MBB: NESCAC

[7express]

2013 NESCAC Championship Game

Williams @ Amherst
Amherst -4.5
O/U: 145.5

Amherst Over.  The previous 2 meetings were blowouts and even though its Amherst/Williams and for the NESCAC championship, don't see this being much different then the first 2.

[Old Guy]

That out of bounds situation in the overtime was very confusing, but crucial. Midd was down two with the ball in the final minute, is that right? I think so. Bucket and I were standing about 25' from the play, had a great view. I saw Lynch drive the baseline well-guarded, double-teamed, threw up an off-balance shot or pass that I thought might have hit the backside of the basket (is that out-of-bounds?). Evidently the thought was it hit the bottom of the frame of the basket (in-bound). It came off to an Eph player (Mayer, I think) who carried the ball over the end-line out-of-bounds. Panthers (me too) protested the call giving the Ephs the ball. It was a crucial possession as the rest of the game amounted to fouling Mayer who hit his foul shots (six in the OT, I believe). Maybe someone will post the video.

Good game. Well-played. Great vocal Midd crowd, parents, basketball alums. Hard losing another one of these games: three losses overall - two in OTs, the other by a single point, to top ten teams (Wms twice, Amherst). Lynch and Mayer both played great.

I came down to Amherst with Young Guy after his basketball practice this morning which lasted till noon. Got to the game when it was 6-6. Driving wasn't too bad. Wish we could have gone home with a win. Don't know if I'll watch the game tomorrow (on-line). I'm tired of those guys. I'll feel better in the morning. If I watch it will be with the sound off. Probably will watch. 

[madzillagd]

The ball definitely hit the backboard but it looked to be on the bottom which I believe is in.  Mayer is the one who caught it and lost his balance taking him over the line - but he was in the air so technically not out of bounds until you touch the ground (no different than the great Kizel save).  I think the question was when he threw it at Lynch did it hit him directly or did the ball hit the ground then hit him.  They ruled it hit him so it was Ephs ball.

[Panthernation]

Disappointing loss for Middlebury, first and foremost. Thought it was one of the worst reffed games I've seen in a long time (and that goes both ways in this case), but when a team shoots 8-30 from beyond the arc and 4-9 from the free throw line, it rarely wins.

I won't spend much time summing up the game, as others have already done a very good job (nescac1 I thought you had most of it exactly right), but I can add clarity to a few questions and disagree with a few points made.

First, what we've termed the "Mayer play" is a misnomer. What Mayer did — while both smart and athletic — had no bearing on the play whatsoever, and was not the source of the complaints on the Panther bench (though I can't speak to the players on the floor at the time I spoke with an assistant coach after the game who explained what happened). Before Mayer threw the ball off of Lynch, Lynch attempted a pass that hit the backside of the backboard, above the padding. As soon as that happened, the ball was out of bounds, per the NCAA rulebook: "The ball shall be out of bounds when it touches a player who is out of bounds; any other person, the floor or any object on or outside a boundary; the supports or back of the backboard; or the ceiling, overhead equipment or supports."

Coaches on both teams reacted angrily on the play, Maker first because he wanted the call immediately (rather than relying on what the officials may or may not have seen with Mayer's play) while the Middlebury coaching staff was upset because they felt that Lynch's pass was tipped (it looked like it from where I was sitting, but again, it all happened very quickly) before it hit the backside of the backboard, which would have meant that the ball went out of bounds and was last touched by Williams. Regardless, the ensuing play by Mayer, though impressive, was moot, and any argument over whether he successfully or unsuccessfully threw the ball off of Peter Lynch before he, or the ball, hit the ground is as well.

This was one of many calls that seemed to baffle the officials on both ends, though it's hard to believe that the Panthers weren't in the bonus in the second half or overtime, despite feeding the ball consistently to Lynch down low.

Finally, while I think Nescac1 did a great job in his summary, I wholeheartedly disagree that Nolan's performance today ends any discussion of him winning NESCAC Player of the Year. If one down performance — and this was certainly a down performance on both ends, by his standards — ruins Nolan's case for NESCAC Player of the Year, then we can also remove Aaron Toomey from the discussion, as Thompson's performance looked no worse than Toomey's 3-10 (1-6 from three) earlier in the day, and was significantly better than the 5-24 (3-11 from three, 4-7 from the line) performance that Toomey had in the 3OT game a week ago.

No one performance makes or breaks a player's candidacy for NESCAC Player of the Year. Rather, consistently excellent play over the course of the season is what determines the award, and no one has been more consistently excellent this season than Nolan Thompson. We have heard many of the arguments for why Thompson should not be the Player of the Year over the last week or so, and will address those tomorrow when we make our final case.

Finally, to end with something that we can all (hopefully) agree on, what Daniel Wohl did today was nothing short of incredible. He performed the NESCAC version of the Jordan flu game, returning to the floor 2-3 weeks after coming down with mono to score 19 points in 31 minutes, making 4 of 6 threes and presenting all kinds of matchup problems defensively for Middlebury. Nescac1, you were right on saying he deserved the game ball.

[nescac1]

Lots of good, insightful comments.

First, other than forcing the ball in transitions leading to turnovers and a few easy scores the other way, I will agree with Bucket that Williams can not play any better offense than it did yesterday -- the half-court sets were astoudingly effective.  In fact, Maker said after the game that it was the best game the team has played since the Guilford game in 2010, and I'd agree with that.  The Ephs executed the half court offense perfectly vs. a very good defensive team, and hit a lot of tough threes to boot.  They will have to play like that again tomorrow, which will be no easy feat.  Defensively, however, Williams could have played a bit better.  Unfortunately, Amherst is tougher to guard than Midd -- more guys who can really hurt you -- so even if Williams plays better on defense (and it wasn't for lack of intensity, just that Midd had the zone diagnosed in the second half, really found that soft spot in the middle, and in man-to-man, Lynch torched them and they didn't help enough / make adjustments), there is no guarantee they will get more stops. 

I agree that Lynch was the best big man on the floor (and the best player, actually) in the Midd-Williams game. Mayer was great too, though.  Yes, he got a lot of great feeds inside, but he still had to convert.  He also scored quite a bit off of second-chance points and did a tremendous job on the offensive boards, and his presence inside, as always, created room for his teammates.  Granted, Mayer didn't have as many high-degree-of-difficulty converts as he typically does, whereas Lynch was really the engine of the Midd offense.  Lynch has improved dramatically each year.  Really knows how to use his strength to create space, and great finishing touch.  I'm happy to see him graduate.  Hard to see where Midd's interior offense will come from next year with Lynch leaving. 

Someone very good will be left off the all-NESCAC teams this year.  If Workman, Toomey, Mayer, Kizell, Thompson are the top five, that leaves Sha Brown, Ben Ferris, Scott Anderson, Matt Vadas, Lynch, Robertson, Epley, and Kaasila as viable candidates for the second team.  Maybe Callaghan too, but Wesleyan's team woes should prevent more than one guy from earning that honor.  All of those guys are very worthy of recognition. 

Mayer is already an elite big guy, but I would like to see him add just two things to his game to make him unstoppable: first, more strength.  Lynch was able to bump into Mayer just enough to create space to shoot over him, despite a height disadvantage.  If Mayer could add another 5-10 pounds of muscle, it would be much tougher to do that.  Second, sometimes he has so many crazy (and effective) moves that he relies just a bit TOO much on finesse in finishing inside.  Every once in awhile I'd love to see him do a quick pump fake and then simply go up strong using his full height and bulk, rather than kind of leaning away as he shoots (something you would normally coach against, but he usually makes those).  He would draw even more fouls that way and keep defenders off balance.  But again, these are minor quibbles of a guy who is an elite offensive player, a very strong rebounder, and an improved defender (who does happen to struggle with Lynch, but he is hardly alone).

Actually, Midd has the two best players on the floor, as Kizell was also out spectacular on both ends.  But Williams has the 3rd through 7th best, and that was the difference, the Ephs' balance.   

Interesting commentary on the crazy Mayer / Lynch play in OT, obviously, could not see what exactly was going on on the webcast.

Agreed that Firepong is an excellent defender.  After the Thompson/Workman duo, he is in the next group (Jack Roberts, Jensen, Robertson, Wohl, Epley and Kalema all belong also) of top-notch NESCAC defenders.  I'm sure there are a few others from outside of the top four teams (Glen Thomas from Wesleyan, for example), but that group has consistently stood out.  Palleschi did little in the first Williams game so I didn't realize just how good he is.  His footwork and moves are incredible for a young guy.  He made Big Pete look silly out there a few times (although struggled at times on defense, no surprise considering he was often matched against Williamson for some reason, no prayer of hanging with him, and had to help off Big Pete a lot -- one-on-one, he did as good a job as you could ask on Kaasila, made him take tough shots at least).  He and Mayer are, by leaps and bounds, the top returning posts in NESCAC. Palleschi-Ferris a great duo to build around for the next year years.  Tufts could use one more interior guy to help Palleschi out, maybe it will be Sabety or a current first-year. 

Finally, not to beat a dead horse, but re: Thompson, I'd say that a NESCAC semifinal game counts for a lot more in determining the POY race than any one (or even two) regular season games vs. outmatched opponents.  If Thompson had separated himself from the field before that game, then yeah, I would give him a pass, but I can't see how you could put him above even Kizell watching the two of them play.  Kizell just makes plays all over the court, on both ends, and makes the entire Midd offense go.  Thompson (usually) nails open shots and locks one man down on defense.  He doesn't really create for his teammates on offense, nor is he a shot-blocking center like an Andrew Locke who changes the entire defensive complexion of the game.  He usually (though not yesterday) takes one great offensive player totally out of the game, but doesn't really affect anyone else on the floor, doesn't get steals or blocks off the ball as a help defender, for example.  What he is -- a steady, clutch, efficient offensive player and the best one-on-one perimeter lock-down defender in NESCAC, maybe ever in NESCAC -- is good enough for first-team all conference in my book.  But I think that, if you ask any coach who they worry about most on Midd, it's Kizell, let alone in NESCAC as a whole.

In two losses vs. Williams this year, here is what Thompson averaged: 6 points, 6.5 boards, 2 assists, despite playing OVER 40 mpg.  Shot 4-14 from the field, 2-9 from 3, 2-5 from three.  Those were two of the three big games Midd played this year.  The fourth biggest game, the one point win over Tufts, he scored 8 points on 2-6 shooting in 36 minutes.  He played much better in the big Amherst game, but when you are a non-factor offensively vs. two of the only three ranked or even also-receiving-votes teams you play all year, you simply can't be POY, not in a league with three to four other potential all-Americans.  Workman would still get my vote for everything he does on both ends.  Thompson would finish, at best, fifth on my ballot.  Most damning of all is this:  Midd played three great teams this year.  They lost all three games.  In those games, Thompson was the second best player for his team in one (vs. Amherst), and no better than the third in the in other two (vs. Williams).  He simply can't be POY based on those performances.  Heck, it's hard to even put him on the first team based on that, but that is where the rest of his entire body of work comes in. 

Compare that to, say Workman.  In three big games vs. Midd and Williams, he played D nearly as effectively as Thompson, but averaged a 22-13-4, and shot lights out from 2 and from 3.  He also played great in both Tufts games.  If two guys both play DPOY-caliber defense (Thompson better at locking down a man one-on-one, but Workman creates a lot more turnovers as he takes more risks), and one elevates his game to dominate offensively vs. elite opponents, and one fades into the woodwork a bit vs. elite opponents, how is this even a conversation??

[trixiep]

Lots of good, insightful comments.

First, other than forcing the ball in transitions leading to turnovers and a few easy scores the other way, I will agree with Bucket that Williams can not play any better offense than it did yesterday -- the half-court sets were astoudingly effective.  In fact, Maker said after the game that it was the best game the team has played since the Guilford game in 2010, and I'd agree with that.  The Ephs executed the half court offense perfectly vs. a very good defensive team, and hit a lot of tough threes to boot.  They will have to play like that again tomorrow, which will be no easy feat.  Defensively, however, Williams could have played a bit better.  Unfortunately, Amherst is tougher to guard than Midd -- more guys who can really hurt you -- so even if Williams plays better on defense (and it wasn't for lack of intensity, just that Midd had the zone diagnosed in the second half, really found that soft spot in the middle, and in man-to-man, Lynch torched them and they didn't help enough / make adjustments), there is no guarantee they will get more stops. 

I agree that Lynch was the best big man on the floor (and the best player, actually) in the Midd-Williams game. Mayer was great too, though.  Yes, he got a lot of great feeds inside, but he still had to convert.  He also scored quite a bit off of second-chance points and did a tremendous job on the offensive boards, and his presence inside, as always, created room for his teammates.  Granted, Mayer didn't have as many high-degree-of-difficulty converts as he typically does, whereas Lynch was really the engine of the Midd offense.  Lynch has improved dramatically each year.  Really knows how to use his strength to create space, and great finishing touch.  I'm happy to see him graduate.  Hard to see where Midd's interior offense will come from next year with Lynch leaving. 

Someone very good will be left off the all-NESCAC teams this year.  If Workman, Toomey, Mayer, Kizell, Thompson are the top five, that leaves Sha Brown, Ben Ferris, Scott Anderson, Matt Vadas, Lynch, Robertson, Epley, and Kaasila as viable candidates for the second team.  Maybe Callaghan too, but Wesleyan's team woes should prevent more than one guy from earning that honor.  All of those guys are very worthy of recognition. 

Mayer is already an elite big guy, but I would like to see him add just two things to his game to make him unstoppable: first, more strength.  Lynch was able to bump into Mayer just enough to create space to shoot over him, despite a height disadvantage.  If Mayer could add another 5-10 pounds of muscle, it would be much tougher to do that.  Second, sometimes he has so many crazy (and effective) moves that he relies just a bit TOO much on finesse in finishing inside.  Every once in awhile I'd love to see him do a quick pump fake and then simply go up strong using his full height and bulk, rather than kind of leaning away as he shoots (something you would normally coach against, but he usually makes those).  He would draw even more fouls that way and keep defenders off balance.  But again, these are minor quibbles of a guy who is an elite offensive player, a very strong rebounder, and an improved defender (who does happen to struggle with Lynch, but he is hardly alone).

Actually, Midd has the two best players on the floor, as Kizell was also out spectacular on both ends.  But Williams has the 3rd through 7th best, and that was the difference, the Ephs' balance.   

Interesting commentary on the crazy Mayer / Lynch play in OT, obviously, could not see what exactly was going on on the webcast.

Agreed that Firepong is an excellent defender.  After the Thompson/Workman duo, he is in the next group (Jack Roberts, Jensen, Robertson, Wohl, Epley and Kalema all belong also) of top-notch NESCAC defenders.  I'm sure there are a few others from outside of the top four teams (Glen Thomas from Wesleyan, for example), but that group has consistently stood out.  Palleschi did little in the first Williams game so I didn't realize just how good he is.  His footwork and moves are incredible for a young guy.  He made Big Pete look silly out there a few times (although struggled at times on defense, no surprise considering he was often matched against Williamson for some reason, no prayer of hanging with him, and had to help off Big Pete a lot -- one-on-one, he did as good a job as you could ask on Kaasila, made him take tough shots at least).  He and Mayer are, by leaps and bounds, the top returning posts in NESCAC. Palleschi-Ferris a great duo to build around for the next year years.  Tufts could use one more interior guy to help Palleschi out, maybe it will be Sabety or a current first-year. 

Finally, not to beat a dead horse, but re: Thompson, I'd say that a NESCAC semifinal game counts for a lot more in determining the POY race than any one (or even two) regular season games vs. outmatched opponents.  If Thompson had separated himself from the field before that game, then yeah, I would give him a pass, but I can't see how you could put him above even Kizell watching the two of them play.  Kizell just makes plays all over the court, on both ends, and makes the entire Midd offense go.  Thompson (usually) nails open shots and locks one man down on defense.  He doesn't really create for his teammates on offense, nor is he a shot-blocking center like an Andrew Locke who changes the entire defensive complexion of the game.  He usually (though not yesterday) takes one great offensive player totally out of the game, but doesn't really affect anyone else on the floor, doesn't get steals or blocks off the ball as a help defender, for example.  What he is -- a steady, clutch, efficient offensive player and the best one-on-one perimeter lock-down defender in NESCAC, maybe ever in NESCAC -- is good enough for first-team all conference in my book.  But I think that, if you ask any coach who they worry about most on Midd, it's Kizell, let alone in NESCAC as a whole.

In two losses vs. Williams this year, here is what Thompson averaged: 6 points, 6.5 boards, 2 assists, despite playing OVER 40 mpg.  Shot 4-14 from the field, 2-9 from 3, 2-5 from three.  Those were two of the three big games Midd played this year.  The fourth biggest game, the one point win over Tufts, he scored 8 points on 2-6 shooting in 36 minutes.  He played much better in the big Amherst game, but when you are a non-factor offensively vs. two of the only three ranked or even also-receiving-votes teams you play all year, you simply can't be POY, not in a league with three to four other potential all-Americans.  Workman would still get my vote for everything he does on both ends.  Thompson would finish, at best, fifth on my ballot.  Most damning of all is this:  Midd played three great teams this year.  They lost all three games.  In those games, Thompson was the second best player for his team in one (vs. Amherst), and no better than the third in the in other two (vs. Williams).  He simply can't be POY based on those performances.  Heck, it's hard to even put him on the first team based on that, but that is where the rest of his entire body of work comes in. 

Compare that to, say Workman.  In three big games vs. Midd and Williams, he played D nearly as effectively as Thompson, but averaged a 22-13-4, and shot lights out from 2 and from 3.  He also played great in both Tufts games.  If two guys both play DPOY-caliber defense (Thompson better at locking down a man one-on-one, but Workman creates a lot more turnovers as he takes more risks), and one elevates his game to dominate offensively vs. elite opponents, and one fades into the woodwork a bit vs. elite opponents, how is this even a conversation??

Wow!

[Bucket]

Funny that one player's 23 & 12 is playing like a beast, and another's 23 & 13 is due to his teammates.  Not sure I understand that logic at all.  They both played their role well and matched each other point for point obviously.  Lynch caught the ball 10 ft and in and finished consistently, Mayer either posted up or dove to the basket on cuts and finished.  Both played well.

I don't understand what the issue was with the Mayer out of bounds play.  Only if it hit the ground first would there be an argument, which it didn't look that way to me but of course I'm watching over the web.  Doesn't matter if the opponent is standing one inch out of bounds or on the ground 5 ft away, it still counts as them being out of bounds so I'm not sure why folks are having a problem with that play. 

Walzy - My issue with the Williams zone is that they use it so much at times it really allows teams to settle in and get comfortable.  Even if teams start out shooting poorly, it seems after a few minutes guys will start to relax and knock down the open 3s....and by open it's usually at least 5-10 ft open.  Ephs got up by 5, subbed out and went to the zone - tie ballgame.  Starters back in, eventually build it up again to 7 - zone and then it's back to a one possession game.  They expend so much energy building a lead and then they give it up in 2-3 minutes of zone, usually on 2-3 threes they give up.  I'd love to see them stay in man for the entire first half and see if they can turn a 7 point lead into twice that going into the half.  Even that first Amherst game, they had the first half lead, subbed out, went to zone, and then got crushed from that point forward as Amherst settled into the groove.  Unfortunately if they do it again tomorrow I expect the same, zone = relaxed shooters that find a rhythm.

From where I was standing--where the baseline meets the sideline, so pretty close--it seemed clear that Mayer threw the ball down at Peter, but the ball hit the floor and then hit Peter on the bounce. I don't want this call to malign the rest of the game though...just wanted to explain what I saw.

[amh63]

Bucket.....were you at Sidwell when Gore and Clinton were around?  To lazy to check the years when you gave me the Adam Harper time reference.  Now that was a great defensive player for Amherst.....was the conference defensive  player of the year his senior year, I believe.  Could score a bit too.  Saw him and his father at a team reception last year in northern Virginia.
Oh yes, there was a BB coach at Sidwell, now the AD at his alma mater, who was a great player in HS...an all metro....and a hs teammate of John Thompson of Providence and the Celtics....played for the big "V" in Philly.
Glad everyone has vented their thoughts on the games yesterday.  Some "bad" experiences it appears online and live.
Adam Harper, class of 04...over 1200 points scored and 321 steals in his playing days, including over 100 steals in a season.  Oh yes, played in a Final 4 game against Williams...a lost though.

[Middfan]

"My other observations are more from a people perspective versus a basketball one.  What posseses grown men to heap personal and nasty comments to kids during great games like these?  You may see fit to chastise me for a double standard, but while I cringe at some of the kid to player stuff heard during a game, I can live with it as to me it is peer to peer, and for all intents and purposes they are still kids.  Am I alone in cringing when I hear the same from adults to kids, usually followed by a rap on the guys arm next to him, and a shared laugh at how witty they are?  To see a young man follow up on his promise to scream out when a 20 year old went to the free throw line was only made worse when he bragged about doing so and promised to keep it up.  Hopefully on reflection he will realize this is not the way he should want others to see him."

As a daily reader but an infrequent poster and an (almost) every game attender, I too was dismayed and disappointed to hear the promised "box out" cry throughout the game from the stands as I watched Ephs v Panthers yesterday.  I thought the heat of the moment had passed and again perspective and class would prevail.  In this case it did not.  Too bad this is a part our memories from this great game. 

[jumpshot]

Those of us who played multiple sports for four years at what are now NESCAC schools have always known that "the game is for the players." In recent years out-of-bounds comments and behavior by certain students, coaches, alumni, parents, fans and posters have increased, only serving to differentiate further those institutions working to retain proper standards reinforced by effective athletic directors, presidents, and student leaders themselves. Anyone can observe the wide range of tone at various NESCAC (and elsewhere) venues.

The comments by Grabtherim and Middfan are accurate and constructive to which I, for one, agree.

Some people will say, "So what?" I guess one either "gets it" or not.

[middhoops]

The the Amherst student announcers just say "Amherst gets athletes like Duke and North Carolina."?  Mute time.

[nescac1]

Great, very even first half in Lefrak.  Live stats are down, but Amherst is up two.  For Williams, it's been the Klemm and Epley show.  Klemm with three treys, Epley scoring effectively from all over, continuing his strong play from yesterday.  Mayer has also made strong contributions.  Daniel Wohl doesn't quite seem to have the same energy as yesterday, and has been quiet.  Nate Robertson with a few pretty plays including and and-one after getting hammered by Kaasila.  For Amherst, Toomey and Workman are both very quiet, which should worry Williams a bit.  Connor Green on fire with two triples, eight overall.  Williamson has also been tough to stop, and he had one highlight reel play, an alley oops in which he caught the pass low and then completed the windmill dunk. 

Williams playing almost all man-to-man defense, which has been more effective than the zone vs. Amherst.  Both teams playing at a very high level and playing like two of the top teams in the country.  Williams has really improved since the last time these teams met, but let's see how much gas in the tank the Ephs have left.  Great turnout by Eph fans after a very quiet cheering section yesterday vs. Midd, Eph fans have been really loud out there and causing a ruckus. 

[grabtherim]

Amherst announcers have to get a pass on their comments as nearly every student announcing team sounds much the same.  Both teams playing well.  If I'm an Amherst fan I would be happy with a two point half time lead despite Toomey and Workman going a combined 1-11 / 3 points. 

[Panthernation]

Please, it's not that hard to be good student announcers. The two of us who run this account broadcast the Middlebury games on the radio and do a good job. Wish we had an opportunity like these guys do on the telecast with a large audience. And they are making a mockery of that opportunity.

[nescac1]

Unbelievable game.  Congrats to Amherst.  Proud of the performance by the Ephs on hostile turf today.  I hope these teams play again very deep in the tourney.  Absolutely heartbreaking as Williamson, who was huge all game for Amherst, blocks a Taylor Epley drive at the buzzer.  Epley deserves kudos for an fantastic game and a fantastic weekend, playing against (presumably) the last two NESCAC DPOY's, he was simply awesome.  Finished today with 22-3-2, 9-14 from the field, was the best player on the court.  How did Amherst beat Williams despite very off days from the two Lord Jeff stars?  Two answers: one, free throw shooting ... Williams missed five, Amherst only one.  The other were second chance points off offensive rebounds inside.

For Amherst, Kaasila, Williamson, and Green were all stellar.  For Williams, Mayer was big down the stretch after a very tough start, and Robertson was also great.  Simply tremendous day by Epley, too bad he couldn't cap it off with one more great play but kudos to Williamson for a very athletic block.  Amherst had to break through vs. Williams in a big-time game at some point, and today was the day.  Both of these teams, however, are going to be very hard to beat in the NCAA tourney.