MBB: NESCAC

[Panthernation]

Epistemology is a really interesting thing.

By definition, arguments using formal logic (or, not, etc) are sound only when everyone knows their propositions (their underlying Ps and Qs) are true.  In sports, there is usually disagreement on the truth of the arguments' propositions (e.g. that PER is an accurate measure of player value).  Therefore, in sports, formal logic is unable to produce a sound conclusion (one that every reasonable person would agree is correct).

That is why fuzzy (or probabilistic) logic is a better fit for sports (and the real world).  We make observations and use Bayesian reasoning to identify propositions that are probably true.  Then, using fuzzy logic, we can draw conclusions that may or may not be true.  Fuzzy logic is humble; it admits that it can't reach conclusions that everyone will agree with.  That is why it (and not formal logic) is suited to sports.

It is not a coincidence that those exposed to the real world embrace fuzzy logic whereas those who are not don't.

The law of non-contradiction is formal logic. Without it, our discourse can't get anywhere because the opposite of any truth claim can be simultaneously true. Why confine its application to rhetoric and math?

[Panthernation]

It is not a coincidence that those exposed to the real world embrace fuzzy logic whereas those who are not don't.

Why do so many of you act like you know what the real world is and we don't? You know nothing about our lives. We never talk about your lives; we talk about your arguments.

[amh07]

Epistemology is a really interesting thing.

By definition, arguments using formal logic (or, not, etc) are sound only when everyone knows their propositions (their underlying Ps and Qs) are true.  In sports, there is usually disagreement on the truth of the arguments' propositions (e.g. that PER is an accurate measure of player value).  Therefore, in sports, formal logic is unable to produce a sound conclusion (one that every reasonable person would agree is correct).

That is why fuzzy (or probabilistic) logic is a better fit for sports (and the real world).  We make observations and use Bayesian reasoning to identify propositions that are probably true.  Then, using fuzzy logic, we can draw conclusions that may or may not be true.  Fuzzy logic is humble; it admits that it can't reach conclusions that everyone will agree with.  That is why it (and not formal logic) is suited to sports.

It is not a coincidence that those exposed to the real world embrace fuzzy logic whereas those who are not don't.

The law of non-contradiction is formal logic. Without it, our discourse can't get anywhere because the opposite of any truth claim can be simultaneously true. Why confine its application to rhetoric and math?

Lefrak made a simple proposition that when many well-informed people believe something is true, that fact increases a rational person's expectation of the truth of the thing.  This is a valid argument using Bayesian reasoning and fuzzy logic.

I bet that if you named any supposed self-contradiction that someone made on this board, then I could argue using formal logic that it is not a self-contradiction.

In the fuzzy real world, Barack Obama is a great president and a terrible president.  Aaron Toomey is the best player and the second best player.

[Bucket]

So there was this basketball player back in the day who went by the moniker The Goat....

[amh07]

It is not a coincidence that those exposed to the real world embrace fuzzy logic whereas those who are not don't.

Why do so many of you act like you know what the real world is and we don't? You know nothing about our lives. We never talk about your lives; we talk about your arguments.

Sorry, that was a cheap shot because I don't actually know to what extent you are in the real world.

But it was an attractive shot because I remember how I thought in college.  I realize I felt that every question could be answered convincingly with the application of reason.  I also remember how older people would tell me, "Don't think you know so much."  And I didn't really understand that until I entered the real world, made investments based on ideas I arrived at using valid reasoning, and failed.

[frank uible]

The Mountain Goat continues to exist in Williamstown - probably has an End of Season Sale at this time.

[amh63]

Frank....Thanks....good to know.

LeFrak and others going to Atlanta.....check the Amherst site for info on seating areas and a reception for the fans after the game....refreshments, etc....free but requires RSVP.   At the GT hotel and conference center.  Alum picking up the tab.

[P'bearfan]

Hope to see some of you at the game Sunday.  My son and I will be there....probably the only folks in Bowdoin gear.

[lefrakenstein]

I'll look for you SE_D3_fan. You should come sit near the Amherst bench with your fellow NESCACers.

Thanks amh63, I have RSVP'd for the reception and will try to arrive early to find a spot in the designated Amherst area. I wonder: are you the alum picking up the tab? If so, much appreciated.

Enjoyed the Amherst preview on the front page. Thought it was funny though that Workman's report starts off with "lefty" in bold. He has got to be one of the most ambidextrous players I've ever seen - at any level. Scores with either hand without hesitation.

Rumor has it that there is a CBSsports ad playing in the New England area briefly showing Amherst highlights. I would love to see that if someone can find it. My brief scouring of youtube and cbs.com did not turn up anything.

[AncientSonOfHixon]

Enjoyed the Amherst preview on the front page. Thought it was funny though that Workman's report starts off with "lefty" in bold. He has got to be one of the most ambidextrous players I've ever seen - at any level. Scores with either hand without hesitation.

That's for sure. I think I'd go even further and say that Workman actually seems to favor his off-hand--even on 8-foot runners and flips, longer shots than almost any player goes off-handed with. Not sure I've ever seen anything like it.

[lefrakenstein]

Enjoyed the Amherst preview on the front page. Thought it was funny though that Workman's report starts off with "lefty" in bold. He has got to be one of the most ambidextrous players I've ever seen - at any level. Scores with either hand without hesitation.

That's for sure. I think I'd go even further and say that Workman actually seems to favor his off-hand--even on 8-foot runners and flips, longer shots than almost any player goes off-handed with. Not sure I've ever seen anything like it.

The Goat could shoot half-court shots with his off hand, sprint behind the ball, catch it mid-jump after it went through the hoop, then dunk twice more and make change for a dollar at the top of the backboard, all before landing.

His PER was 422.63 and formal logic and Bayesian reasoning dictate that he must have had super-human powers, but Thompson is a better one-on-one defender, and would thus be more valuable in a hypothetical tournament featuring teams of 5 Thompsons, 5 goats, 5 Workmans, 5 Toomeys and 5 Kizels. Walzy is working up spreads as we speak.

[nescac1]

I thought this article might interest folks as one of the players quoted (defending the coach, in that case) is Ithaca forward Frank Mitchell, who played in the NCAA tourney vs. Middlebury.   Makes "box out" (or for that matter, any antics by NESCAC coaches) seem pretty tame ...

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/9125796/practice-video-shows-rutgers-basketball-coach-mike-rice-berated-pushed-used-slurs-players

Eric Murdock, by the way, is an alumnus of my high school and an absolute class act.   

[AncientSonOfHixon]

Enjoyed the Amherst preview on the front page. Thought it was funny though that Workman's report starts off with "lefty" in bold. He has got to be one of the most ambidextrous players I've ever seen - at any level. Scores with either hand without hesitation.

That's for sure. I think I'd go even further and say that Workman actually seems to favor his off-hand--even on 8-foot runners and flips, longer shots than almost any player goes off-handed with. Not sure I've ever seen anything like it.

The Goat could shoot half-court shots with his off hand, sprint behind the ball, catch it mid-jump after it went through the hoop, then dunk twice more and make change for a dollar at the top of the backboard, all before landing.

His PER was 422.63 and formal logic and Bayesian reasoning dictate that he must have had super-human powers, but Thompson is a better one-on-one defender, and would thus be more valuable in a hypothetical tournament featuring teams of 5 Thompsons, 5 goats, 5 Workmans, 5 Toomeys and 5 Kizels. Walzy is working up spreads as we speak.

That's a serious PER. Goat's got skills. Still, my jing is on Thompson.

[amh63]

LeFrak....Thanks for the thought....the host in Atlanta is Peter Cranfield '76  P'11, P'16.  Maybe next time in Salem.   Enjoy !   

[Jumbo Fan]

Hello all, I'm new to posting, but have been reading the NESCAC board for a couple of years now. Looking forward to the weekend, but more so to next season.