MBB: NESCAC

[amh63]

Madz's....got you off the golf course!...interested in your views on whether the college game is changing to reflect the players coming out of H.S. these days.  Also whether fewer TO's are more important than more rebounds to win games in colleges these days, especially in the "CAC".
Welcome back Panthernation!   Summer courses?  Maybe you all can check out last year's conference battles and see if turnovers versus rebounds stats reveal/ reflect the standings.   Really it goes back to the backcourt versus front court question.  With today's big guards and front court players shooting from the outside, it gets cloudy.
Amherst had two " front court" players the last.few years that were impact players after the coach.had them alter their game/play in their senior years, IMO.....Holmes and Williamson.  Holmes liked to shoot outside and helped his team more when he decided to take his talents inside.  Williamson became a star when he developed his medium shot...a 6'4" guard that played like a power forward.

[madzillagd]

Well the game is always going to be a reflection of the people that play it.  The players have changed so the game has changed.  What I think would be a good discussion is whether championship teams have changed, or better said, have championship teams changed as much as the rest of the game.  I would argue that the game has changed tremendously because you have less fundamentals, more athleticism, so things are driven more by guard play and less by big men for teams in general.  However, I think that the elite teams are still the ones that have a good combination of guards/bigs and still have the ability to play more of a traditional game, all the while incorporating some of the newer aspects of the game into their plan (shooting more 3s etc.).  You look at the NESCAC teams and the Midwest teams that have done well the past decade they had that combination.   

[quicksilver]

They were an NCAA conference. They played a conference schedule and handed out automatic bids in 1999-2000. Before that, they listed their conference standings alphabetically, in the odd little quirky way that is the NESCAC. In 2001 they did list conference standings the same way everyone else did but prior to that, they were definitely "an NCAA conference" even if they did things a little differently.

Here's how the NCAA listed the 1999-2000 standings  (p. 22-23):
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2001/2000Standings.pdf

2000-01 standings (p. 22):
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2002/2001Standings.pdf

The NCAA helpfully says for the 2000 season about the NESCAC: "Did not compete for a regular-season conference title"

What is provided for the 1999-2000 season is simply the win-loss records of each NESCAC team. Those records include the many games that each time played against non-NESCAC teams. And of course not all NESCAC teams played each other in basketball prior to 2001  . . . Up until the NESCAC started playing as a playing conference (1999-2000 for some teams; 2000-2001 for b-ball), NESCAC existed primarily to regulate the behavior of its members on things like post-season play. This is not hard to find -- all you have to do is go to the website of a NESCAC school that provides basketball history prior to 2001 and you will see that there was no NESCAC playing conference.

[Old Guy]

.so I wanted to point out and congrate the 900 conference athletes that made the Spring All academic honors...including over 100 students that had also made all NESCAC teams.  need a grade point average of 3.35. amh63


"Smart kids," true enough, congratulations indeed, but the numbers are significantly attributable to grade inflation. Old Guy

Why even say congradulations if you're going to add the remark at the end? It doesn't sound particularly genuine to me. Booyakasha

Didn't mean to open a can of worms (stir up a hornets' nest?) with my "grade inflation" comment. Grade inflation at our schools is a fact. A high percentage of our graduating seniors graduate with honors. That wasn't always the case. Phi Beta Kappa was once a handful of students; now there are dozens. It's not a moral issue to me. An "A" for a long time represented an ideal; now it represents good conscientious work by a talented student. Fine with me. In fact, I have no doubt contributed myself to grade inflation at Middlebury. If amh63 were to translate his average to these days at Amherst he would raise it by one letter grade (we should perhaps acknowledge at the same time that students at our schools are in the main stronger and better prepared than when we were there). The average grade at our schools, I would suggest without doing the numbers, is a high "B." So it would seem that an all-academic standard of 3.35 does not recognize excellence exclusively, but average work or better (900 students). Again, that's okay with me. The athletes I teach have never been more conscientious and talented. The average at NESCAC schools is a high average, not average at all outside the immediate context.

[nescac1]

Eph connection for tonight's game:

http://athletics.williams.edu/sports/mbkb/2012-13/releases/20130618x80y9z

Also, Coach Popovich is closely connected to Williams (he was hired at Pomona by a long-time Williams hoops coach who became the Pomona AD).  He gave a speech to a Williams soccer team a few years back.  He spends a lot of time in the Berkshires ...

Yet (more) reasons to pull for the Spurs! 

[grabtherim]

Eph connection for tonight's game:
Yet (more) reasons to pull for the Spurs!

Or not to. 

[creakyknees]

Also, Coach Popovich is closely connected to Williams (he was hired at Pomona by a long-time Williams hoops coach who became the Pomona AD).  He gave a speech to a Williams soccer team a few years back.  He spends a lot of time in the Berkshires ...


The reference to former Williams coach and Pomona AD, Dr. Curt Tong, brought a quick smile.  Curt Tong was a very good coach and a true gentleman.  While still at Williams, he wrote a very nice note (which I still have) congratulating me on a successful senior season of high school basketball and suggesting that I consider Williams as a possible college basetball destination.  The only problem was that I was in the process of completing my freshman year at Amherst and we had beaten the Tong-coached Williams team twice that season....     

[amh63]

Creaky knees..welcome aboard .  Guess after overlooking you in Basketball....and suggesting baseball instead, he must have decided to leave Williams and head West. 
Stayed up to late to watch Miami beat the Spurs!....great game and win for the Heat.
Like both teams but prefer Miami.

[pick and roll]

ugh - the Heat are the most unlikable team I have ever seen - especially Wade - would like to see Duncan win one more.

[Panthernation]

http://d3hoops.com/notables/2013/06/hoopsville-classic-features-three-elite-eight-teams

Middlebury's schedule at the Hoopsville Classic:
Friday, Nov 22 vs. Stevenson (6pm)
Sunday, Nov 24 vs. St. Mary's (MD) (1pm)

St. Mary's made it to the elite eight last year (and lost to Middlebury in the 2011 elite eight) and could be a top-five team nationally at the beginning of next season. They bring back their top two scorers and four of their five starters.

[toad22]

Nice start!

[amh63]

Nov 22 seems so far in the future on this the beginning of Summer!
Still it maybe a good game on the the 23 rd. 
Amherst played Stevenson about 4 seasons ago in their old gym.  New bigger gym is in another area by the football complex.  Might go to the game...mark it on the calendar.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

The "new" gym is located on what is basically the main campus now where the entire athletic department is located (the original campus is used for classes and some administrative offices are still located there - nothing else).

And it is WELL worth coming down for the weekend to attend the games. On Saturday you can take in downtown Baltimore (Inner Harbor and other great places) or even take a quick trip down I-95 to see Washington, DC.

Let me know if there is anything you need to know about or even curious about what to do when in town... I will be happy to help .

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Oh... forgot the link for information on the Hoopsville Classic: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2013/06/hoopsville-classic-features-three-elite-eight-teams

[Panthernation]

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20130622/SPORTS05/306230019/1002/RSS03?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm

Matt St. Amour named VT male HS athlete of the year