MBB: NESCAC

[amh63]

TheHerst2&4....do you know if there is going to be a gathering of the team for a ring presentation?

[Vandy74]

Most athletic player in NESCAC? Kalema has the early lead. Sinnickson at Midd is a candidate (with Jensen a close second, in my opinion).

I'm late enough chiming in on this that I'd ordinarily let it go but my enthusiasm to see the athleticism of Sinnickson and Jensen displayed at the same time on the Pepin hardwood this coming season is something I've mentioned to anyone who cared to listen several times already.  Glad someone agrees with me.  No surprise it's you Old Guy.  They are going to be fun to watch.

[Vandy74]

Well here are a couple Norwegian moose





 

The second beast is my 5 yr old son who has been nicknamed Moose by his uncle.  His name is Magnus and in Norway you pronounce that "Mog-noose" which of course rhymes with Moose so it's stuck with him.  Far less disturbing for folks than his previous nickname Booby that his older sister gave him.  Turns out screaming Booby to get a kid's attention from across a park or store will grab people's attention.

Having the nickname "Booby" totally destroys the kid's street cred and if word leaks out that older sister had the final say in the matter he will probably have to change schools.  There are also child abuse laws to be considered.  Uncles know best.  Stick with "Moose".

[middhoops]

The wise and venerable Vandy74 isn't the Youtube geek that I am when it comes to checking out the incoming first year players, but I'm guessing many of you are.  Excepting the teams you root for, who do you think will be the top players, eventually, of the class of '17?
It's no secret that I have severe Sabety and Robinson envy.

[nescac1]

Seems like there are a lot of potential impact guys in the Class of 2017.  All three Williams guys could play as frosh, although Coach Maker is usually reluctant to play first-years big minutes which might limit them some, especially at first.  Certainly, Robinson is the most highly-regarded Eph recruit in awhile and will at the very least be able to play early as a stretch 3/4 guy who can shoot open threes (there should be plenty with all the attention Mayer and Epley will receive) effectively.  Dan Aronowitz is another athletic, tall, skilled wing in the Daniel Wohl mold (although of course whether he eventually reaches that level of play remains to be seen), and Mike Greenman could be a similar player to Luke Matarazzo at Bates (only with a better outside shot), but it remains to be seen whether either will make the rotation this year as there is a lot of strong competition for spots on the perimeter.  Still, by the time they are sophomores all three should be important pieces for Williams. 

Almost for certain, a few of the Amherst guys will play early, but with seven incoming recruits all of whom seem talented, hard to know which.  Nabatoff seems like he has a ton of upside but may need a year or two to develop his interior skills. I predict he will be a rotation guy at the very least eventually though, very good skills for his size.  David George seems like a guy who almost HAS to see time early.  Diego Magana on the wing and Reid Berman at the point also look like guys who could play as frosh.  Certainly, some of the Amherst frosh who would play elsewhere will be squeezed out for a year or two in a numbers game on a very large Amherst roster. 

I think both Tufts big guys, Madsen and Sabety, will play fairly early.  Tufts did bring in several well-regarded big guys (besides Palleschi) who did not play last year but who will likely be fighting Madsen and Sabety for those roles, I'm not sure how their talent level compares though. 

Harry Rafferty will be Wesleyan's starting point guard in the near future if not right away.  I think when you combine his talent and maturity along with the enormous holes that Wesleyan has at guard, he may have the best opportunity to win ROY in the NESCAC.  I think the early favorites for guys to watch would be Rafferty, Robinson, Sabety and George, with Aronowitz, Magana, Madsen, and a few of the Midd guards also warranting attention.  Middlebury has so many different types of guards coming in, you figure at least one will play big minutes as a first-year but I'll leave it to the Midd folks to speculate who that is likely to be.  All seem to fit different needs, and even though St. Amour has the most hype, it's a pretty big leap from small-time Vermont high school hoops to the NESCAC, and you have to prove yourself on defense first to play for Midd.  Another guy who may need a year to adjust even though at the very least he'll be dangerous as a shooter off of screens and such ... 

I know less about the rookies coming in at Hamilton, the Maine schools, Trinity and Conn College, but none who have been discussed to date seem quite at the level as the Williams/Amherst/Middlebury/Wesleyan/Tufts classes.  Ed Ogundeko at Trinity is the one guy from that group who seems most likely to be an impact player in NESCAC, yet another physical, slightly undersized, athletic frontcourt guy for the Bants.  Bates has an ENORMOUS incoming class with lots of badly-needed big guys, but unclear which if any of them will be able to contribute early. 

[P'bearfan]

nescac1 - nice overview of the incoming players.  I've seen many of the videos that have been posted (though not all) and would generally agree with your assessments. 

The only caveat I would add is that it's very difficult to predict who will stand out this year because you don't know what level of competition they have faced in the past.  That can make a huge difference in the transition to the college game. It looks like a few of the guys have always been the best player on the floor - not a great development situation.  I suspect only a very few have routinely faced top D1 competition - which might lower their numbers but make their transition much easier.

Add to that the myriad variables of 18 years acclimating to college life and well....who knows..... but it should be fun because there are clearly many incoming players with great potential.

[amh63]

Nescac1....your normal thoughtful post has me thinking about a board "problem" of sorts.  You close your post about the lack of info on the FY players on Trinity, Conn., Bates, etc.  Other than Lumbercat, there has been few if any posters for the Maine schools and the CT schools really....at least regularly over the years.  Durning the preseason,  the lack of info and even opinions on over half the schools in the conference has me scratching my head.  Is there a way out of this "problem"?...other than waiting for the games to begin in November.

[Old Guy]

With frosh, I think it's often more about opportunity than preparation. I remember that Mayer, the presumptive POY, could hardly get off the bench as a frosh, with Whittington and Emerson, playing ahead of him. I'm sure that some of these talented frosh have made that calculation about playing time early when they have chosen the school they have. Ben Rudin came to Middlebury when the cupboard was entirely bare of point guard possibilities. I think he started every game in four years.

I know that Williams and Amherst almost always get the recruits they want (at least relative to other NESCAC schools), but that fact puts even more pressure on the coach to be right in evaluating a 17-year old. It's fun to watch some of these kids who were not highly-touted come on to have outstanding careers in NESCAC (Thompson, others?). Some kids peak early; others experience significant growth in college, physically and otherwise in maturity.

[Bucket]

it's a pretty big leap from small-time Vermont high school hoops to the NESCAC 

Ben Ferris seemed to handle the leap accordingly

[nescac1]

Old Guy is certainly right regarding opportunity vs. preparation.  The only Williams player to make a major impact as a first-year in Maker's tenure was Nate Robertson.  Future all-Americans like Troy Whittington, James Wang, and Mayer barely saw the court as first-years.  James Klemm and Daniel Wohl were also not maintstays in their first year playing.  Rooke-Ley and Epley were solid rotation players, but that is it.  Now, granted, all of those guys made major improvements over the course of their college careers.  But for many NESCAC teams any of them would have been go-to guys by necessity as first-years.  With Midd, Williams, Amherst and Tufts all bringing back pretty deep groups of upperclass players, there is no guarantee that any of the guys who have been most touted (Sabety, St. Amour, George, Robinson, etc.) will get an opportunity to be a key player right away.  It is no coincidence that, even though Williams, Amherst and Midd have dominated NESCAC since 2007, only one player (Toomey) from those three schools has won ROY during that stretch.  That's why I would make someone like Rafferty the favorite for biggest impact frosh .... "biggest impact" in most years does not equal "best."   

[middhoops]

Just sayin', but the key word in my original question was, "eventually".

[amh63]

Right on the mark Old Guy.  Opportunities often come about during the season for many reasons, but the younger players in waiting have to work hard during practices to gain the confidence of the coaches.  Surprising, Amherst had both Green and Pollack inserted early in the season and become key contributors in the post seasons.  Pollack's opportunities came due to injuries to two bigs.
I remember when Kalema was inserted two seasons ago in an away game.  Toomey was injured and Dave came in.  His quickness was there but his outside shot was missing and his ball handling could have been better.  I am sure part of his play was due to jitters, inexperience, etc.  Amherst lost that OOC early season game.  To many turnovers,IMO, by Kalema at that time.  I believe that coach Hixon and Kalema both had a learning experience.  Hixon realized he needed to develop backups at all positions earlier.  Kalema was inserted into games more and his time on the floor grew, even when Toomey returned.  Killian showed promise in his rookie year.  I recall, that Hixon mentioned that he needed to give Killian more time on the floor in his soph year...but Amherst was deep with talented players in the 2 and 3 positions.
I believe  talented FY players were inserted more last season even before the growth of Kalema and Williamson became evident.  Wise Hixon became wiser,IMO...so one saw Green inserted to jump start the offense at times.   To close, I think even on a deep squad,  new players will get floor time at Amherst, If.. they work hard in practice.

[nescac1]

Ahh, got it middhoops.  That question is even tougher because as others have pointed out it's just so hard to project how players (who we typically know little about to being with) will develop over four years.  Every so often a guy who seems like a sure thing comes into NESCAC, and while they don't ALWAYS pan out, they usually too.  Usually those guys are ball-handling guards (Andrew Olson, Mike Crotty and Aaron Toomey were all talked about in that way, and they certainly all lived up to the hype) because those guys are easier to project at the college level, and if someone has size AND obvious high-level skills, they are more likely to be nabbed by a D-1 school.   The big guys who turn into superstars are more likely to be guys like Whittington or Sharry who were just missed for one reason or another. 

Notwithstanding that general observation, I believe that the taller players in this year's class are generally the more intriguing prospects.  David George at Amherst does seem to have incredible upside, but in terms of most likely to eventually be the top player in the class, I'd still go with Duncan Robinson (just because I can't recall ever before seeing a guy ranked in the top 50 in New England go the NESCAC route, and shooting is a skill that will always be needed) followed by some combo of George, Sabety, Madsen, and St. Amour. 

On another note, this is not hoops-related I realize, but super cool nonetheless ... Trinity and Williams will be playing a hockey game at Fenway in January!

http://ephsports.williams.edu/sports/mice/2013-14/releases/20131011fcq5qn

[creakyknees]

From a coaching perspective, it would be hard (and foolish) not to put your best players on the floor, even if they happen to be freshmen.  However, it sometimes takes an injury or illness to an incumbent (the so-called "opportunity") in order to discover just how talented a freshman might be.  By way of example, Andrew Olsen of Amherst played very little as a freshman until an unfortunate injury to the starting point guard "threw" Andrew into the lineup.  Not surprisingly, Andrew  turned out OK - even for a freshman.   

[Old Guy]

The question is: how many Williams and Amherst recruits (kids they would really like to have) turn them down for the opportunity to have an immediate impact somewhere else, maybe at a bottom half (but still mighty desirable) NESCAC school? Not many, I'd guess. Conversely, how many kids that the Ephs and Jeffs have gone after pretty hard have ended up not making a significant contribution for them, in time, disappointments? My sense is they have the luxury of getting just about whomever they want, and have made mighty few "mistakes."