MBB: NESCAC

[nescac1]

Walzy, I love Colby minus 20 at home, even though Southern Maine has been playing well, can I put two chits on Colby?  Other spreads look tough to me, I think I'll abstain as I've been on a negative karma roll of late ... sometimes, you've gotta know when to walk away, and know when to run. 

Keene perpetually seems to have the offensive talent to compete with anyone, yet also perpetually seems to be, errr, defensively challenged.  If they played with Midd's toughness and defensive energy level on a game-to-game basis, they could do big things. 

[Pat Coleman]

Been sitting on the sidelines watching and listening to all of the chatter, but something just struck me.  The NESCAC must be a pretty good conference when the #3 team in the country drops to #3 in the conference with a one on the right hand column. 

Or you must not play a lot of conference games.

[madzillagd]

Count me in the confused column when it comes the health & wellness discussion.  I posted about it and never once used it as an excuse for losing, it was rather an explanation for why the team struggled.  As I pointed out, if you don't get support from your bench when the starters are down you are going to have a harder time winning.  Amh63 I think you are just taking it like we are trying to provide excuses and not acknowledging a good game by Amherst but nobody is doing that.

In fact, we are on the opposite side of it this week against Midd with their injuries. I never once for a second took the Midd comments about their injuries as an excuse.  The fact is they are down now and that played a part in their matchup against Williams.  They aren't making an excuse, I'm not taking it as an excuse - it's just a fact they weren't at full strength.  Any mention of it doesn't lessen the Williams victory in my mind. 

Going into last week Williams was averaging 84.6 points a game.  They scored 67, 67 & 64 for a 66 pt average last week.  In my humble opinion I'd say half of that 18 point drop was probably due to playing better defenses (Amherst/Midd - not Hamilton), and half of it was probably illness (starters not hitting open shots). 

[lefrakenstein]

Been sitting on the sidelines watching and listening to all of the chatter, but something just struck me.  The NESCAC must be a pretty good conference when the #3 team in the country drops to #3 in the conference with a one on the right hand column. 

Or you must not play a lot of conference games.

Got to love Pat dropping in to dump on the NESCAC. Pat, you were pretty glib about not having Amherst in your top 25 earlier this year. Are they in your top 25 now?

[lefrakenstein]

I know its a couple days away, and people here are still talking Mid/Williams, but LEC/NESCAC matchups this week:

Tuesday:
Amherst @ RIC (the best game, imo)
Tufts @ Mass-Dartmouth
Keene @ Middlebury
Western @ Conn College
Southern Maine @ Colby and on Wednesday:
Wesleyan @ Eastern.

Will we be getting spreads for these games Walzy??

NESCAC / LEC Challenge Spreads

Amherst -10.5
Tufts -23.0
Middlebury -10.0 (O/U: 113.0)
Western Conn -15.5
Southern Maine -20.0
Eastern Conn -1.5

NESCAC will go 3-2 going into that Wes/Eastern game which is basically a toss up. I'll be at the RIC game Tuesday...they always play us tough and actively (especially on defense).

I'll take RIC, Dartmouth, Midd and the over, Conn College, Colby, and Wesleyan.

[frank uible]

My uncle can beat up your uncle!

[madzillagd]

As for Coach Maker, I have to say I'm pretty impressed.  When you think about the fact that he is on pace to enter the NCAA current record books at the end of his fifth year (the minimum years to be recognized) as #1 or #2 of active coaches with the best winning percentage in all of college basketball, and he works part time as a referee during games, that's pretty impressive 

There's no doubt Maker works the referees and honestly I haven't paid that much attention to the other coaches to tell you which ones do and which ones don't.  What I can tell you is that the level of officiating has not been all that great from what I've observed on a game to game basis and I'm typically watching portions of 2-3 games a day across the nation.  There's always going to be good and bad refs, and all of them are going to have good or bad games.  Overall though, there is not a considerable difference between the refs I've seen at this level and what I typically see in high school games (maybe they are the same folks?).  There is however, a difference when you watch a D1 game on tv or in my case when I go to a Sacramento St or UC Davis D1 game.  I'm guessing coming from that level for 17 years and then dealing with this, Maker probably has a tougher time dealing with it than a coach that maybe played D3 and only coached at D3 and is used to this level of officiating. 

[Charles]

As for Coach Maker, I have to say I'm pretty impressed.  When you think about the fact that he is on pace to enter the NCAA current record books at the end of his fifth year (the minimum years to be recognized) as #1 or #2 of active coaches with the best winning percentage in all of college basketball, and he works part time as a referee during games, that's pretty impressive 

There's no doubt Maker works the referees and honestly I haven't paid that much attention to the other coaches to tell you which ones do and which ones don't.  What I can tell you is that the level of officiating has not been all that great from what I've observed on a game to game basis and I'm typically watching portions of 2-3 games a day across the nation.  There's always going to be good and bad refs, and all of them are going to have good or bad games.  Overall though, there is not a considerable difference between the refs I've seen at this level and what I typically see in high school games (maybe they are the same folks?).  There is however, a difference when you watch a D1 game on tv or in my case when I go to a Sacramento St or UC Davis D1 game.  I'm guessing coming from that level for 17 years and then dealing with this, Maker probably has a tougher time dealing with it than a coach that maybe played D3 and only coached at D3 and is used to this level of officiating.

It's really only bad officiating when both Coaches are complaining. If it is just one Coach (and the parents and fans of the losing team) then it is just sour grapes. Referees don't throw games in D3.

[Pat Coleman]

Been sitting on the sidelines watching and listening to all of the chatter, but something just struck me.  The NESCAC must be a pretty good conference when the #3 team in the country drops to #3 in the conference with a one on the right hand column. 

Or you must not play a lot of conference games.

Got to love Pat dropping in to dump on the NESCAC. Pat, you were pretty glib about not having Amherst in your top 25 earlier this year. Are they in your top 25 now?

Just a fact about how standings work -- if you play only a few games, one loss has a chance to drop you a couple spots. And I'm here pretty regularly -- I know you just came back from a couple months off posting but I don't "just drop in."

[remsleep]

Pat...how can you say you don't  "just drop in"?...you've only posted 30,000+ times...lol 

[Pat Coleman]

Hah, yeah -- but that's been over the course of a decade, too. I do read this board regularly, but sometimes not on Saturday. Too much news going on to keep track of.

[nescac1]

Standings can change rapidly also as a product of what in many recent years has been a two-tier league.  Over the last four years (this year to-date of course), Midd as its posters has noted has not lost a single NESCAC game to any team other than Williams and Amherst.  Williams and Amherst can each make the same claim for 3/4 of those years (and for the aberrent year, in each case, injuries were largely to blame for a down year).  So, each of the four years, it's been either a Midd/Williams race (2010), a Midd/Amherst/Williams race (2011 and 2013), or a Midd/Amherst race (2012).  As a result, the top three will shift as soon as one of from that group play each other for the first time.  The rest of NESCAC needs to really step it up to make it more interesting.  A combination of teams with coaching and/or massive personnel transitions (Conn College, Bates, Trinity, Colby) or underachieving (Wesleyan, this year) has made the NESCAC less balanced than it really should be.  Colby and Trinity in particular have stellar hoops traditions to draw upon.  The new Colby coach seems to be turning things around.  Trinity is a bigger question mark due to the perpetual roster turnover, but once again, the Bants have a nice group of frosh to build around IF they actually stick with the program. 

I've said this before and been proven wrong, but I REALLY think next year might FINALLY be different.  Tufts has a VERY strong group of returning players coming back from a very young team, and already has shown that it can play with anyone in the league ... if not this year, then next year I expect the Jumbos to challenge for a league crown and to be a top-25 caliber team (we all thought that about Wesleyan this year, of course, so never any guarantees).  Colby, Conn, and Trinity are all frosh-dominated teams which should be much, MUCH stronger next year.  Bowdoin returns all its players of consequence, and there is always a chance that Swords becomes a big-time force down low as he matures.  Meanwhile, Williams loses its floor leader in Robertson and Amherst/Midd each lose three of their top four players.  Wesleyan on the other hand is going to be hurting, although the Cards do have a strong incoming group of frosh.  But I do think that we could finally see a team other than Midd/Amherst/Williams cracking into the NESCAC top tier next season ...

[7express]

I know its a couple days away, and people here are still talking Mid/Williams, but LEC/NESCAC matchups this week:

Tuesday:
Amherst @ RIC (the best game, imo)
Tufts @ Mass-Dartmouth
Keene @ Middlebury
Western @ Conn College
Southern Maine @ Colby and on Wednesday:
Wesleyan @ Eastern.

Will we be getting spreads for these games Walzy??

NESCAC / LEC Challenge Spreads

Amherst -10.5
Tufts -23.0
Middlebury -10.0 (O/U: 113.0)
Western Conn -15.5
Southern Maine -20.0
Eastern Conn -1.5

NESCAC will go 3-2 going into that Wes/Eastern game which is basically a toss up. I'll be at the RIC game Tuesday...they always play us tough and actively (especially on defense).

I'd like to know which teams you have losing.
I've got Amherst (though RIC covers), Middlebury, Conn College & Tufts.  USM has impressed me this year, actually winning road games think they take out Colby, and Eastern takes out Wesleyan

[7express]

As for the spreads:

RIC.  RIC never gets blown out.  Nation's number 3 defense, offensively challenged though.  Make sure to sit in the back rest seats Walzy, those are behind the benches.  Vistors bench is the closet bench to the entrance to the gym.  I like Amherst about 60-52.
Dartmouth.  Dartmouth is terrible, but 23 on the road is a tough challenge.  I'll take Tufts 77-55.
Keene and over.  Keene can score points and gives up a ton of points as well.  Very laxed attititude fromn the Owls, though they have been playing much, much batter since the calender flipped to 2013.  I say the over/under gets broken pretty easily.  Middlebury 74-68.
Conn College.  -15.5 for Western???  Really??  Is Conn College that bad??  I'll be happy if we can win by 1, yet alone 16, seems too easy.  Conn College 57-56.
Colby.  Much like Tufts, 20 on the road in the middle of conference play is a tall task.  Had a tough game, and long trip @ Western, and have a big game on Saturday vs. Keene state, I don't think they get up, but they do win in the end.  USM 73-59.
Eastern.  Tossup, Eastern has lost 3 straight to Wesleyan.  Wesleyan has been a big dissapointment, but have they have a lot of talent and I don't think anyone on Wesleyan has lost to Eastern in their career, someone correct me if I'm wrong.  Eastern by 4 late, to scrape by a cover.  Eastern 66-62.

[grabtherim]

Count me in the confused column when it comes the health & wellness discussion.  I posted about it and never once used it as an excuse for losing, it was rather an explanation for why the team struggled.  As I pointed out, if you don't get support from your bench when the starters are down you are going to have a harder time winning.  Amh63 I think you are just taking it like we are trying to provide excuses and not acknowledging a good game by Amherst but nobody is doing that.

In fact, we are on the opposite side of it this week against Midd with their injuries. I never once for a second took the Midd comments about their injuries as an excuse.  The fact is they are down now and that played a part in their matchup against Williams.  They aren't making an excuse, I'm not taking it as an excuse - it's just a fact they weren't at full strength.  Any mention of it doesn't lessen the Williams victory in my mind. 

Going into last week Williams was averaging 84.6 points a game.  They scored 67, 67 & 64 for a 66 pt average last week.  In my humble opinion I'd say half of that 18 point drop was probably due to playing better defenses (Amherst/Midd - not Hamilton), and half of it was probably illness (starters not hitting open shots).

Injuries, players with the flu etc etc  are never an excuse. You play with who you have win or lose, end of story.  For the entire season, Middlebury has been without last year's breakout player in Sinnickson and another who gave them a few great defensive minutes each game in Alvarez.  Recently, solid rotation players in Brierly and Bullock have been on the shelf.  Excuse for the Williams or any future losses? Absolutely not.  When someone goes down, someone else has to step things up.  That is what team sports are about.  Middlebury and every other team with hurt players have to find a way or step aside.  There are countless championships which have been won when the teams best player goes down.  It makes the victory all the sweeter.  Best example in my memory is Game 5, 1970 NBA Finals.  Willis Reed, the NBA MVP, Knicks Captain and unquestioned team leader goes down with an awful hip injury.  The team with unheralded Nate Bowman and backup forward Dave Stallworth playing in the middle beats the Baylor, West and Chamberlain led Lakers in that game and then the series when a hobbled Reed makes a two minute appearance in Game 7.