MBB: NESCAC

[Titan Q]

I don't think any credible CCIW fan/poster questions how good the NESCAC is - I certainly don't.  I think come tournament time it just all comes down to frustration around the bracketing thing. 

Just to illustrate, here is a look at 2nd round games from 2002-03 through 2012-13.  The ranking is that from the D3hoops.com poll at the time of the game (the week 13 ranking)...

CCIW 2nd Rounds
2012-13: Illinois Wesleyan @ #17 Wash U
2012-13: North Central vs #5 UW-Whitewater
2012-13: Wheaton @ #1 St. Thomas
2011-12: Illinois Wesleyan @ #1 Hope
2011-12: North Central @ #19 Wash U
2011-12: Wheaton vs Edgewood
2010-11: Illinois Wesleyan @ #8 St. Thomas (eventual national champ)
2010-11: Augustana vs Hope
2009-10: Illinois Wesleyan @ #1 Wash U
2009-10: Carthage vs #24 Anderson
2009-10: Wheaton @ #19 Texas-Dallas
2008-09:  Wheaton vs #5 UW-Platteville
2007-08:  Augustana vs #11 Wash U (eventual national champ)
2006-07:  n/a
2005-06:  Illinois Wesleyan vs #15 UW-Whitewater
2005-06:  Augustana vs #19 UW-Stout
2004-05:  Illinois Wesleyan vs #12 Hanover
2003-04:  Illinois Wesleyan vs #2 Hanover
2002-03:  Illinois Wesleyan vs #2 Wash U
         
NESCAC 2nd Rounds
2012-13: Williams vs #9 Catholic
2012-13: Amherst vs Plattsburgh St
2012:13: Middlebury vs #23 Cortland St
2011-12: Middlebury vs #16 Albertus Magnus
2011-12: Amherst vs NYU
2010-11: Williams vs Becker
2010-11: Amherst vs #14 WPI
2010-11: Middlebury vs #22 Western Conn
2009-10: Middlebury vs Rhode Island College
2009-10:  Williams vs Maine-Farmington
2008-09:  Middlebury vs Bridgewater State
2007-08:  Amherst vs John Jay
2006-07:  Amherst vs Widener
2005-06:  Amherst vs Hamilton
2005-06:  Tufts vs Cortland State
2004-05:  Amherst vs Springfield
2003-04:  Williams vs Salem State
2003-04:  Amherst vs Plymouth State
2003-04:  Trinity vs Brockport State
2002-03:  Williams vs Salem State
2002-03:  Amherst vs Southern Vermont


I think all of you would acknowledge that the roads to the Sweet 16 for CCIW and NESCAC teams are different.  If we looked at rounds 3-4, the games to get to Salem, the picture would look relatively similar.

So it's that simple -- it's just frustration.  I think CCIW fans read things like...

3 NESCACS in the Elite 8... shows how this league is the Toughest in the Country.

...and say, "Hey, things aren't quite level in terms of getting to the Elite 8."


The top 2 NESCAC teams are always national championship contenders, and the third best team is usually in the Top 15 mix.  Good CCIW fans know that.

[lefrakenstein]

3 NESCACS in the Elite 8... shows how this league is the Toughest in the Country.

...and say, "Hey, things aren't quite level in terms of getting to the Elite 8."


The top 2 NESCAC teams are always national championship contenders, and the third best team is usually in the Top 15 mix.  Good CCIW fans know that.

dcahill44's first and only NESCAC board post certainly has caused a lot of consternation. Judging by his post history, I guess he's a fan of a team in the East region.

[Panthernation]

A couple thoughts from the weekend:

1) The difference in Vince Kmiec's performance shows why it's so difficult to win a national championship.

Getting largely the same number and quality of looks against Middlebury and Amherst, Kmiec went 10-15 for 31 points in the Middlebury game and 1-11 against Amherst for 2 points.

On the season Kmiec was a 43/31/86 shooter. In those two games combined he finished 11-26 from the field and 4-13 from three. That's 42% FG and 31% 3PT or roughly his season average, but it so happened that he couldn't miss one night and couldn't make a shot the next night.

There's an element of luck in any national championship run and Amherst and Middlebury were on different ends of it over the weekend. (Though obviously many other factors impacted why Middlebury lost and Amherst advanced).

2) North Central's defense was something to behold.

Any team that can hold this Amherst team scoreless for a 9-minute period is doing something special. And while we've seen other dominant defensive teams (the '10-'11 Middlebury team, in particular) North Central was dominating that game defensively without a shot-blocker or even a true shot-affecter (Gamble, at 6'6'' is their biggest guy on the floor and he is not a vertical defender). Kmiec was tremendous defensively, consistently matching up in both games with whoever was handling the ball for Middlebury or Amherst. His play defensively was particularly important for North Central given their inconsistent play at point guard. Kmiec's defensive versatility allowed North Central to rotate their other backcourt players around Kmiec, an underrated part of the Cardinals' defense.

3) Williamson and, to a lesser degree, Kalema are the difference for Amherst.

Most national championship contenders have players at or near the caliber of Workman, Toomey and Kaasila. Very few teams can compliment those players with guys like Williamson and Kalema, who were phenomenal over the weekend. After Workman, Williamson is the most valuable player on this Amherst team. He is a force on both ends of the floor and does so much for the Lord Jeffs while taking away very little. His mid-range game, strength and athleticism makes him a matchup nightmare for almost every team he plays and he has developed into a go-to option for Amherst when other parts of their offense (see: Toomey) aren't working. In many respects Workman is the same way: his ability to handle the ball and take defenders off the dribble makes him one of the toughest players to guard. Williamson is the same way.

Kalema, meanwhile, is really, really impressive. This will likely be an unpopular opinion among Amherst fans, but I think the Lord Jeffs are far more dangerous with Kalema or Workman handling the ball than when it's Toomey. The latter has a propensity to overdribble, force shots and take his team out of rhythm. In contrast, Kalema has a far better understanding of how to play off of his teammates and effectively distribute the basketball. With as many weapons as this Amherst team has, I think Kalema is a better fit in many ways for the offense than Toomey is. Kalema is a better finisher and shooter as well.

Amherst is so talented that it likely won't matter, but I think their best lineup offensively (and defensively) has Toomey off the ball.

4) As lefrankenstein correctly pointed out, Nolan Thompson finished his career with a vintage Nolan Thompson performance.

Thompson held Derek Raridon to 9 points on 4-10 shooting. Raridon's one three of the night came at the end of the shot clock with Thompson all over him. It was one of those how-did-that-go-in shots that very few players can make.

Offensively, Middlebury missed a ton of good looks and nearly made a number of other shots. Kizel, in particular, was just a fraction off, with many of his shots rolling around the rim and falling off. A frustrating loss for the Panthers who played well enough to be in the game, but suffered from missed opportunities and a career night from Vince Kmiec.

[lefrakenstein]

Panthernation, definitely agree regarding Williamson. He has been the MAN in the both the NESCAC and NCAA playoffs. He had a double-double in both games over the weekend, an incredible feat. He's probably been the team's MVP throughout the post-season. Here's hoping for one more stellar performance.

Agree to a lesser extent on Kalema. Obviously his huge improvement has been a tremendous difference maker for Amherst this year. I will say that he is far more turnover prone than Toomey, and I think Amherst would be in trouble if he were the primary ball-handling option. Fantastic player though, and one of the most improved from one year to the next that I've ever seen in the NESCAC. Looking forward to see if he can step into a larger offensive role next season.

Also, I have to mention the play of Connor Green and Ben Pollack over the weekend. The freshmen came up huge! The two three-point plays by Green in the first half yesterday were absolutely must-haves. And Hixon seemed to choose Pollack down the stretch in a national semifinal game, which may have had something to do with how Big Pete was feeling, but is still a great accomplishment for a young player. And obviously his 14 points against Cabrini were crucial as well.

Edit: Also, I'm not sure anyone on this board has mentioned that Toomey was named an NABC national first-team all-american. He's the only NESCAC player to make any of the three teams (which is a little absurd, IMO):
http://nabc.org/awards/all_america/division_III/2013_NABC_Coaches-_Division_III_All-America.pdf

[Pat Coleman]

Only three Northeast players can make the NABC All-American team. That's the absurd part.

[lefrakenstein]

Only three Northeast players can make the NABC All-American team. That's the absurd part.

The rule is 3 from each of the 8 regions?

[Panthernation]

Agree to a lesser extent on Kalema. Obviously his huge improvement has been a tremendous difference maker for Amherst this year. I will say that he is far more turnover prone than Toomey, and I think Amherst would be in trouble if he were the primary ball-handling option. Fantastic player though, and one of the most improved from one year to the next that I've ever seen in the NESCAC. Looking forward to see if he can step into a larger offensive role next season.

Kalema does turn the ball over at a higher rate 3.72 per 40 minutes vs. 2.45 for Toomey, but there are shots that Toomey takes that coaches would consider turnovers as well, which don't show up in the stats outside of his 44% shooting.

In this case "conventional" stats won't back up my feeling that the Amherst offense is more explosive with Kalema on the floor, but I would love to see what the five-man lineup +/- splits are with Kalema on the floor in place of Toomey.

[madzillagd]

I think the easiest solution to solve the problem of the Midwest teams having to play so many ranked teams in the tournament is to stop ranking so many Midwest teams in the Top 25 that get knocked out in the first few rounds.   

[jayhawk]

agree that Kalema offers much. Nice to see his growth as a player exemplifies the growth that can occur in D3.  He is extremely crafty, almost slithering to the basket, while under control for baskets. His penetration, passing and shot has been excellent.  I would expect to see Kalema and Toomey together more next year.

Allen Williamson has always been the X factor- extremely strong, able to drive the  hoop, can rebound, and jump over other players. He has been playing to his strengths and Hixon has helped to place him in situations that maximizes his strength

[Pat Coleman]

Only three Northeast players can make the NABC All-American team. That's the absurd part.

The rule is 3 from each of the 8 regions?

Yes, even though the East and Atlantic have fewer than 40 teams and the Northeast has more than 70.

[lefrakenstein]

Agree to a lesser extent on Kalema. Obviously his huge improvement has been a tremendous difference maker for Amherst this year. I will say that he is far more turnover prone than Toomey, and I think Amherst would be in trouble if he were the primary ball-handling option. Fantastic player though, and one of the most improved from one year to the next that I've ever seen in the NESCAC. Looking forward to see if he can step into a larger offensive role next season.

Kalema does turn the ball over at a higher rate 3.72 per 40 minutes vs. 2.45 for Toomey, but there are shots that Toomey takes that coaches would consider turnovers as well, which don't show up in the stats outside of his 44% shooting.

In this case "conventional" stats won't back up my feeling that the Amherst offense is more explosive with Kalema on the floor, but I would love to see what the five-man lineup +/- splits are with Kalema on the floor in place of Toomey.

I don't want to get into too much of an argument about this b/c 1) I think Kalema is a fantastic player and 2) I get the impression the rest of the board hates our stat arguments, but it's not really fair to say that Kalema is a better shooter than Toomey. Toomey's true shooting percentage in NESCAC play was 67.5%, while Kalema's was 58.5%. In general, a lot of your arguments against Toomey seem to suggest that he's not a good shooter, but while he takes some questionable shots sometimes, a lot of those go in, and on the whole he's a fantastic shooter, ranking 5th in the conference in TS%.

Toomey's regular shooting stats don't really do him justice b/c he's so good at drawing contact and getting to the line -- which is reflected in the TS% stat. Also, I don't have any stats to back this up, but just from watching a lot of Amherst bball, I would guess that an unusually large number of Toomey shots result in offensive rebounds. The Amherst bigs are used to him pulling up early in possessions and often get excellent position when he does so.

He's no Kizel in crunch time though, I'll give you that. I was blown away by that post. Insane numbers.

[Panthernation]

Agree to a lesser extent on Kalema. Obviously his huge improvement has been a tremendous difference maker for Amherst this year. I will say that he is far more turnover prone than Toomey, and I think Amherst would be in trouble if he were the primary ball-handling option. Fantastic player though, and one of the most improved from one year to the next that I've ever seen in the NESCAC. Looking forward to see if he can step into a larger offensive role next season.

Kalema does turn the ball over at a higher rate 3.72 per 40 minutes vs. 2.45 for Toomey, but there are shots that Toomey takes that coaches would consider turnovers as well, which don't show up in the stats outside of his 44% shooting.

In this case "conventional" stats won't back up my feeling that the Amherst offense is more explosive with Kalema on the floor, but I would love to see what the five-man lineup +/- splits are with Kalema on the floor in place of Toomey.

I don't want to get into too much of an argument about this b/c 1) I think Kalema is a fantastic player and 2) I get the impression the rest of the board hates our stat arguments, but it's not really fair to say that Kalema is a better shooter than Toomey. Toomey's true shooting percentage in NESCAC play was 67.5%, while Kalema's was 58.5%. In general, a lot of your arguments against Toomey seem to suggest that he's not a good shooter, but while he takes some questionable shots sometimes, a lot of those go in, and on the whole he's a fantastic shooter, ranking 5th in the conference in TS%.

Toomey's regular shooting stats don't really do him justice b/c he's so good at drawing contact and getting to the line -- which is reflected in the TS% stat. Also, I don't have any stats to back this up, but just from watching a lot of Amherst bball, I would guess that an unusually large number of Toomey shots result in offensive rebounds. The Amherst bigs are used to him pulling up early in possessions and often get excellent position when he does so.

He's no Kizel in crunch time though, I'll give you that. I was blown away by that post. Insane numbers.

Lefrakenstein,

We probably don't give Toomey enough credit for his ability to get to the line and your points regarding offensive rebounds is fair. Shooting aside, however, I still do wonder if the Amherst offense is more efficient and more effective with Kalema on the floor because it allows more opportunities for Workman and Williamson in particular. The Lord Jeff's certainly seem to have better ball movement when Toomey plays off the ball.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Lefrakenstein,

We probably don't give Toomey enough credit for his ability to get to the line and your points regarding offensive rebounds is fair. Shooting aside, however, I still do wonder if the Amherst offense is more efficient and more effective with Kalema on the floor because it allows more opportunities for Workman and Williamson in particular. The Lord Jeff's certainly seem to have better ball movement when Toomey plays off the ball.

That is exactly what I thought last night while watching the game. Toomey was headed towards one of those stretches where he wanted to take over, but a couple of factors kept him from getting in too deep: Dave Hixon told me afterward they talked about that fact at that time and Toomey seemed to understand to get out of that mentality; and the defense on Toomey by NCC was at times so good the Lord Jeffs had to get the ball in someone's hands and that left Toomey out as the point and allowed a different look which usually seemed to run things more effectively. Hats off to Toomey, though, for recognizing the moments along with his coach and allowing those moments to happen. In last year's F&M game and in other games I have seen him play since he sometimes thinks he has to take over and do it himself when in reality the Lord Jeffs have a number of weapons like Williamson, Workman, Kalema and even Kaasila who can get the job done when given the chance.

By the way, the defense on Rairdon was terrific. Two NESCAC defenders took him out of the games, essentially, in both nights. Middlebury didn't have the ability to shut everyone else down and Amherst and NCC played such good defense that taking Rairdon out of the game along with the outside shooting threat for the Cardinals made it hard to only go through Gamble who played very well and was taking Kaasila to town... until he picked up his fourth foul late and the complexion of that match-up flipped completely.

[amh63]

Back from Salem.....my 5th trip to Salem to watch Amherst play.  Left, this morning in a mix of rain and ice for the 4 hour ride back to DC.  Thought about a post on the way back.  Changed my thoughts after all the posts of today and late last night.  My post is divided into sections of atmospheric comments; some observations about the NCC game...not much stat comment that are posted on the websites; a few comments about refs after reading all the post that had comments about the refs.
Here goes....second try....lost my earlier post due to technical difficulties.
While awaiting the All-Star game, got to talk a bit with RIC's T. Carter's father in the hotel sitting area.  We talked about the RIC vs. Amherst's games the past two years and his guidance of his son.  It seems that T. Carter, who was the defensive Player of the Year for the LEC conf, is the defensive stopper for RIC.  He came late to the game of BB; was trained as a boxer as a youth so his offensive skills is not fully developed but his defensive skills are well honed.  T. Carter was guarding Aaron Toomey when Aaron torched RIC this year.  Carter's father likes and admires Aaron's game.  Carter's father is from NYC and recognize "players".  Sat with the family at the All Star game and enjoyed hearing a caring father calling out advice to his son when he knows his son cannot hear him.  His mother also understands BB.
Sat with old alums at the St. Thomas vs the Texans game.  Sort of like watching an Amherst vs. Williams game based on the uniforms on the floor.
As we sat down, a man..dressed in purple....behind us fore warned us that he is very loud in shouting encouragement to his "Tommies"...but not at the refs.  That did not last long.  He was loud and we moved over a bit.  At half time, went up to chat with some Amherst parents/fans that had arrived.  As I sat down, a woman behind warned me that she was a loud fan of St. Thomas.  I replied..." you can not be louder than the man below."  She replied..." he is my husband...and yes I can."
Was among the Amherst fans for the NCC game.  Willy Workman's parents to my left; "Big Pete's" parents behind, and Toomeys family/friends to my right.  Oh yes, Killian's father in front among other parents.  Old friends/alums to my right.  As the game started, there was a feeling that the play would get rough...but a fear that it was going to be a repeat  of the Calbrini game when Aaron and Big Pete left in the first half.  Parent's started to grumble about the play among other things.  Some relief when the first half ended with a last second shot by Willy at the buzzer.  Killian's father wondered if Amherst had shot over 50% from the foul line.
In the second half, as Amherst remained scoreless for almost 9 minutes, tension started to rise about many things.  Relief came when Ben Pollack hit a foul shot.  One could almost hear the "relief".  I pointed out that the Amherst team on the floor was "young"...two freshman, two juniors and Workman the only senior, providing leadership and defensive direction.  By the time, Amherst got the lead back..an Aaron 3, a block/steal and foul shots made, there were smiles in the stands.  After a timeout, when Coach Hixon put his seniors all back into the game with a small lead, there was a feeling in the stands that it was time to "get on with it"...to go out and win the game.  It was most fitting that Allen Williamson blocked a shot leading to a two handed dunk.  The Amherst crowd rose up and cheered with their arms up.  Time remained, but to us in the stands, the game was mentally over....Amherst would win the game.
Willy Workman's father rose up and made a simple remark...that Willy only scored 3 points but it was one of the best games he has seen his son play.  Killian's father again asked if Amherst had shot over 50% from the foul line.  We all seemed to agree it was an UGLY game. but a WIN.
NCC plays a game that holds opponents around 55 points and mid thirties in shooting percentage.  They did that with Amherst.  HOWEVER, Amherst played great defense too!  NCC shot below 30% from the field and only scored 44 points and worst from the foul line.
Willy's father notice his leadership, his rebounds, his blocks and his steals.  Most of all, his shut down of NCC's best offensive player that hit for 31 against the Panthers.  I laughed a little while reading Panther nation's post that it was a bad day against Amherst for the player that scored 31 against Midd....being a good day.  Ah youth!  Willy Workman was Defensive Player of the Year last year...and is bigger than Norm T. How one forgets.  Is Kalema a talent? Of Course!  Is he a better pg than Aaron Toomey?  Better watch a few more BB games Panthernation....before you repeat that comment, my young bloggers.  When Kalema was taking the role of ball handler, there were many old former BB players in the stands nervous about it.  Comments such as slow down... quit dribbling so much.., etc.  Bright future ahead...yes.  Paired with Toomey...yes.

I agree with LeFrak's comment about the refs calling the technical foul at the end of the game for having too many players on the floor.  Tells you a great deal about the refs on the floor.   
During the ST. Mary's game, I chatted with an RMC couple that was watching the game.  They pointed out that it was an ODAC crew of refs.  They saw them at the ODAC tournament.  Even recognize particular refs...and their tendencies....like....that refs like to call fouls on the bigger players, post players.   Enough said about refs here.  Correction to St. Mary from Cabrini update

LeFrak....it is most appropriate that you are going "HOME" to watch Amherst play live.  After this weekend, Amherst will be the home team in the white uniform.

[Titan Q]

Most of all, is shut down of NCC's best offensive player that hit for 31 against the Panthers. 

Vince Kmiec is actually not NCC's best offensive player - he came into last night averaging 11 ppg and is a real streaky scorer.

NCC's two best offensive players are Derek Raridon and Landon Gamble.  Amherst took Raridon completely out of the game.