MBB: NESCAC

grabtherim · January 30, 2012, 10:18:10 AM

Quote from: Old Guy on January 29, 2012, 11:48:21 AM
Wish we had a Bates poster. The Bobcats are interesting team. The Tufts-Bates game in Medford yesterday sounded like a good one. Mark Brust (29 points) has really emerged in the second half of the season, deserving some All-NESCAC consideration.

To refer to Sharry as a "goon" or "beast," however defined, will amuse those who know him and appreciate his low-key, laid-back personality.

Trap game tomorrow for Middlebury after a hard fought emotional win? This will be a tough game in a gym which gives a big time home court advantage. From the quotes, in this article it sounds like the Keene kids are ready and confident...
http://keeneowls.com/sports/mbkb/2011-12/releases/20120129MiddleburyPreview

formerbant10 · January 30, 2012, 10:24:06 AM

Looked like Wang did a much better job of getting a closer end-of-game shot at Midd than he did against Amherst. He's going to make the next one.

Old Guy, "goon" and "beast" are two very different terms. Sharry is not a goon.

Fandom is an amazing thing. It allows us to justify reffing one game and overly-critique it the next even if your team shoots more FTs in both games.

nescac1 · January 30, 2012, 10:38:56 AM

Raw number of foul shots isn't exactly determinative of whether refs do a good job, formerbant, as I am sure I don't need to tell you. And actually, I said (a few times) that (even though I am a Williams fan) I thought that while the Ephs deserved to shoot more free throws than Midd based on different defensive styles, the Ephs did get the benefit of the reffing in that game, with some questionable calls going their way. Yes, I (along with several others posting here) felt that the opposite happened down the stretch in the Amherst game, but it's not like, as you are suggesting, I am consistently saying that the refs favor the Ephs -- Midd did have cause to complain about how the post play was being called.

formerbant10 · January 30, 2012, 10:48:58 AM

nescac1, I don't think there is a single person that posts or lurks on this board that has not done what I posted. I was not singling you out, more just stating some Todd Crosset style thinking.

nescac1 · January 30, 2012, 10:53:14 AM

Fair enough. I certainly can't deny that all fans will hone in on the calls that don't go their way while forgetting about the calls that go in their favor. Basic human nature, after all ... and having reffed some hoops, I know it ain't easy!

walzy31 · January 30, 2012, 12:00:27 PM

I'm looking forward to the refs being a non-factor on Feb 10th

amh63 · January 30, 2012, 12:08:05 PM

New week, and fresh comments, I HOPE.
As Walzy pointed out, Amherst must look to the games ahead. Tuesday's game with RIC at home and the dangerous away games at Bates and Tufts. Last year's game at RIC was cancelled due to weather. RIC came on strong at the end of the season and entered their LEC tourney and the NCAA with a winning manner. They met Amherst in the NCAA game at Williams and lost by 4. Two key players are back....their all conf. big man and Mason Choice...the younger brother of former Colby star player. Speaking of LEC/NESCAC matchups on Tuesday, the Keene State vs Middlebury game is seen by the LEC crowd as important to regional rankings and post-season selections.
The Keene State team is different from the team that Williams blew out earlier in the season. I believe Keene has added several big front court players..6'10"...this semester.
Posters should check out the Sunday's D3hoops broadcast of Hoopsville. Beside seeing the host wearing an Amherst BB T-shirt from the WBB team...there were some interesting discussions about conference teams...Amherst, Williams and especially Middlebury. A new this year Northeast commentator ...Matthew Noonan of Noontimesports based in Boston...was very positive about Williams chances ahead, and liked Tufts. Amherst and Middlebury were commented on as well as comments made about Midd.'s game in the Final 4.

amh63 · January 30, 2012, 12:14:52 PM

OOps, forgot. There was a discussion about SOS weighting factors changes for this year. The NCAA has upped the home factor to 0.75 and decreased the away game factor to 1.25 for this year. This should impact the regional rankings, selection and seedings for the NCAA tourney. First regional rankings come out Feb. 8th, I believe.

Bucket · January 30, 2012, 02:25:26 PM

Wow. No love for Midd on that Hoopsville show. Lost track of how many times the host referred to the Panthers as "barely hanging on"...to the top spot, I presume. Also chuckled at the comments about Midd's final four appearance last year, described as a "deer in the headlights" moment, one where the Panthers, "woke up to the fact of what a DIII Final Four looks like." Granted, Midd did not play all that well in the semis, but lost by just two points (missing a three to win at the buzzer), to the eventual national champ. What would people have been saying if Midd had lost by, I don't know, 10?!

I write all this somewhat tongue in cheek. In DIII hoops, there's just no way of knowing who the best team is. Any of the top 50 teams could beat any other on any given night. But it just seems to me that there is this attitude about Middlebury--not among folks who have seen them in person, mind you--that is one of "they don't really belong, we just have to humor them because they haven't lost a game yet. Which is a miracle." If Williams had this record, or Amherst, would the reaction be the same? Highly doubtful. Strange how hard it is to get national respect. You'd think a 72-6 record the past three years, including a Final Four berth, wouldn't lead to so much incredulity.

All this said, I wouldn't be surprised if Keene knocks Midd off tomorrow. Will be a very tough game for the Panthers. Coming off an emotional win, not an easy trip, very good team, difficult place to play. And win or lose, I don't think the Panthers will be any better or any worse than they were on Saturday--or the 17 games before it.

LarryBasketball33 · January 30, 2012, 02:49:08 PM

Quote from: Bucket on January 30, 2012, 02:25:26 PM
Wow. No love for Midd on that Hoopsville show. Lost track of how many times the host referred to the Panthers as "barely hanging on"...to the top spot, I presume. Also chuckled at the comments about Midd's final four appearance last year, described as a "deer in the headlights" moment, one where the Panthers, "woke up to the fact of what a DIII Final Four looks like." Granted, Midd did not play all that well in the semis, but lost by just two points (missing a three to win at the buzzer), to the eventual national champ. What would people have been saying if Midd had lost by, I don't know, 10?!

I write all this somewhat tongue in cheek. In DIII hoops, there's just no way of knowing who the best team is. Any of the top 50 teams could beat any other on any given night. But it just seems to me that there is this attitude about Middlebury--not among folks who have seen them in person, mind you--that is one of "they don't really belong, we just have to humor them because they haven't lost a game yet. Which is a miracle." If Williams had this record, or Amherst, would the reaction be the same? Highly doubtful. Strange how hard it is to get national respect. You'd think a 72-6 record the past three years, including a Final Four berth, wouldn't lead to so much incredulity.

All this said, I wouldn't be surprised if Keene knocks Midd off tomorrow. Will be a very tough game for the Panthers. Coming off an emotional win, not an easy trip, very good team, difficult place to play. And win or lose, I don't think the Panthers will be any better or any worse than they were on Saturday--or the 17 games before it.

Agree with your take on the season so far and the game tomorrow night. Of course I hope Midd wins, but a loss to a good team in their place at this point of the season may not be the worst thing in the world. I wonder how much pressure the kids feel as they remain undefeated. I was going to listen to a replay of the Hoopsville show, but after hearing your comments, I'm going to pass. "Deer in the headlights"? Did he see Williams blow/choke a huge lead late in their game to the weakest team in last year's Final Four? If Middlebury losing by two with a shot to win at the buzzer versus the eventual national champions makes them a deer in the headlights, then Williams was an "elephant" in the headlights.

amh63 · January 30, 2012, 05:30:45 PM

Enjoyed the witty and partisan Midd. posters comments. Assumed that Larry.....comments were "tongue in check"also.
Just before the close of the Hoopsville broadcast on Sunday, the host was responding to an e-mail on the Midd. comments he had just received. I think he mentioned the name "Larry" as the sender...Was it the Larry posting on this board recently?
Some tongue in cheek remarks .....Midd. fans can send the host a Midd. BB t-shirt....he gets a number. Better yet, maybe a Vt. deer hunting t-shirt.
Bad taste, I know....If a T-shirt of whatever kind is sent, I will pay for it. Really.....will give Old Guy or Bucket the money on the 11th of Feb. at the Amherst-Middlebury game.

Old Guy · January 30, 2012, 05:55:54 PM

I'm looking forward to the refs being a non-factor on Feb 10th Walzy

The refs are always a factor - nature of the game. I reffed. There are games when the contact, the aggressiveness quotient, is about equal and the total calls are very one-sided. It happens. You can't be making "make-up calls" - things only get worse. There's lots of subjectivity and judgment involved: that's too much contact, that's "incidental contact," that's an illegal screen but that's not, charge-block, and so on. There are three refs now, so three slightly different emphases and interpretations. Some teams do get screwed, through no dishonesty nor great level of incompetence on the part of the refs who called 'em as they saw 'em, at the time. The calls often don't even out.

The only thing for sure is that no matter how one-sided the calls and how great the injustice, after-the-fact commentary objections to the officiating always sounds like whining and is never worth it.

Pat Coleman · January 30, 2012, 06:46:59 PM

Quote from: amh63 on January 30, 2012, 05:30:45 PM
Enjoyed the witty and partisan Midd. posters comments. Assumed that Larry.....comments were "tongue in check"also.
Just before the close of the Hoopsville broadcast on Sunday, the host was responding to an e-mail on the Midd. comments he had just received. I think he mentioned the name "Larry" as the sender...Was it the Larry posting on this board recently?
Some tongue in cheek remarks .....Midd. fans can send the host a Midd. BB t-shirt....he gets a number. Better yet, maybe a Vt. deer hunting t-shirt.
Bad taste, I know....If a T-shirt of whatever kind is sent, I will pay for it. Really.....will give Old Guy or Bucket the money on the 11th of Feb. at the Amherst-Middlebury game.

Larry was not the sender. A Jerry was.

grabtherim · January 30, 2012, 07:15:43 PM

Quote from: Bucket on January 30, 2012, 02:25:26 PM
Wow. No love for Midd on that Hoopsville show. Lost track of how many times the host referred to the Panthers as "barely hanging on"...to the top spot, I presume. Also chuckled at the comments about Midd's final four appearance last year, described as a "deer in the headlights" moment, one where the Panthers, "woke up to the fact of what a DIII Final Four looks like." Granted, Midd did not play all that well in the semis, but lost by just two points (missing a three to win at the buzzer), to the eventual national champ. What would people have been saying if Midd had lost by, I don't know, 10?!

I write all this somewhat tongue in cheek. In DIII hoops, there's just no way of knowing who the best team is. Any of the top 50 teams could beat any other on any given night. But it just seems to me that there is this attitude about Middlebury--not among folks who have seen them in person, mind you--that is one of "they don't really belong, we just have to humor them because they haven't lost a game yet. Which is a miracle." If Williams had this record, or Amherst, would the reaction be the same? Highly doubtful. Strange how hard it is to get national respect. You'd think a 72-6 record the past three years, including a Final Four berth, wouldn't lead to so much incredulity.

All this said, I wouldn't be surprised if Keene knocks Midd off tomorrow. Will be a very tough game for the Panthers. Coming off an emotional win, not an easy trip, very good team, difficult place to play. And win or lose, I don't think the Panthers will be any better or any worse than they were on Saturday--or the 17 games before it.

Noonan spent nearly all of his time praising Williams who Middlebury beat in their own gym with a NESCAC Championship on the line and again just before he went on the air. He also went on and on about Amherst. All he could say about Middlebuty is they are a nice story who "may" be for real. He also went on glowingly about the young Tufts team via his conversation with local coach Sheldon. Hey, the last time they beat Middlebury there was with a different President in Washington. Seriously, ranking these teams is as far from an exact science as you can get, but McHugh and Noonan were so condecending about Middlebury even minimizing their game versus St. Thomas in which they had a open look for a three to win at the buzzer. I did not hear Dave or Noon mention Williams losing a 15-20 point lead in the last four minutes in Salem. Seriously, I dont really think that really was reflective of who Williams was then or they are now, but using their twisted logic it should mean alot. All Middlebury has done is beat everyone in front of them. Will they go undefeated? Probably not they could well lose tomorrow to a tough Keene team. One thing you can count on if they do lose, McHugh and Noonan will be the first one to say I told you so.

amh63 · January 30, 2012, 08:06:21 PM

Pat C.....Thanks for the clarification!
Grabtherim.....When Noonan was going on and on about Amherst, it was about WBB, I believe. Amherst WBB is ranked no. 1 and leads the conference......oh yes, it was the Amherst WBB team that gave the host the t-shirt.....at the Las Vegas tourney, I think.
Should improve the ratings on Hoopsville if this keeps up.