MBB: NESCAC

[nescac1]

I do agree that a championship or second place finish in a more competitive sport like basketball should count more than a title in a smaller sport like crew, it would certainly make scoring a lot more complicated (and there is something satisfying about 100 being awarded to all champions).  I believe the scoring system already accounts for smaller fields of competition in earlier rounds.   Of course, that would hurt Amherst and Midd as well, as they combine to dominate women's ice hockey, another sport in which very few schools even field a team (and both have won several titles there).  

Fair point about the size differential of Amherst vs. Williams, although honestly, I think that the vast majority of heavy contributors to the bulk of sports teams' NCAA-level success comes from the pool of recruited athletes, which I imagine (even beyond TIPS) is roughly equal in size at both schools.  I mean, Williams has an ENORMOUS cross country team for example, but only five people can score at any meet.  And after all, the two largest schools in NESCAC -- Tufts and Wesleyan -- don't have, relatively speaking, stellar athletics programs, despite their size advantage.   Women's crew may be the one exeption there.  

Also, a small correction, Amherst has grown its student body to the point where the schools are a bit closer in size than 400, but Williams is still materially bigger (and Midd is materially bigger than Williams).  

I don't know how many tips go to wrestling and crew; I would suspect you are correct that it is few if any, as there are tons of superb (even by Williams/Amherst standards) students who really excel in these sports.  Skiing, however, I would guess (speculating here) gets a few, as there always seem to be kids from specialized ski academies and so on on the team .... but in all events, those are in some cases recruited athletes who could be playing another sport.  

[nescac1]

I will agree that the three schools are very competitive, and all are right at the pinnacle of D-3 athletics.  In fact, I've often said that Williams' reputation as a jock-factory relative to its peers is overblown, when you consider that Midd and Amherst have just as many serious athletes on campus, just as much success in team sports (which require the heaviest recruiting), and place just as much emphasis on athletic attributes in admissions as Williams does.  And schools like Emory, Wash U., Bowdoin, Trinity, etc. are right in the same ballpark as well. 

[grabtherim]

I understand all of the arguments you guys make, back and forth, but this is a basketball forum is it not?  As I recall, Middlebury cut down the nets in Williams gym after winning a NESCAC Mens Basketball Championship.  I'm sure Maker, Troy and Wang would much rather have avoided that than winning the Cup. 

[nescac1]

I think they are far more likely to focus on Troy battling through a broken hand and beating Amherst to advance to a second-consecutive Final Four, then cutting down the Chandler nets themselves. 

Speaking of Midd, it's been a quiet off-season from the Midd fans ... any news on break-out players / impact recruits for the Panthers?  Huge holes (mainly on defense) to fill with three of the top four frontcourt players graduating, but Midd, like Amherst and Williams, has managed to rebuild rather than reload in recent years ...

[lefrakenstein]

So, a long time ago, I posted a theory about amherst recruiting that basically said that every year hixon tries to bring in one player who can eventually be a 'superhero' and at least one player who can eventually be a 'sidekick'.

I defined a superhero as someone who could be counted on to help carry the team every night. The kind of guy who is expected to dominate in basically every game they play.

A sidekick on the other hand, is the type of player who can't quite put the team on their back every game, but can definitely be dominant for long stretches and even whole games.

For example, in the '07 class, I would say that Wheeler was a superhero and McLaughlin was a sidekick. Amherst pretty much needed Wheeler every night his senior year, and we also counted on consistently excellent play, especially on defense, from McLaughlin, with stretches of domination here and there (luckily McLaughlin had perhaps his best string of domination at the end of the national championship run)

Anyway, from years of following NESCAC hoops, I've noticed the following pattern: In order to compete for a national title (at least making the final four) teams need at least 2 superheros. Sidekicks are great, but you need to have 2 true stars if you're going to be an NCAA title contender.

For instance, Abba/Crotty for the old Williams teams, Olson and, in order, Bedford, Wheeler, and Walters the three consecutive years Amherst made the Final Four, and Wang/Whittington and Sharry/Locke for Williams and Midd last year, respectively.

Conversely, last year Amherst fell (and really felt, all year long) just short of being a Final Four team. They had one true star in Meehan and a ton of sidekicks. Really, I feel that Amherst had the best collection of sidekicks of any team in the NESCAC (Toomey, Barrise, Waller, Workman, Kaasila, Holmes, Williamson all pretty much qualify as guys who had dominant runs). Nevertheless, without that second superhero, they couldn't quite make it.

Which is really interesting for this year, because none of the Big Three come in with two proven superheros. Williams has Wang, Midd has Sharry and Amherst has Toomey, who will almost certainly blossom into superhero status this year after only playing around 20 min a game last year.

The question is, which team will have a second superhero step up?

Obviously all three have possibilities. Really, for Amherst, it's possible that any of those guys I mentioned before could become stars, but I think the best bets are Workman and Waller. Workman was almost there all year long last year and seemed to be gaining confidence. Waller really showed something we had never seen from him in the NCAA tournament. I think either one of those guys could definitely get there.

Williams probably has fewer options, but more likely ones. Robinson, for instance, seems destined for greatness. Klemm was close last year. Rooke-Ley and even Epley are also a possibilities.

Midd will look to its back court to find a second star. Is there a superhero among Thompson, Wolfin and Kizel? Of the three teams I'm most doubtful about Midd, which is why I would rank them third coming into the season. Nevertheless, I wouldn't bet against one of those guys making the jump, particularly Thompson.

Honestly, I think all three teams will be top-5 nationally next year, but in order to do that, I think each roster needs to find its second superhero.  

[jumpshot]

The bulk of conversation raised to me by many Amherst alumni and officials focuses on their obsession and rationalization of Williams' sustained success in athletics (and overall top ranking among liberal arts colleges), particularly winning the Directors'Cup for 13 consecutive years. For over a decade, I've listened politely to excuses by Amherst people ---ranging from small student/faculty ratios due to tutorials to more junior varsity teams, etc. There certainly appears to be a mandate given in recent years to Amherst administrators and athletic personnel to step up the winning as evidenced by transfers, number of matches played, the oft-noted "general manager", new athletic director, booster club, etc.

I remain of the opinion that Amherst would be far better served to build on its own natural strengths and fine distinctions than attempt to replicate someone else's attributes. Let's get a new science building, financial stability, student center, faculty/administration cohesion, and whatever else are Amherest priorities set by the board rather distract energy and divert resources from what's important now.

[nescac1]

The side-kick / superhero theory is interesting.  Although St. Thomas won the title last year, I'd say, with one superhero and a slew of really good sidekicks, and Stevens Point, I'm not sure they had even one real superhero (maybe Matt Moses) when they beat Williams in the title game, just a ton of really, REALLY good players, very balanced, very deep, and everyone knew their roles.  Wooster last also had one superhero backed by a bunch of other really solid players. 

I'd also say Crotty and Coffin, not Crotty and Abba, were the two best Ephs back in 04, with Abba more of a sidekick type.  The Stevens Point team that beat Williams in 04 did indeed have two superheroes, as did all the recent Wash U teams, so maybe the theory holds for teams which make an extended run of excellence through multiple years. 

As for Williams, I think Robertson could well emerge as a first-team all-NESCAC player this year.  He has the ability, the question is, will be play with the kind of aggression to do so, and can he and Wang co-exist as two ball-dominating alpha dogs in the back-court?  He also needs to stay healthier (two significant injuries last year), it would help if he adds some bulk to his frame as he gets banged around a lot during his numerous trips into the lane. 

I think Williams is best when Robertson controls the flow of the game from the point (yet still looking to take the ball to the hole when the opportunities arise), and Wang plays at the two as the number one scoring threat, but Wang definitely needs the ball in his hands a lot, so it presents a dilemma of sorts (a dilemma most coaches would kill for, of course).  Robertson was the best player on the court for Williams in both the elite eight and final four games: with Troy hurt and Wang seemingly a bit worn down from carrying the load down the stretch run when Nate was hurt, Nate really raised his game on both ends, and if he can play that way consistently next year, there is no guard I'd rather have in the conference, even Wang or Toomey (who are both better scorers but not at Robertson's level in terms of defense or decision-making).  He just seems to rise to the occasion when he is needed most.  If not this year, then definitely next year when he is the lone point guard. 

[amh63]

Wow!   The NBA draft is over and this board starts to rock a little as Summer comes.  Here I was going to relax and go to the beach and pay attention to other matters.
First, the last listed enrollment for Williams is 2100 and a dozen or two more, while Amherst has grown to about 1740 plus or minus a few......that is still about a 400 student difference.  Midd. is around Williams size give or take a dozen or more larger.
Now, to the superhero and sidekick theory pushed forward by Lefrakenstein.  Unique viewpoint and a great way to look at things this coming season.  However, I think that Lefrak....has been watching too many comic book movies lately.  I will confess, I just finished a 700 page hardbound book of comics on THOR.....put together/written and penciled by an Amherst grad from the DC area.
Finally, my congratulations to Williams, Midd. and Amherst wrt to their standings in the Director's Cup....especially Williams.  Good conference competition brings out the best and it is fun.   
Jumpshot....don't you think it is a little over the top that the William's website has an announcement on when the Director's Cup standings will come out...a week in advance!  Especially for a school that has been so dominant for 13 plus years.  Trival question here....What year and what school won the Director's Cup other than Williams?

[nescac1]

Middlebury's enrollment is 2500, amh63 ...

[lefrakenstein]

The bulk of conversation raised to me by many Amherst alumni and officials focuses on their obsession and rationalization of Williams' sustained success in athletics (and overall top ranking among liberal arts colleges), particularly winning the Directors'Cup for 13 consecutive years. For over a decade, I've listened politely to excuses by Amherst people ---ranging from small student/faculty ratios due to tutorials to more junior varsity teams, etc. There certainly appears to be a mandate given in recent years to Amherst administrators and athletic personnel to step up the winning as evidenced by transfers, number of matches played, the oft-noted "general manager", new athletic director, booster club, etc.

I remain of the opinion that Amherst would be far better served to build on its own natural strengths and fine distinctions than attempt to replicate someone else's attributes. Let's get a new science building, financial stability, student center, faculty/administration cohesion, and whatever else are Amherest priorities set by the board rather distract energy and divert resources from what's important now.

It's interesting that you've listened for over a decade to amherst people's excuses for being #2 in the US news rankings when Williams has been #1 for only seven consecutive years. The seven years before that? Amherst was number 1. Time for another swap I think.

DC-wise however, williams will always be #1.

[amh63]

I guess I stand corrected on the enrollment numbers, nescac 1.....thanks.  I was too "loose" with the enrollment numbers in my previous post......so I went to the appropriate websites to get the latest posted enrollments....as a reference for future discussions (I hope not).   They are as follows:
Amherst - 1744 students..all undergrads.
Williams - 2173 undergrads.  54 grads.   with the Class of 2014 having 549 students.
Midd.- 2350 undergraduates.
Nescac 1...did your 2500 students for Midd. include graduate students?
Anyway, have a nice Summer all.  Will hope to chat again in the Fall on the Football board.

[toad22]

I watched the three Williams incoming players (Flynn, Semin and Wohl) in a pickup game last week. They are a good players. I would guess that at least two of them will find their way into the rotation next year. Flynn is the most skilled incoming freshman center that Williams has ever had (that isn't a very high bar). Most centers at Williams find their groove about January of their junior year. I think Flynn will develop faster than that. Semin is a true power forward. He reminds me of Brian Ellis. A good addition. Wohl is a true wing man, much like Workman or Waller. This could be the best Williams class since Crotty, Coffin and Abba. Of course they haven't yet played a minute of action, so anything could happen. Come November 1, they'll just be freshmen without a clue. Barring serious injuries, Williams has plugged all of the holes in their rotation. Whittington can't be replaced, but I think they will be very strong at center next year. Every other position will likely be better.

[frank uible]

My schwanz is bigger than your schwanz.

[frank uible]

Your correspondent reminds himself that in his youth there was a neighborhood rumor afoot to the effect that there had been developed a new cake mix containing salt peter and called Schwanz Down.

[jayhawk]

Nice article and award for Amherst recruit Joe Mussachia:  http://www.gloucestertimes.com/sports/x1435407520/GDT-Manchester-Essex-Male-Athlete-of-the-Year