MBB: NESCAC

[LarryBasketball33]

Enjoyed the witty and partisan Midd. posters comments.  Assumed that Larry.....comments were "tongue in check"also.
Just before the close of the Hoopsville broadcast on Sunday, the host was responding to an e-mail on the Midd. comments he had just received.  I think he mentioned the name "Larry" as the sender...Was it the Larry posting on this board recently?
Some tongue in cheek remarks .....Midd. fans can send the host a Midd. BB t-shirt....he gets a number.  Better yet, maybe a Vt. deer hunting t-shirt.
Bad taste, I know....If a T-shirt of whatever kind is sent, I will pay for it.  Really.....will give Old Guy or Bucket the money on the 11th of Feb.  at the Amherst-Middlebury game.

Not me.  Have not listened to the show yet.  I enjoy all of the back and forth too.  It's all in good fun, no harm no foul.  Something most pundits fail to take into account is how a team's season can be made by beating or even playing well against a number one ranked team or any highly ranked team for that matter. To illustrate this point here is a quote from a Keene player looking forward to the game vs Middlebury:
"It's a game that everyone is excited to be playing" said junior Ryan Martin.  "We know if we can knock them off it will look good and open some eyes on the selection committee at the end of the season. It's also a good momentum boost for us the rest of the season.  We know can beat them and we'll be ready to go."
I can't speak for them, but I'm guessing the kids from Skidmore, RPI and Hamilton who all gave Midd a tough game felt the exact same way.  To think that these players and their coaches treat a game against #1 the same as they do versus just another opponent is ridiculous.  Middlebury like every number one ranked team and all highly ranked teams are targets.  Not a complaint, but a fact.  Personally, I think it's great to face those type of challenges.  Those games have been competative, tough and fun to watch.   

[frank uible]

Chauvinism, however we regard it, has been, is and will be always with us. It is part of the human condition.

[grabtherim]

Chauvinism, however we regard it, has been, is and will be always with us. It is part of the human condition.

Wow, deep, very deep.  Not sure who your phlospher is, but in a pinch I prefer Mel Brooks from Blazing Saddles.  One of Mel's best:
Howard Johnson: Y'know, Nietzsche says: "Out of chaos comes order."
Olson Johnson: Oh, blow it out your a$%, Howard.

[walzy31]

Will be at Lefrak tomorrow for the Sweet 16 rematch. Amherst squeaks out a 4 point high-scoring win in what should be a very exciting game. Especially considering Akinrola dropped 36 and 13 last week against Western Conn and Mason Choice is a tough match up with his size/speed combo.

Question: How many games does Williams have to lose before they drop out of the Top 25?
Answer: More than 5 (Salem State, Tufts, Wesleyan, Amherst, & Middlebury) - Currently 16th...

I thought this was Allen Williamson the first time I saw it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3w_Vy0lDk_A

[magicman]

Enjoyed the witty and partisan Midd. posters comments.  Assumed that Larry.....comments were "tongue in check"also.
Just before the close of the Hoopsville broadcast on Sunday, the host was responding to an e-mail on the Midd. comments he had just received.  I think he mentioned the name "Larry" as the sender...Was it the Larry posting on this board recently?
Some tongue in cheek remarks .....Midd. fans can send the host a Midd. BB t-shirt....he gets a number.  Better yet, maybe a Vt. deer hunting t-shirt.
Bad taste, I know....If a T-shirt of whatever kind is sent, I will pay for it.  Really.....will give Old Guy or Bucket the money on the 11th of Feb.  at the Amherst-Middlebury game.

Larry was not the sender. A Jerry was.

amh63,
As Pat said it was a Jerry not a Larry, and I am that Jerry person. Obviously you listened to the show and heard D Mac's comments about Middlebury and last year's Final Four appearance. I kind of got the impression that Dave didn't think Middlebury was a worthy final four participant and that they were just lucky to get there. This was the email I sent him:

Dave,

I'm listening to the hoopsville broadcast and just heard you make a reference to Middlebury's final four appearence last year and not really belonging there. In my opinion the real championship game was Middlebury against St. Thomas that was a 59-57 game. Middlebury actually had the ball with a chance to win that game but didn't get off a good final shot. The next day the Tommies blew out Wooster by 24 points. Maybe you had the wrong team in mind. I certainly think Middlebury belonged there. After watching them play this past Tuesday, they deserve their #1 ranking. I'm betting they'll get back to the Final Four.

Dave responded by saying that he didn't say, Middlebury didn't belong there. And I may have been assuming that's what he meant. He said, in response to my email, and I'm paraphasing here, that they looked like they hadn't been there before (which they hadn't) but that he never said they didn't belong there. He then talked about their #1 ranking and that he's still not real comfortable with that due to the number of close games they've played.

I think Bucket's earlier post and  grabtherim's earlier post  about the broadcast, were pretty accurate about the way Middlebury was portrayed. Middlebury may have had a number of close games but the most important fact is they've won all those close games. Unlike all the other schools in the Top 25, (and all of D3) the Panthers still have a 0 at the end of their record. The close games that Midd has been involved in have all been against decent schools and as I pointed out were all wins. Other highly ranked teams have lost to less than stellar programs this year. Va. Wesleyan with a loss to 10-9 Salisbury (3-7 in conference), been beaten by double digits... MIT, Whitewater, Whitworth, Wooster, or suffered multiple losses to decent teams... Amherst, Augustana, Stevens point.     

LarryBB, said it best in his post. How everyone gears up for the game against #1 and the quotes from the Keene player on the Panthers upcoming game against the Owls are probably typical of how other teams felt when facing Midd.

Once you're on top, it's usually harder to stay there for any length of time, than it was to get there. Other teams had there chance this year, but quickly faltered once they attained the #1 position. Middlebury's 8 week run has equaled last year's longest run which was done by Wooster, also from weeks 2 thru 9. The Scots fell out of the top spot in week #10. Hope that deja vu thing doesn't occur next week.

As Bucket stated in his post there may be an attitude about Middlebury, not from folks who have seen them in person. This is one folk who got to see them in person last Tuesday (and I've seen them in person for the past 5 years) and I came away as impressed with this year's team (maybe more so) as I was with last year's Final Four team. And it's not just the players who are impressive. Coach Brown has done an excellent job with this group (as always) and the selflessness with which this team plays, isn't always easy to find, when a bunch of talented players play together. It takes a good coach, getting everyone on the same page, for that to happen.

This is a copy of a post I wrote on the SUNYAC board last week after watching them play my Plattsburgh Cardinals. Another poster had asked me for my impressions of Middlebury knowing I had attended that game:


Middlebury is one terrific team. I've watched 21 of the Top 35 teams play this year and I haven't seen anybody that's better. These guys are big. The guys that come off the bench are big. Their bigs can move well, shoot well, have great hands, soft hands, and of course with their size get an awful lot of points in the paint. They are led by their 6'8" All American forward, Ryan Sharry. He scored 20 points Tuesday night and they all came on layups or were tipped in. Several of his tip ins were done with just a flick of his fingers. One was off the glass, and the other was straight up into the net. He's basically averaging a double double (21'8 ppg, 9.8 rpg) and shoots 68.6% from the field, and 42.1% from downtown. So you can't leave him alone when he's out near the arc or he'll drain one on you. I've watched him play for 4 years now and he's gotten better and better. When he was a sophomore I commented on the NESCAC board that this kid had All American written all over him. Last year he was a 4th team AA (should have been a 2nd team AA), this year he'll be a 1st teamer. Their other starting big man is 6'6" jr. forward Peter Lynch who averages 10 ppg and 5.6 rpg. If these guys need a breather they can bring in 2 sophomores that are 6'8" and 6'6" to replace them (5.6, and 2.1 ppg). They start 3 guards, (6'0", 6'2", 6'3") that are all shooters, can all run the point if needed, together shoot 47% from the field and almost 42% from the 3 point line. If they need a break, the top guards off the bench are both 6'5" freshman (averaging 6.7 and 5.1 ppg), big guards. They have freshman and sophomores that would start on most New York State teams.  The team plays an, in your face, man to man defense that is stifling. They average margin of victory is over 19 ppg and they only give up, on average, 60 ppg. Their offense moves the ball quickly with lots of passing as the bigs rotate, set screens, rotate some more and bang it's a wide open layup or dunk. The guards will drive to the basket but are usually looking to dish to the big men first. They have a real solid 8 man rotation with several other young players that can come into the lineup and make contributions if needed. The top 8 all average double digit minutes with 4 others getting 7-11 minutes of playing time, but haven't played in every game. The scary thing is this team has 17 players on the roster and next year will return 12 of their top 13 scorers. The one they lose, Sharry, is a huge loss of course but they have 4 sophomores, 6'8", 6'6", 6'4", 6'4" and 5 freshman, 6'9", 6'7", 6'6", 6'5", and 6'5" just waiting in the wings. Did I mention that these guys are BIG. In watching these young guys, who aren't getting much PT because of who's in front of them, during warm ups, they all appear to have lots of potential. Coach Jeff Brown has a well stocked cupboard and these guys will be contending for the NESCAC title cetainly for the next few years. With 4 starters coming back next year and plenty of depth as well, they are well suited to make another tournament run.

As far as this year goes I watched a team that made it to the Final Four last year and lost in the semi's to St. Thomas by a 59-57 score. They had a chance to win that game when they got possession of the ball with 26 seconds to go and their final attempt at a 3 pointer was no good. It really was the championship game for all intensive purposes as St. Thomas blew out Wooster the next day by 24 points to win it.

Will they go undefeated during the regular season? They could, but there's a couple of NESCAC games coming up against Williams and at Amherst, that might pose problems. A game at Keene State next Tuesday night won't be a laugher either. Then there's always the league tournament where anything can happen. One thing is for sure though, they will be dancing come March. Will they win it all this year? Funny things can happen in a single elimination tournament, a poor night shooting the rock, the other team lights it up, a bad call at a crucial point in the game, and many other variables, so the best team may not get it done. But if I was a betting man (and I am), I would put down a chunk of change (if I could) that the Panthers will walk off the Salem Civic Center holding high The Walnut and Bronze. (And  The Belt^TM with it. )

Side note to Bucket and Old Guy. Sorry I missed you both at the Midd-Plattsburgh game. I left for Middlebury early in the day and never saw Old Guys post until I got back to Plattsburgh late that night. I did see Bucket, announcing the game and of course heard him all night long, especially, the RYAAANN SHHHARRRY part.   Just didn't know it was him until I saw Old Guys post later on. Next year you guys should come to Plattsburgh. I think we might give you a better game as this year's edition was an extremely young squad. But then again Midd has so much returning next year we'll still be the dogs on our home court. My apologies for such a long post. 

     
   

[booyakasha]

does that book come in hardcover?

[Major Hoople]

on a thoughtful, well focused post.  Your impression of Dave's Hoopsville comments about Middlebury were the same as mine.  His response to you, although paraphrased, indicates that, perhaps, he should seek political office, finding it necessary to qualify what he clearly said and, I believe, meant.
   Midd has gained, and earned, the respect of the teams who have played against them for the reasons well described in Magicman's SUNYAC post which he quotes.  That Dave may not be comfortable with this is really of no moment because, at the end of the day, and at least until this evening, the Panthers are 18-0.

[Pat Coleman]

Chauvinism, however we regard it, has been, is and will be always with us. It is part of the human condition.

I don't know, Frank. It may always be with your generation but time progresses and so do people.

Jerry -- by the way, I knew it was you, but I wasn't going to out you here.

[Pat Coleman]

Will be at Lefrak tomorrow for the Sweet 16 rematch. Amherst squeaks out a 4 point high-scoring win in what should be a very exciting game. Especially considering Akinrola dropped 36 and 13 last week against Western Conn and Mason Choice is a tough match up with his size/speed combo.

Question: How many games does Williams have to lose before they drop out of the Top 25?
Answer: More than 5 (Salem State, Tufts, Wesleyan, Amherst, & Middlebury) - Currently 16th...

Well, those recent two losses were to teams ranked above them. That didn't disprove their ranking at all.

[walzy31]

Pat,

I know, but at some point I need to let my inner college student take the reins of the keyboard and take a shot at Williams' hoops program when I can. I prefer sarcasm related to Top 25 rankings over sore winning and sore losing.

This is just a friendly tap-on-the-shoulder to NESCAC nation that Williams is probably a little overrated.

[walzy31]

Did I mention that these guys are BIG. In watching these young guys, who aren't getting much PT because of who's in front of them, during warm ups, they all appear to have lots of potential.

Any potential All-Crazy candidates up there in Vermont? It's almost that time and I have a few roster slots still available.

[walzy31]

Tuesday January 31st NESCAC Vs. LEC Showdown Spreads

Amherst Vs. Rhode Island College
Amherst -4.0
O/U: 157.5

Keene State Vs. Middlebury
Middlebury -5.5
O/U: 129.5

Tufts Vs. UMass Dartmouth
Tufts -3.0
O/U: 148.5

Western Connecticut Vs. Conn College
Western Conn -15.0
O/U: 132.0

[nescac1]

I love Midd and the over, despite Keene's Ewing-theory improvement following the departure of its leading scorer (especially on defense).  Amherst and RIC, sounds just about right on both lines, so I will abstain. 

[amh63]

There is a nice preview of the RIC game on the Amherst website.
I had thought the LEC posters stated that Keene State had added two 6'10" players.  Went to their roster and saw only one listed now.  Watched a bit of a Keene game to see how their bigs impacts the game.  Problem is that on-line it is hard to judge how tall players are, etc. 
Surprised to see that RIC's "beast" of a center looks like a normal size player.  Consider him like Sullivan of Hamilton....and that is bad enough.  Need to attack RIC inside and check out Akinrola's defensive prowess and to box him off the boards.  Last year, Amherst out rebounded RIC 50-28.
Saw your spread post on the LEC board Walzy....nice touch.

[nescac1]

amh63, Keene has not added any players to its pre-season roster, but rather, only substracted (the 6'10 guy did miss the Williams game, however) ... D'Amours, the leading scorer, I believe is no longer on the roster (even if still listed), and a highly-regared scholarship level transfer who ended up playing little is no longer on the roster at all.   It may be a case of addition by substraction, but still, Williams big guys' were able to score at will vs. Keene (Emerson and Mayer went a combine 13-13 from the field), so I'd be surprised if Keene had anyone who can control Midd's big guys ... they have faced a grand total of two credible big guy since the Williams game: Mike Akinrola, who shot 11-13 from the field, and Lance Greene, who shot 10-14 and added 13 (!) FTA's.  The 6'10 guy on Keene played in both those games.  I think Midd will destroy Keene on the interior, which is why I have confidence in that pick.  Moreover, Keene has relied heavily on D-1 transfer Ryan Martin who has carried them in their recent run, but as an undersized (5'9) guard with a perimeter-shooting emphasis (in fact, he may be the best shooter in D-3, check out his stats: 96-186  .516  37-80   .463  70-75   .933), his talents could be mostly neutralized by Nolan Thompson.