MBB: NESCAC

[jayhawk]

Wow Hixon is a winner and people are jealous of winners
some of this sounds like sore grapes like to me.
I respect Maker but you don't think he or other coaches in NESCAC may have critics?
Middlebury did not lose the game because of a  single foul shot, why didn't someone box out Workman on his foul shot?Did I read that this happened to Middlebury before this year?
Amherst had control of the game and they became careless to let Middlebury back in
Middlebury played great ball especially considering they had their back against the wall
None of you my guess know Hixon or what all the different coaches say about each other or are thinking
I hate what this board starts to say things that seem to make it personal-does not seem very classy to me

[middhoops]

I relent.
Superior arguments prevail.  If indeed it was Hixon who punctuated Jensen's foul shot, it was bush league.  You are right that there is a definitive difference between fan behavior and what is expected of coaches. 
However, being an a-hole doesn't diminish the fact of what his team accomplished in the NESCAC this year.  I wouldn't vote for him for reasons previously stated.  I don't want to have a beer with the guy (just his recruiting list), but c'mon; at some point do his accomplishments overcome his personality?
I ask that question only to non-(fellow) Midd or Amherst fans.

[madzillagd]

I could care less if a coach yell's box out, or a player, etc.  Not sure why it's such a big deal.  Every player deals with that kind of distraction from the time they start playing in elementary school.  It's a basketball game, not a golf tournament.  Noise, distraction, psychological tactics are all part of the game.  Maybe that's just a West coast thing versus an East coast thing but I'd venture to guess at least 50% of the coaches out here in the West will yell something to their players during a free throw on a regular basis.  It's a pretty common tactic.  Similar to the players in the lane raising their hands to 'box out' right as the shooter is going into their motion.  Most refs out here will let the players in the lane even talk to each other during the opponent's free throw as long as they are not yelling. 

Just another perspective on it.  What may be a 'bush league' tactic in the East is just another day at the office in this part of the world. 

[nescac1]

Madzillagd, you suggesting that West Coast hoops is tougher than East Coast hoops?  Oh, it's ON brother . 

Wow.  The back-and-forth on Hixon is reminiscent of the same discussion about the Amherst men's soccer coach on another section of this board.  Hixon can be defended, or attacked, just like Serpone (the soccer coach).  But what is clear is that it's not about being jealous of a winner.  Coaches Brown and Maker are winners, too, remember.  Just like in soccer Coach Russo is a winner.  You generally don't hear their tactics called into question.  When people consistently piss off their peers, there is usually a reason.  Lots of folks who win year in and year out are still loved and respected by those they compete against.  I just don't think it's fair to attribute any critique of a successful coach to "jealously," particular when certain successful coaches seem to consistently do things to piss people off, while others do not.

In all events, grabtherim and others are rightfully focused first and foremost on the tremendous caliber of play by a large number of players involved in that battle for the ages. 

Midd was, indeed, victimized by the same circumstance vs. Wesleyan, but came back to win.  Given that this has only happened ONCE in D-1 hoops in recent years based on that study, to happen twice to Midd in the same season is quite a stroke of bad fortune ... of course, they did manage to nevertheless win one of those two games. 

[LarryBasketball33]

I love the back and forth and respect the Amherst folks for sticking up for their coach.  Brillaint game.  I was there last night and it was obvious and clouded but did not affect the result.  I dont think anyone is saying he changed the outcome.  No, I dont know Coach Hixon nor am I jealous of his "winning".  I could care less if he spends his days visting sick kid in hospitals and feeding the homeless, he did what he did.  It's Bush League in California, Vermont or Timbuktoo. 

[madzillagd]

Madzillagd, you suggesting that West Coast hoops is tougher than East Coast hoops?  Oh, it's ON brother . 

Don't get people attacking me for something YOU said.  I'm just pointing out we are not quite as civilized out here I guess when it comes to game etiquette as our Eastern brethren so what took place in this game doesn't seem like a big deal to me. 

[lefrakenstein]

Final top 15 in PER:

George Papadeas   Trinity   32.85
Michael Mayer   Williams   30.57
Ben Ferris   Tufts   29.06
Aaron Toomey   Amherst   26.70
Stephen Haladyna   Tufts   26.39
John Swords   Bowdoin   26.02
Luke Westman   Colby   25.96
Rashid Epps   Wes   25.77
Peter Kaasila   Amherst   25.15
Joey Kizel   Midd   24.03
Tom Palleschi   Tufts   23.15
Willy Workman   Amherst   22.64
Bradley Gifford   Hamilton   22.06
Maximilian Staiger   Bowdoin   22.05
Sam Willson   Colby   22.02

Final Top 15 in EWA added:

Michael Mayer   Williams   2.88
Aaron Toomey   Amherst   2.87
Joey Kizel   Midd   2.52
Ben Ferris   Tufts   2.13
Willy Workman   Amherst   2.05
Nolan Thompson   Midd   1.99
George Papadeas   Trinity   1.94
Peter Kaasila   Amherst   1.94
Shasha Brown   Wes   1.88
Stephen Haladyna   Tufts   1.82
Matt Hart   Hamilton   1.79
Scott Anderson   Tufts   1.69
Mike Callaghan   Wes   1.62
Tom Palleschi   Tufts   1.55
Daniel Wohl   Williams   1.47


Thompson's lock down performance on Toomey caused AT to fall in the PER rankings and just allowed Mayer to edge him for the lead in EWA.

That said, I think Toomey is the clear POY. Also, since the pace adjustments, Midd faring much better. Seems like the adjustment leads to better results.

My pre-tourny all-conference would look like:

1st: Toomey; Mayer; Kizel; Ferris; Workman;
2nd: Thompson; Kaasila; Brown; Anderson; Staiger Pieri

POY: Toomey; DOY: Thompson; COY:Hixon; ROY: Hart

I predict that it will likely look more like:

1st: Toomey; Mayer; Kizel; Anderson; Workman
2nd: Thompson; Brown; Vadas; Epley; Callaghan  (or maybe Madlinger)

POY: Toomey COY: Sheldon DOY: Thompson ROY:Hart

On the Hixon thing, if he did do it (I wasn't there, so I can only go off what's on this forum), that's a pretty egregious violation of good sportsmanship. I don't see how that's arguable. Saying that it wasn't illegal or didn't affect the outcome doesn't change that it was a crappy thing to do.

Lastly, does anyone know where/when the full game video will be posted?

[amh63]

The game played last night was best summarized by the early post game remarks like...epic, best game, and so forth.   Good inciteful analyses have followed.  I am disappointed that posters have gone into opinning about things that only distracts from the positive aspects of a game for the ages....the great intense play of the players on the floor over 55 minutes.
I can understand a little of the latent bitterness of some posters.   If Amherst had lost, I
I may have been posting about the questionable no calls at critical times...the hard foul on Kalema on a layup that took him out of the game,  the no call on an Aaron drive and the hit to the head that knocked Toomey to the ground at the end of an OT....the refs went to the monitors to see if there was a foul that could have changed the game....new rule this year...blow to the head is an intentional foul.
In the end, the refs let the players play it out...so to speak....no touchy fouls ...rather good tight defense, etc.   The will be a video of the game available so watch it with neutral eyes if that is possible.  I have seen to many games that fouls were called where no calls were called last night....enjoy the game you saw in a positive way....talking about coaches behavior in such a game is petty and at the end of the day not related,IMO.   

[Bucket]

Wow Hixon is a winner and people are jealous of winners
some of this sounds like sore grapes like to me.
I respect Maker but you don't think he or other coaches in NESCAC may have critics?
Middlebury did not lose the game because of a  single foul shot, why didn't someone box out Workman on his foul shot?Did I read that this happened to Middlebury before this year?
Amherst had control of the game and they became careless to let Middlebury back in
Middlebury played great ball especially considering they had their back against the wall
None of you my guess know Hixon or what all the different coaches say about each other or are thinking
I hate what this board starts to say things that seem to make it personal-does not seem very classy to me

Did not effect the result. Never said that. In fact, I specifically mentioned that it did not effect the result.

I promise you that it is not sour grapes. Would have had the same opinion whether Midd won or lost.

You're right, I don't know Dave Hixon. I can only comment on what I saw. And heard. And I'm sure that Mike Maker and Jeff Brown have critics, but I have never heard the words "classless" and "unsportsmanlike" applied to either man. I have heard this about Dave Hixon before, but had not witnessed it first-hand until yesterday. Is it simply a case of being jealous of winners? Well, no Division III coach has a greater winning percentage during the last five years than Jeff Brown. And Mike Maker has been to two Final Fours in the past five years (as opposed to none for Dave Hixon during the same time frame). Seems to me it's not about winning. 

I do maintain that such behavior is a big deal. Coaches—especially coaches at the Division III level—are here to build character, to teach, to instill in their players fundamental values. Games last 40 minutes. But the impact of the coaches on the players, the impact of the players on the community, can last a lifetime.

Look, I hope we never have occasion to talk about this again. Frankly, i wasn't going to weigh in at all until the discussion arose elsewhere. (And I follow-up in this post to make sure that my intentions were not misunderstood.)

Let's get back to basketball, specifically your comment about Midd not boxing out on Willy's free throw: A brilliant, brilliant move by Willy Workman. He quick shoots the ball as soon as the ref hands it to him—perfectly legal, savvy, savvy move—catching the Midd players a split-second off guard. This gave Willy the opportunity to make the put back to tie the game. Granted, he still needed to execute perfectly—and he did—but it was all made possible by his quick shot. What a play. 

[nescac1]

Lefrankenstein, thanks again for compiling those numbers, interesting.  Not sure where you get Staiger from, though, he's no better than the fourth best guy on Bowdoin after Pieri, Hurley, Madlinger.  I don't think he is one of the 20 most valuable guys in NESCAC, let alone ten most valuable. 

I think if Williams makes it as far as the NESCAC final, Nate Robertson may get some love from the coaches.  Coaches really respect his game, he's never been all-conference, and he makes Williams go.  The numbers just don't tell the full story with him (and  outside of three point shooting, his numbers are still very solid).  I think only one from him or Taylor Epley would make a conference team, but as a senior Nate might get the edge. 

Taylor Epley is the toughest call.  If you look at his numbers in all but the two Amherst and Midd games (when he was covered by the best defenders by far in the league) they are off the charts.  But in those big games he really struggled and did not play at an all-NESCAC level (again, not that many do vs. Workman/Thompson). 

Very tough to pick this year but I'd probably go Toomey / Mayer / Workman / Kizell on the first team, with the last spot for either Thompson, Ferris, Sha Brown, or Anderson, depending on how they play in the NESCAC tourney. 

[Charles]

The game played last night was best summarized by the early post game remarks like...epic, best game, and so forth.   Good inciteful analyses have followed.  I am disappointed that posters have gone into opinning about things that only distracts from the positive aspects of a game for the ages....the great intense play of the players on the floor over 55 minutes.
I can understand a little of the latent bitterness of some posters.   If Amherst had lost, I
I may have been posting about the questionable no calls at critical times...the hard foul on Kalema on a layup that took him out of the game,  the no call on an Aaron drive and the hit to the head that knocked Toomey to the ground at the end of an OT....the refs went to the monitors to see if there was a foul that could have changed the game....new rule this year...blow to the head is an intentional foul.
In the end, the refs let the players play it out...so to speak....no touchy fouls ...rather good tight defense, etc.   The will be a video of the game available so watch it with neutral eyes if that is possible.  I have seen to many games that fouls were called where no calls were called last night....enjoy the game you saw in a positive way....talking about coaches behavior in such a game is petty and at the end of the day not related,IMO.

sorry that play was the biggest flop all time, and i thought he made that 3 pointer and was fouled before that. It was a well played and exciting game just enjoy it for that. There were so many flops in that game seemed like i was at a fish market. and can the players just accept a call instead of whining about EVERY single call? The NESCAC already has a reputation for players flopping and complaining. They're good players, just play.

[lefrakenstein]

Lefrankenstein, thanks again for compiling those numbers, interesting.  Not sure where you get Staiger from, though, he's no better than the fourth best guy on Bowdoin after Pieri, Hurley, Madlinger.  I don't think he is one of the 20 most valuable guys in NESCAC, let alone ten most valuable. 

I think if Williams makes it as far as the NESCAC final, Nate Robertson may get some love from the coaches.  Coaches really respect his game, he's never been all-conference, and he makes Williams go.  The numbers just don't tell the full story with him (and  outside of three point shooting, his numbers are still very solid).  I think only one from him or Taylor Epley would make a conference team, but as a senior Nate might get the edge. 

Taylor Epley is the toughest call.  If you look at his numbers in all but the two Amherst and Midd games (when he was covered by the best defenders by far in the league) they are off the charts.  But in those big games he really struggled and did not play at an all-NESCAC level (again, not that many do vs. Workman/Thompson). 

Very tough to pick this year but I'd probably go Toomey / Mayer / Workman / Kizell on the first team, with the last spot for either Thompson, Ferris, Sha Brown, or Anderson, depending on how they play in the NESCAC tourney.

You're right, sorry, I was thinking of Pieri. I get them mixed up for some reason.

Also, WPI still ahead of Amherst in the regional rankings. I wonder if both win out (still a long way to go on that front) if Amherst would overtake them. I'm guessing probably not.

[frank uible]

Not unreasonably one can debate whether or not Hixon's action is "bush league" - but the smart money asks "what absolute standard of conduct more elevated than 'bush league' should be mandated for coaches in the bushes?"

[LarryBasketball33]

The game played last night was best summarized by the early post game remarks like...epic, best game, and so forth.   Good inciteful analyses have followed.  I am disappointed that posters have gone into opinning about things that only distracts from the positive aspects of a game for the ages....the great intense play of the players on the floor over 55 minutes.
I can understand a little of the latent bitterness of some posters.   If Amherst had lost, I
I may have been posting about the questionable no calls at critical times...the hard foul on Kalema on a layup that took him out of the game,  the no call on an Aaron drive and the hit to the head that knocked Toomey to the ground at the end of an OT....the refs went to the monitors to see if there was a foul that could have changed the game....new rule this year...blow to the head is an intentional foul.
In the end, the refs let the players play it out...so to speak....no touchy fouls ...rather good tight defense, etc.   The will be a video of the game available so watch it with neutral eyes if that is possible.  I have seen to many games that fouls were called where no calls were called last night....enjoy the game you saw in a positive way....talking about coaches behavior in such a game is petty and at the end of the day not related,IMO.

Very funny.  You say if Amherst lost you would be doing exactly what you tell others not to do after your team won.  IMO, not talking about this bush league behavior would be worse than petty, it would be accepting of it happening again.  Anyway, enough of this, let's start thinking about the upcoming weekend.  Can anyone knock off the top 3. To me the answer is yes on 2/3.  IMO, Amherst/Colby is a layup for Amherst.  That being said I give Bates a real shot a beating Williams and Wesleyan could be the most primed to catch a Panther team they have come close to but not beaten under Reilly.   

[grabtherim]

Not unreasonably one can debate whether or not Hixon's action is "bush league" - but the smart money asks "what absolute standard of conduct more elevated than 'bush league' should be mandated for coaches in the bushes?"

Man, I just got the chills thinking I was back in metaphysics 101.  Can someone please supply an english translation?