MBB: NESCAC

[Hugenerd]

Thats pretty crazy, Sharry had 13 boards in 7 minutes of PT in the first half.

[nescac1]

Even by all-star game standards, that is a crazy good box score for Sharry.  He had an awesome career, and as a fan of a Midd rival, I'm glad to see him graduate .  Right there with Whittington, Tyler Rhoten, and Ben Coffin as the best all-around NESCAC bigs of the past decade (a case could be made for any of them).  Midd will still be outstanding with four returning guys, but the rare D-3 inside guy who can be that dominant and can pretty much score at will if single-covered in the post is difficult to replace (as Williams learned without Whittington this year).   And actually, barring another big off-season leap forward from Michael Mayer at Williams, I'm not sure if any NESCAC team will have a guy like that next season.   

Interesting to see Andrew August in that box score, I didn't realize he was playing D-3, with his length and skills I figured him for a higher level.  He played with former F&M all-American James McNally in high school (I remember well, as it happens to be my alma mater), and they obviously formed a heck of a high school duo. 

[NEhoops]

That's a great point. It will definitely be a guard orientated league next year. Here are some of the 'Bigs' that will have an impact (In no particular order).

Scott Anderson-TUF
Michael Mayer-WIL
Ed Bogdanovich-BAT
Mike Callaghan-WES
Peter Kaasila-AMH
Peter Lynch-MID

[amh63]

I feel that several "bigs" in the front court will have some impacts next year.  Swords, the 7 footer of Bowdoin cannot be overlooked.  There are several front court players for Amherst that have been waiting their time and should step in for Jeff Holmes....plus there are at least several 6'8" recruits coming in and at least one other 6'8" growing player on the team that had one year to understand what Hixon wants.  Replacements for Waller and Barrise are hard to find....but there are talented players on hand and training.  It will be some interesting discussions in late Fall.  Another two guards will hopefully join the team....a PG and a SG.

[nescac1]

Those guys are all good players, but none of them are (at least not yet) anything close to a Ryan Sharry or Troy Whittington level player.  I think Mayer has the highest upside, given his legit 6'9 height and offensive skill set, if he continues to get stronger and tougher on the interior.  Lynch looked really good at times but will need to be more consistent at Midd's go-to interior player.  The rest of those players that NEHoops listed are very dependable players, but none are going to dominate games like Sharry did, barring huge off-season improvement. 

Swords is the most interesting, a high upside guy due to the fact that he just towers over everyone else in the league and has a lot of bulk to boot, can be physically overpowering and he played very well vs. Williams last year in the game I saw him. But he needs a lot of work to polish his coordination / offensive skill set though, and blocked fewer shots that I expected for a 7 footer. 

[walzy31]

Add Anthony Davis to this year's Colby team and what is Colby's record, what do they do in the NESCAC tourney, and what do they do in the NCAA tourney if they make it?

Same three questions for Conn College adding Harrison Barnes

What are their stat lines?

[nescac1]

I think Anthony Davis with any NESCAC team wins the national title so long as he stays healthy.  Several D-3 teams featuring one superstar and very mediocre supporting casts have made the Final Four, and Davis is far better than the best D-3 superstar, kid is a freak of nature, I am not even sure the NBA comparison (maybe an even more athletic young Marcus Camby with much better handle and touch).  He'd make scoring in the lane a virtual impossibility for any opponent (take Andrew Locke from last year, add longer arms, better timing, and about five times the vertical leap), and how the heck could you defend against the alley-oop without leaving three guys wide open for three on every possession? 

His projected D-3 stat line: 25 ppg, 18 rbg, 6 apg, 9 bpg, 2 spg, 74% fgp. 

Probably the same for Harrison Barnes, but since he is not a singularly dominant defensive player and he could always get cold from 3, there is at least a decent chance they could lose in the tourney. 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

You also have to factor in the skill level for d1 players.  It goes beyond shooting and defense - it's about body control as well.  Guys who could hang on a higher level don't generally have foul issues because they know how to move properly to do what needs to be done.

That was one of the big things I've noticed about Cory Lemons.  He always is aware of his space on the floor and even though he plays very aggressively on both ends of the floor, he rarely has many fouls.

There's other examples as well - generally from players who had offers to d2 or d1.  A guy like Davis would be shooting 20 FTs a night.

[amh63]

Hoops Fan....You raised a good point about body control, court sense, and on floor smarts about D1 players on good teams.
However, after watching NCAA games and even NIT teams....I even wonder if D1 tournament players have that much over top D3 players.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Hoops Fan....You raised a good point about body control, court sense, and on floor smarts about D1 players on good teams.
However, after watching NCAA games and even NIT teams....I even wonder if D1 tournament players have that much over top D3 players.

They don't, because most top d3 players are of similar caliber.  That was my point.  Obviously the best in d1 are much better than the best in d3 - but I don't see why any of the guys in the all-star game couldn't be contributors on a d1 team with a winning record.

The discussion started with talk of bringing Anthony Davis to Colby - that's a little different than adding Ryan Sharry to Norfolk State.

[amh63]

Always like to end a fine season on a positive note.  The conference Winter All-Academic team winners have been announced.
Amherst has 5 Basketball players listed......Taylor Barrise, Roshard Brayant, Connor Gach, Jeff Holmes and Tim Prowitt!  Congrats to them.  The grade point average requirement is one that I did not reach.  I had a better grade point average at MIT in grad. school...guess I was more mature and less distracted..sure did not get smarter.

[formerbant10]

Hoops Fan....You raised a good point about body control, court sense, and on floor smarts about D1 players on good teams.
However, after watching NCAA games and even NIT teams....I even wonder if D1 tournament players have that much over top D3 players.

They don't, because most top d3 players are of similar caliber.  That was my point.  Obviously the best in d1 are much better than the best in d3 - but I don't see why any of the guys in the all-star game couldn't be contributors on a d1 team with a winning record.

They do...it's generally speed, athleticism, size and skill that they have over D3 players.  Yes, there are exceptions to the rule...but not as many as we (current and former d3 players) would like to think.

The only way Anthony Davis doesn't average more than 25 ppg is if he only plays 12 minutes or less each game.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Hoops Fan....You raised a good point about body control, court sense, and on floor smarts about D1 players on good teams.
However, after watching NCAA games and even NIT teams....I even wonder if D1 tournament players have that much over top D3 players.

They don't, because most top d3 players are of similar caliber.  That was my point.  Obviously the best in d1 are much better than the best in d3 - but I don't see why any of the guys in the all-star game couldn't be contributors on a d1 team with a winning record.

They do...it's generally speed, athleticism, size and skill that they have over D3 players.  Yes, there are exceptions to the rule...but not as many as we (current and former d3 players) would like to think.

The only way Anthony Davis doesn't average more than 25 ppg is if he only plays 12 minutes or less each game.

Again, I acknowledged a difference between Anthony Davis and starters for tournament teams.  There are obviously reasons why some guys play d1 and others play d3 - but there are some top d3 players would could fit in on d1 squads, maybe not Kentucky or Syracuse or even VCU, but certainly some of those 14-16 seeds and obviously other teams in those conferences.

If we're comparing top d1 players to top d3 players, there is no comparison, but a few of the d3 guys do have the requisite talent, speed and athleticism to at least play some place on the d1 level.

[walzy31]

Thanks for the conversation. I enjoyed it despite the record of Colby and Conn not being addressed.
I agree with Hoops Fan. I actually think that the top of the NESCAC (and for that matter the WIAC, UAA and some years ODAC and CCIW) can compete with the bottom half of the Ivy and Patriot Leagues. And probably some other leagues' bottom halves that are less accessible for me to watch play. There is clearly a gap when you start talking about any major conference like ACC, Big East, Big 12, SEC and Big 10. However, then Lehigh beats Duke and it makes me scratch my head and start dreaming...

[rlk]

Thanks for the conversation. I enjoyed it despite the record of Colby and Conn not being addressed.
I agree with Hoops Fan. I actually think that the top of the NESCAC (and for that matter the WIAC, UAA and some years ODAC and CCIW) can compete with the bottom half of the Ivy and Patriot Leagues. And probably some other leagues' bottom halves that are less accessible for me to watch play. There is clearly a gap when you start talking about any major conference like ACC, Big East, Big 12, SEC and Big 10. However, then Lehigh beats Duke and it makes me scratch my head and start dreaming...

There's a big difference between "top D3 players could contribute on D1 programs" and "top D3 programs can compete with the bottom half of the Ivy League".  The former I agree with.  The latter I generally don't.

Yes, CMU beat Princeton a while back, but as best I can tell that's extremely rare.  I didn't make it to the MIT-Harvard exhibition this year, and while MIT was clearly a top D3 team this year, the Engineers still lost decisively.  MIT simply didn't have the size and strength -- and MIT's got real size up front by D3 standards -- to neutralize Harvard, judging by last year's game.

Granted, Harvard was the top Ivy League team this year, and they beat Yale by an even more lopsided score (and Yale wasn't the bottom of the Ivy League by any means, either).  But I don't know how much to believe the score, since past MIT-Harvard games have gone to the benches with a lot of time left.  But I do recall reading on one of the boards here that no D3 team beat a D1 team this season.  I tried doing some research on D3 teams beating D1, but I haven't had much luck.