.....a talented point guard.  He recruited one & saw him develop at Amherst.  I am referring to a guard of similiar size, and won similar honors at Amherst.....Mr. A. Olson.
The question for Midd. is..... does  the U. of Rochester have the supporting players to win the game.  The coach's first recruiting class comes in next year.  The UAA is a tough conference.  Wash U beat Amherst in '08 for the National title and repeated as National Champs in '09.  Wash U was also in the final 4 in '07.

[trixiep]

I'm a Middlebury fan, and selfishly would love to see 2 more home games.  However, looking at the brackets, the NCAA had no choice but to send Midd to Rochester if they are going to be true to their 500 mile rule.  The Midd bracket is the only bracket that presents the opportunity to move the host school to a lower seed to save a flight (under 500 miles for all 3 traveling schools).  The other 3 brackets would have at least one team flying no matter what team hosted in each of the remaining 3 brackets.

I think if you asked the coaches, they would rather have some bracket diversity (not having to play the same schools they play in their regular season schedule) than have all the "higher" seeds guaranteed hosting a sweet 16.   With the obvious budget constraints of DIII you can't have everything.  I, for one, think the NCAA selection committee did a damn good job creating diversity in the brackets. 

I know quite a few coaches at Midd (one in particular who has won 8 National Championships) that would rather play on the road during playoffs (less distractions, ability to control pre-game environment) especially on the weekends.