MBB: NESCAC

[nescac1]

Yeah, I don't really see the value in Williams and Midd combining to beat up on the likes of Southern Vermont, Castleton State, St. Joseph's, and (forthcoming) Lyndon State a combined total of seven times this year.  I can understand a few warm-up games vs. poor competition early in the season, especially since NESCAC gets such a late start on its practices, but a glorified scrimmage isn't really going to prep these teams for the tougher games ahead.  But of course, a lot of regional teams are not exactly thrilled to schedule long trips for likely losses to Williams and Midd, and neither has a lot of tough natural competition within a 1.5 hour radius, so hard to know what constraints they are under.  Williams did play WPI each year for a long stretch, and I'd love to see that rivalry resume ... it's really a shame that WPI does not face off against any of the NESCAC big three this year, that would be a fun game. 

The story of the RIC / Amherst game is absolutely bizarre.  Good thing that did not affect the outcome as that would have been one for the all-time pantheon of ref screw-ups.  How all three refs and the scorer (and heck, presumably the coaches and fans, it was a HOME game for RIC, after all) missed that when it happened is equally bizarre, but you can't go back and take points off ten minutes later, no way.   

Other than Colby, a very impressive night for NESCAC overall.  Of course, the LEC is REALLY down this year, but even still, there is some talent in that conference and a lot of NESCAC teams seem to be rounding into form at the right time.  Aaron Toomey after a quiet start to the year has to be as hot as anyone in the country over the last few weeks ... we talked about a prospective Nolan Thompson -- Dibartolomeo match-up, but just as interesting will be to see if Thompson can slow Toomey (I assume he'll get the assignment) down next weekend.  Toomey's last four games: 26 ppg, 5 apg, 5 rpg, 16-28 from three, two wins over top-25 teams with some of the best defensive stats in the country. 

[frank uible]

If Williams wants to appear as less of a bully in such games as the Southern Vermont one, then it should leave its starting five in the stands.

[grabtherim]

If Williams wants to appear as less of a bully in such games as the Southern Vermont one, then it should leave its starting five in the stands.

I understand the mixed feelings when it comes to these games.  The NESCAC schedule is demanding on an emotional basis as much as a physical one.  Playing teams in your conference one time each puts much more pressure on every game versus knowing you will get a second shot against the opponent later in the season.  Given all of this, an out of conference game which may not be a knock down fight could end up being helpful to a NESCAC team in the big picture.  Perhaps the coach gets to use some combinations and get some guys on the floor to see what they might do in a NESCAC game later on.  Further, the schedule is made well in advance when it's quite possible the game could be a good contest.  Case in point was last season when Keene, with largely the same squad they had last night, played an excellent game in defeating #1 and undefeated Middlebury in front of a raucous home crowd. 

Finally, I think if you polled the players and coaches on every squad who played last night, NO ONE would characterize the games as "bullying" as Frank in his usual holier than thou way states.  That statement is insulting to everyone on both sides of every game played last night.  Each time I read one of his smug know it all comments clearly designed to amuse himself above anyone else, I remember watching those horrible archived Williams Football shows which prove definitively that he does not have the onions to be the same condescending wiseacre when a coach especially one wearing purple is sitting next to him.         

[maineman]

Yeah, I don't really see the value in Williams and Midd combining to beat up on the likes of Southern Vermont, Castleton State, St. Joseph's, and (forthcoming) Lyndon State a combined total of seven times this year.  I can understand a few warm-up games vs. poor competition early in the season, especially since NESCAC gets such a late start on its practices, but a glorified scrimmage isn't really going to prep these teams for the tougher games ahead.  But of course, a lot of regional teams are not exactly thrilled to schedule long trips for likely losses to Williams and Midd, and neither has a lot of tough natural competition within a 1.5 hour radius, so hard to know what constraints they are under.  Williams did play WPI each year for a long stretch, and I'd love to see that rivalry resume ... it's really a shame that WPI does not face off against any of the NESCAC big three this year, that would be a fun game. 

The story of the RIC / Amherst game is absolutely bizarre.  Good thing that did not affect the outcome as that would have been one for the all-time pantheon of ref screw-ups.  How all three refs and the scorer (and heck, presumably the coaches and fans, it was a HOME game for RIC, after all) missed that when it happened is equally bizarre, but you can't go back and take points off ten minutes later, no way.   

Other than Colby, a very impressive night for NESCAC overall.  Of course, the LEC is REALLY down this year, but even still, there is some talent in that conference and a lot of NESCAC teams seem to be rounding into form at the right time.  Aaron Toomey after a quiet start to the year has to be as hot as anyone in the country over the last few weeks ... we talked about a prospective Nolan Thompson -- Dibartolomeo match-up, but just as interesting will be to see if Thompson can slow Toomey (I assume he'll get the assignment) down next weekend.  Toomey's last four games: 26 ppg, 5 apg, 5 rpg, 16-28 from three, two wins over top-25 teams with some of the best defensive stats in the country.

I wonder why Midd and Wiilliams don't play Norwich anymore?  They aren't an exceptional team, but probably better than Southern Vt.  And the distance would allow for a mid week game.

[madzillagd]

I take the Williams-SV matchup as Williams being a good neighbor and nothing more.  Winning those games doesn't provide Williams with any positives to their SOS and while it does give them a chance to play the reserves, it doesn't make the team any better.  What it does do is lend some support to a neighboring school 15 miles down the road whose program has struggled for years.  My assumption is that SV coaches highlight those games for recruits as well as the Midd game.  This is their chance to compete against some of the top programs in the country even if they themselves don't have the talent to get into a NESCAC school etc.   I don't think you really need to play them twice, but I think it's a good thing that Williams schedules them at least once a year no matter how bad they are doing. 

[Charles]

I take the Williams-SV matchup as Williams being a good neighbor and nothing more.  Winning those games doesn't provide Williams with any positives to their SOS and while it does give them a chance to play the reserves, it doesn't make the team any better.  What it does do is lend some support to a neighboring school 15 miles down the road whose program has struggled for years.  My assumption is that SV coaches highlight those games for recruits as well as the Midd game.  This is their chance to compete against some of the top programs in the country even if they themselves don't have the talent to get into a NESCAC school etc.   I don't think you really need to play them twice, but I think it's a good thing that Williams schedules them at least once a year no matter how bad they are doing.

Don't fool your self that there aren't plenty of kids all over New England and the country that are plenty talented enough to play at a NESCAC school but had SATs or grades that fell short. Know of an all state player that was recruited hard by Midd, Wes, Bates, Trinity and Bowdoin with a 3.4 GPA and 1700 SATs that applied and didn't get in to a few of those schools. 

[madzillagd]

Don't fool your self that there aren't plenty of kids all over New England and the country that are plenty talented enough to play at a NESCAC school but had SATs or grades that fell short. Know of an all state player that was recruited hard by Midd, Wes, Bates, Trinity and Bowdoin with a 3.4 GPA and 1700 SATs that applied and didn't get in to a few of those schools.

I'm going to venture a guess that a school that is now 2-41 over the past 2 years is not carrying a ton of NESCAC-level talent on their roster.  I never said other NE schools don't have NESCAC level talent, I said SV doesn't seem to be displaying that - at least in their current state.  Playing against NESCAC schools however should help them bring in more talent as opposed to not getting a chance to play that matchup.  Maybe I'm wrong and folks on the board can highlight current SV players that were recruited to NESCAC schools.

[amh63]

Well, it is going to be 75 in MD today, and I'm excited about going up North to see some LIVE games in LeFrak.....before becoming a temp snow bird....guess I am about as crazy as the game I watched last night.  Thought about what I wanted to add about the game not stated by Walzy and recapped on the Amherst website and on the D3 hoops website.  Guys, conference got some good press about the wins last night.  First, as posted earlier, Williams is trying to make changes to their schedule for next year...and beyond....home and home series type.  It is a start. Again, see the line on the general board titled...Basketball Dates Open or something like that.

Decided to add some atmosphere type comments and things heard.  The RIC announcers were good, neutral and well prepared with detail data about the Amherst team players....scoring average, key players to watch, etc. and even a great deal of info about Aaron T's high school BB times and teammates....like the Div1 schools that recruited them, etc.  As the game progressed, and Aaron started to "torch" their defensive minded team....comments started to be made like.....Div1 player talent....best D3 point guard seen on the RIC floor.  It was pointed out that there were Providence College players seen in the stands checking out the game.....RIC had played Div 1 Providence College early in the season.....talk about out of conference scheduling!
The announcers were in the dark too about what was the reason for the game delay.  When Coach Walsh of RIC, , in their normal after the game interview, was asked about the delay....the comments from the Coach...upon reflecting on them overnight, leads me to state here that I find it as part of his "tactics" used in the late stages of the game to win.  Why?
Coach Walsh knows that his team in order to win must do so by defense....he even stated it.  Even 7Express has reported on his board that RIC is often "offensively challenged at times".  RIC's coach told the announcers that based on a game against Keene last season, he knew that an error/mistake at a particular time could be officially corrected at another time in the game.  It answers the question to me of why didn't the score keeper not report their error to someone earlier.  When the refs reported the foul to the scorer's table, someone miss heard the team involved.  RIC had started a full court press in the last few minutes of the game trying to get more chances to score as Amherst had built up a lead of 9-10 points, I believe.  RIC's coach shuttles his players back and forth for offensive and defensive reasons. 
The long delay did impact , IMO, Amherst's focus a bit as there were turnovers made....including a slip.
Overall, what did Amherst learn/gain from the game last night?  What did RIC learn?
RIC learned, IMO, what others have learned...you may have fine players that pride themselves on playing defense...but when Aaron is given one player to beat....though several fresh players were rotated on him.....he will control the game and find ways to beat you.  Last night it was scoring among other things.
Amherst learned that anything can happen on a road trip to Rhode Island.  That they were challenged by quick, athletic talented players...playing in your face defense.  Amherst had to make adjustment to a tough full court press...a defense they had not played against this year.  Errors were made and time outs were taken by Amherst to make adjustments.  Amherst confirmed that a Toomey and Kalema backcourt late in the game, sharing the ball, will beat fine ranked teams both inside and out...Kalema even made the last 3-point shot taken. 
Several other loose items....illustrating the intensity of the game.  Killian gets fouled outside on a 3-point attempt and makes the 3 foul shots.  Kaaslla left wide open with no one around as Amherst beats the full court press.  Williamson makes a steal and races downcourt to score.....RIC's fine center follows him and goal tends the layup...makes a statement...wakes up the home crowd a bit.

[Charles]

Well, it is going to be 75 in MD today, and I'm excited about going up North to see some LIVE games in LeFrak.....before becoming a temp snow bird....guess I am about as crazy as the game I watched last night.  Thought about what I wanted to add about the game not stated by Walzy and recapped on the Amherst website and on the D3 hoops website.  Guys, conference got some good press about the wins last night.  First, as posted earlier, Williams is trying to make changes to their schedule for next year...and beyond....home and home series type.  It is a start. Again, see the line on the general board titled...Basketball Dates Open or something like that.

Decided to add some atmosphere type comments and things heard.  The RIC announcers were good, neutral and well prepared with detail data about the Amherst team players....scoring average, key players to watch, etc. and even a great deal of info about Aaron T's high school BB times and teammates....like the Div1 schools that recruited them, etc.  As the game progressed, and Aaron started to "torch" their defensive minded team....comments started to be made like.....Div1 player talent....best D3 point guard seen on the RIC floor.  It was pointed out that there were Providence College players seen in the stands checking out the game.....RIC had played Div 1 Providence College early in the season.....talk about out of conference scheduling!
The announcers were in the dark too about what was the reason for the game delay.  When Coach Walsh of RIC, , in their normal after the game interview, was asked about the delay....the comments from the Coach...upon reflecting on them overnight, leads me to state here that I find it as part of his "tactics" used in the late stages of the game to win.  Why?
Coach Walsh knows that his team in order to win must do so by defense....he even stated it.  Even 7Express has reported on his board that RIC is often "offensively challenged at times".  RIC's coach told the announcers that based on a game against Keene last season, he knew that an error/mistake at a particular time could be officially corrected at another time in the game.  It answers the question to me of why didn't the score keeper not report their error to someone earlier.  When the refs reported the foul to the scorer's table, someone miss heard the team involved.  RIC had started a full court press in the last few minutes of the game trying to get more changes to score as Amherst had built up a lead of 9-10 points, I believe.  RIC shuttles his players back and forth for offensive and defensive reasons. 
The long delay did impact , IMO, Amherst's focus a bit as there were turnovers made....including a slip.
Overall, what did Amherst learn/gain from the game last night?  What did RIC learn?
RIC learned, IMO, what others have learned...you may have fine players that pride themselves on playing defense...but when Aaron is given one player to beat....though several fresh players were rotated on him.....he will control the game and find ways to beat you.  Last night it was scoring among other things.
Amherst learned that anything can happen on a road trip to Rhode Island.  That they were challenged by quick, athletic talented players...playing in your face defense.  Amherst had to make adjustment to a tough full court press...a defense they had not played against this year.  Errors were made and time outs were taken by Amherst to make adjustments.  Amherst confirmed that a Toomey and Kalema backcourt late in the game, sharing the ball, will beat fine ranked times both inside and out...Kalema even made the last 3-point shot taken. 
Several other loose items....illustrating the intensity of the game.  Killian gets fouled outside on a 3-point attempt and makes the 3 foul shots.  Kaaslla left wide open with no one around as Amherst beats the full court press.  Williamson makes a steal and races downcourt to score.....RIC's fine center follows him and goal tends the layup...makes a statement...wakes up the home crowd a bit.

The announcers also went off about the foul by Toomey on Sanders at the 5:27 mark....

[amh63]

Thanks Charles....missed that point....guess I had other points to make and attempting....and failing at it...brevity.

[7express]

Thanks Charles....missed that point....guess I had other points to make and attempting....and failing at it...brevity.

You gonna be up on Friday as well or just Saturday??  I can't make it Saturday (Western game) but I'm gonna try to get outta work early on Friday and get up to those games Friday night

[amh63]

7Express....Taking the train up on Thursday morning to avoid any weather traps for the 6 PM game on Friday.  My host and driver will try to make it up to LeFrak from East Lyme CT to catch a bite before the games.  Stealing my wife's new IPad and if I can figure it out we may be able to  keep in touch....let me know if you can join us before the game...my treat.  Drive carefully.

[lefrakenstein]

I gave 7Express a +1. I owe Lefrakenstein a bunch since he went perfect.

All of you doubted the Colby +20 line. This is...not the year of the Mule.

Beginners luck on the Walzy spreads.

In other news, I figured out a way to get my PER spreadsheet to auto-update after every NESCAC game using fancy macros and such, which I'm pretty proud of, as nerdy as that may be.

Top ten PERs in the league currently (min 60 mins played):

Aaron Toomey   Amherst   28.28
Michael Mayer   Williams   27.05
George Papadeas   Trinity   26.61
Ben Ferris           Tufts      26.34
Stephen HaladynaTufts      25.64
Tom Palleschi   Tufts      25.34
Connor Green   Amherst   23.70
Peter Kaasila   Amherst   23.52
Matt Hart           Hamilton   23.49
Graham Safford   Bates      22.50


Top 10 Estimated Wins Added (I added in a positional corrective for the EWA to give the guards a little boost. Hollinger does this also.)

Aaron Toomey   Amherst   1.63
Michael Mayer   Williams   1.33
Ben Ferris           Tufts      1.28
Matt Hart           Hamilton   1.26
Mike Callaghan   Wes      1.26
Tom Palleschi   Tufts           1.26
Shasha Brown   Wes      1.19
Stephen HaladynaTufts           1.13
Joey Kizel           Midd      1.12
Andrew Madlinger   Bowdoin   1.05

Takeaways: Between Ferris and the two Tufts freshman, the Jumbos are a dangerous bunch

[Pat Coleman]

So, I know there aren't many Bowdoin posters in general on the site, but for those who are interested (and for the Midd folks who may be traveling), I will be at Bowdoin on Friday night as well as at Amherst on Saturday.

Thursday at Clark, Friday at Bowdoin, Saturday at Amherst, Sunday at Brandeis. And since I have to be in NYC on Monday for a work event, I'll be at Medgar Evers on Monday night.

[amh63]

Old Guy....just wanted to let you know that I enjoyed the ref/ump story that you posted.  Taking the time to relate a story that you and others may enjoy...related to brevity and my lack of....
Posted earlier  that my wife treated me to a Chopin concert.  The featured pianist stated that his great love of Chopin was in part due to Chopin's Genius in knowing what to leave out of small, but great pieces of music.  The pianist goes on to relate that the famous French mathematician Pascal in a long letter to a friend....ended the letter by apologizing for the length of the letter....by saying that he did NOT have the time to write a short one.
I took that story to imply that it will be a long and tedious effort for me to be brief...since I'm not a genius.

Of a more personal nature.... of what you have to look forward to in Young Guy.
Recently, I found out that my two sons and their wives will be seeking some "down time" in the Amherst area this weekend with friends from college days.  Amherst becomes a "vacation place" when you work/live in NYC.  Expect to see them at a Saturday game...they enjoy BB and need to pick up a credit card from me.  My advice?  It never changes when you go meet family at college stomping grounds...even a decade or more after graduations.