MBB: NESCAC

[Vandy74]

IWU 94
Winona State 81
On Demand replay - http://client.stretchinternet.com/client/winona.portal#

From the CCIW boards, here's some actual basketball to watch to pass the time.  #2 IWU beat a D2 team yesterday.

A pretty good d2 team at that.

Yeah, it was a dead link by the time I checked it out but I went to the Winona St. site to see how good they had been last season.  27-8.  Two starters return along with the #6 man but they got 41 points out of a pair of red shirt freshmen along with a lot more playing time from a 6'11" junior who had mostly sat the year before.  In fact only 3 players on the Winona St. roster are smaller than 6'5".   It looks like IWU has to be very good to have won like that and according to some of these other posts obviously they are indeed.

[toad22]

Just to clarify my two posts today. I was trying to talk about the Williams team, as I see it. The story of the team is primarily about our upperclassmen, Mayer, Epley, Wohl, Rooke-Ley and Weinheimer. I mentioned that I thought that the First year Robinson was so good that he almost had to play a lot. I really do think that this freshman class is really good, but we win or lose based on the veterans.

[Titan Q]

Yeah, it was a dead link by the time I checked it out

You just have to go to the "On Demand" tab.  (Winona State beat UW-Stout from the WIAC 83-56 tonight.)

IWU is tough, but like the NESCAC, the CCIW is nasty.  It will be a grind to win the league title...even with a loaded squad.  I'm excited though...the Titans are really good.

Would love to meet a NESCAC team in the NCAA tourney...let's make it in Salem!

[Vandy74]

Yeah, it was a dead link by the time I checked it out

You just have to go to the "On Demand" tab.  (Winona State beat UW-Stout from the WIAC 83-56 tonight.)

IWU is tough, but like the NESCAC, the CCIW is nasty.  It will be a grind to win the league title...even with a loaded squad.  I'm excited though...the Titans are really good.

Would love to meet a NESCAC team in the NCAA tourney...let's make it in Salem!

Thanks...Don't know why I didn't think to try that.    I watched about 5 minutes of lead in stuff....coach interview...got to get a few things done but I'll unwind later tonight with what should be a good game to watch.  And yes, the Panthers would love to meet you in Salem.

[Titan Q]

Most D3 Final Four appearances, Salem Era (since 1994-95)
1) Williams: 6 (1997, 1998, 2003, 2004, 2010, 2011)
T2) Amherst: 5 (2004, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2013)
T2) Illinois Wesleyan: 5 (1996, 1997, 2001, 2006, 2012)

[Vandy74]

Yeah, it was a dead link by the time I checked it out

You just have to go to the "On Demand" tab. 

It will be a grind to win the league title...even with a loaded squad.  I'm excited though...the Titans are really good.

You should be excited.  Interesting game.  Someone has posted that IWU had two key players sitting out with injuries.  Winona St. had one of their returning starters out for the same reason.  Both coaches played 9 players for significant minutes and the Winona coach said on camera that he still was totally undecided on who would fill two regular starting slots.  He coached like he was looking for some of those answers.

That said IWU looked like a team that could play with Winona in a meaningful game.  They were the team in control throughout the second half as it became clear to the Winona St. players what was happening.  27 points and 14 rebounds for Ziemnick.  24 points in 20 playing minutes for Mayberger.  6'10" Anderson was equal to 6'11" O'Laughlin in the time they paired of against each other.  Two other good players who had to sit?  Yeah, if I were an IWU fan I'd be very excited.

[nescac1]

TitanQ, given how loaded those three teams are, I'd say that there is at least a 50 percent chance that we see at least one more appearance from that group, collectively.  You can toss in Stevens Point (not sure how many Final Fours, but three titles) and Wash U, and those five dominant teams of the Salem era ALL look poised, once again, for big years.  [Virginia Wesleyan is the other dominant team of that era, but looks a bit down from last year]. 

[amh63]

I was there in Salem in 2006.  Remember the IWU fans off loading from buses..loyal supporters indeed!  Talked to a couple as we headed to the doors...chatted and mentioned Amherst and the Little Three with  Wesleyan.  They graciously responded that the Cardinals was the first college to carry the Name and university label.
Strange, do not remember much of the games played...age is catching up with me, I fear

[P'bearfan]

Coming into the season the starting line up for Bowdoin appeared to be pretty clear (position; name; avg min/game from last season):

1 - Hurley (35.8)
2- Mathias (27.7)
3- Madlinger (31.5)
4 - Pieri (32.2)
5- Swords (16.5)

If Swords could stay out of foul trouble and give them close to 25 min / game they would be in reasonable shape.  The only other returning players from last year who played at least 10 min / game were Hausman (17.9) and White (10.0).  Given that White didn't play football this year, he could be expected to play more and give them some added depth.  If one of the other bench players stepped up and / or one of the FY could contribute early you could see a nice 8-9 man rotation.  The only real hole is the lack of a true center to back up Swords (assuming Swords could play ~25 min / game).

Now with injuries - especially to Hurley - this is all up in the air.  There is little question that Mathias, Madlinger, Pieri and Swords will start but the question of who plays PG impacts a lot of things.   Do you move Mathias to PG and Madlinger to SG?  That's not Mathias' natural position and who then plays 3 (assuming Pieri remains at 4) - and what do you do when Swords isn't on the floor?  If you don't have a center then you really need a guy who can play inside-out, who is that?    Alternatively does Hausman step into the PG role?  If so that's a lot of responsibility on him; do you need to split time at PG? Can you keep an offensive rythm going if you do that?

As others have noted, Bowdoin had a chance to break into the top tier this year.  Hopefully injuries will heal and they'll be healthy for most of conference play.  In the mean time it will be interesting to see how they approach the challenges they have.  Can't wait for next Friday!

[madzillagd]

I look at Duncan Robinson play, and I think "Why isn't that kid playing at Bucknell?".

There's no question that Robinson possesses a very nice combination of height, quickness and skill.  He should have an impact this year and could be a real force in the years to come.  Could he play at a D1 school - yes possibly.  But before we get carried away go back and look at the recruiting videos and you'll notice a couple of things:

- the defense he played against was pretty bad - a lot of soft zone that allowed him to pick his spots to shoot and absolutely no rotation and help defense when he came down the lane.  Robinson is good and he'll get points but the other teams were making him look even better

-He is (or was) pretty slight - 180 lbs maybe.  He may have a harder time getting through the lane (with or without the ball) and getting the position he wants when he's giving up 20 - 40lbs on the guys defeding him.

Again, I'm not knocking him at all.  I'd be surprised if he wasn't a regular contributor - even on a talented team like Williams.  I just don't think he's on a completely different level that's all.

I may be wrong, but I'm expecting Robinson to be a pretty one-dimensional player this year.  Despite his size, I have a feeling where he will make his mark will be from behind the 3 point arc.  I'm not expecting to see a whole lot from him in the paint or even off the dribble.  Those things will come once he has time to improve his strength and of course learns the offense and when it's okay to attack the basket.  But what makes him special is the fact that he is that tall and can flat out stroke it from well behind the line.  It changes defenses when a guy can stand 3 ft behind the 3 point line and stroke the 3 with ease.  His man is forced to play farther out on him and that impacts their ability to help down on someone like Mayer or on backdoor cuts.  I'm hoping Robinson gets some regular PT this year and I do think he'll have an immediate impact even if he isn't getting a lot of shot attempts, he's still going to be someone the other teams have to respect.  Last year Klemm scored 70% of his points from 3 and I would not be surprised to see a similar stat from Robinson this year.   

[P'bearfan]

It changes defenses when a guy can stand 3 ft behind the 3 point line and stroke the 3 with ease.  His man is forced to play farther out on him and that impacts their ability to help down on someone like Mayer or on backdoor cuts.

Completely agree.  Given how well he shoots the 3, if Robinson sets up behind the line you need to play him tight and aggressively deny him the ball to reduce his number of touches.  Given his height, that's hard to do with a defender who is only 6'-2" or 6'-3".  Ideally you would put a big on him and that, as you point out, really changes your options to defend down low.

[middhoops]

Madz, we non-Eph fans are hoping that Robinson will follow that script this year.  He is capable of being very disruptive.  Now.
When I saw his (former recruiting) twin Kurt Steidl play recently; he scored in several different ways against big physical D1 players.   Steidl can't weigh more than 180 and he's a bit shorter, but like Robinson he has a complete game. 

[amh63]

Often with some players of many talents,  there are the things one cannot "see " on video or live.  Such things as competative drive, wiry strength in a slight built and leadership abilities and BB IQ.  These things are soon picked up by coaches and rewarded with PT.  Willy Workman, was one from the start.  He is 6'6" and never was listed over 195 ...yet will battle with anyone for a rebound...and got up for all the Williams games in his 4 years.  Another is Aaron Toomey.  Slightly built, he gets a surprisingly number of boards and will strip the ball from anyone underneath.

[nescac1]

True enough, amh63.  Although I do recall seeing Toomey on video his senior year in H.S. and his tremendous skill set was readily apparent, to the point where I was stunned more D-1 schools did not focus on him, notwithstanding his stature.  He looked substantially better as a H.S. player than a lot of Patriot League players I've seen, for sure.   And Workman's athleticism and ball skills for his size jumped off the charts -- had he been healthy through high school, I guarantee he would have received a lot of D-1 offers, but injuries kept him way under the radar if I recall. 

Looking forward to the big middhoops season preview! 

[amh63]

Nescac1 ...you seem to have great " eyes" wrt to video.  There is a story about Aaron Toomey and how Coach Hixon "found" him I read/heard somewhere.  Aaron was indeed a recognized player in N.C. and was asked by some Div 1 schools to be a preferred walk-on.  Coach Hixon has a number of "scouts" that he trusts to give him an evaluation of players of interest.  Aaron was at a players' tourney/ camp nearby and Hixon had a friend go watch and report...though Aaron had an injury of sorts..hand? ..that was not reported.  The evaluation came in and it was similiar to another Coach Hixon had on Aaron.  Both did not get Coach Hixon too excited...even though there was a need for PGs at Amherst.  The story goes that Aaron's  HS coach sent up a video to Hixon and requested that he take a look.
Coach Hixon did take a look..and I am paraphrasing here...and after only a few minutes, he was on the phone to the H.S. Coach and/ or Aaron.  Coach was excited about what he saw and the rest of the story we know.