MBB: NESCAC

[nescac1]

30 for 30, now you are quoting something I didn't actually say!  Let's just leave it as this: I hope very much that Hart succeeds wherever he lands. 

[JustAFan]

There's D1 basketball and then there's real D1 basketball. The schools being suggested (Hartford, Niagara) are at the bottom of the D1 pile and are D1 in name only when it comes to D1 basketball.  What makes no sense to me is why Mr. Hart is willing to forego a Hamilton degree to pursue a dream of so-called D1 basketball.  Maybe he thinks the team will never get better, either due to lack of institutional commitment or the coaching staff or whatever....but if so, why isn't he considering Ivy or Patriot league schools instead of the schools being suggested?  Maybe he is, but based on the stories so far the academic component of this story doesn't make any sense to me.  At this point in his life, I would think that thoughts about "life after college" should start emerging as a topic of equal priority as an ebbing basketball career, and ways to help launch a career after college would begin to assume more importance than basketball.

Can Hart play at the next level? Perhaps so, to some degree. After all, we're not talking about a transfer to a mid-major or high major here, although there is some precedent for that as well (see Jimmy Boylan, who transferred from Assumption College to Marquette in 1975 and helped them win the national title).  In any event, good luck to the young man. I'm sure there is a lot more to the story than we'll ever be privy to.

[grabtherim]

Whatever a transferring players motivations might be, are between him, his family and his coach.  To sit here and praise or criticize is ridiculous.  If and when he chooses to make things public is up to him.  All any of us should do is wish him well.  This episode made me wonder, has a NESCAC player ever transferred from one school in the league to another?   

[nescac1]

Intra-NESCAC transfers are rare, but not unheard of.  At least a few guys who were prominent players in the league have done so: Craig Coupe (a NESCAC ROY) went from Tufts to Trinity.  Keith Wolff (an all-American caliber player) transferred from Williams to Trinity, and actually led Trinity to its only Final Four appearance.  I can't think of anyone else ... I'm guessing that NESCAC coaches, who know each other well, are not keen on poaching players from one another, so it would have to, one would think, be a very unusual situation for a NESCAC coach to accept another NESCAC player as a transfer. 

[nescac1]

Oh, and I agree that none of us know Hart's motiviations and even if we did, we are in no position to second guess.  I imagine that Jeff Van Gundy's parents were less than thrilled when he transferred from Yale to Nazareth to play hoops.  It seems to have worked out pretty well for him ...

[GoWesYoungMan]

Good luck to Hart. He did not have a great outing at Wes but based on his season stats he is definitely top ten NESCAC talent. Most of the players in that group could fill the end of the bench on lower D1 teams and could contribute offensively in spot situations at the mid major level. Most of the comments here seem directed at a player's ability to score but I think the bigger problem for NESCAC players aspiring to D1 is defense--who will they guard? Good D3 players have the skill but typically lack the combo of size and speed to guard D1 athletes. From my observation the NESCAC players most equipped to make the transition would be Sabety and Robinson (though he would be asked to hit the weights). Hart wants to test himself against a higher level of athleticism and I wish him well.

[dman]

I remember a player whose name was Kevin Scura who was on the Williams roster around 2006 and then transferred to Wesleyan, where he actually may have started a few games....

[middhoops]

Good luck to Hart. He did not have a great outing at Wes but based on his season stats he is definitely top ten NESCAC talent. Most of the players in that group could fill the end of the bench on lower D1 teams and could contribute offensively in spot situations at the mid major level. Most of the comments here seem directed at a player's ability to score but I think the bigger problem for NESCAC players aspiring to D1 is defense--who will they guard? Good D3 players have the skill but typically lack the combo of size and speed to guard D1 athletes. From my observation the NESCAC players most equipped to make the transition would be Sabety and Robinson (though he would be asked to hit the weights). Hart wants to test himself against a higher level of athleticism and I wish him well.

Agreed.  I think most coaches would put David George near the top of the list, as well.  He's going to be a very scary beast and is more athletic than Robinson and Sabety.  And that's saying a lot.

[grabtherim]

Robinson is a legit D1 talent. I see Sabety as the same. The difference between them is one plays for a coach with a real chance for a D1 future while the other is led by a guy who seems to get less with more over and over again.

[Old Guy]

Hart reminds me of JJ Riddick, about whose limitations many of the same things were said. I wish him well. It will be interesting to see how he does. It may be he will have an easier time getting his shot off, as presumably opponents won't be able to stack their defenses to the same degree to stop him.

I can't think of a basketball example of an in-conference transfer but Middlebury was being lucky enough to get quarterback Mike Keenan (from Rutland VT; also played basketball) '02-'04, who had a terrific three years at Midd after transferring from Williams, where he was was stuck behind an all-conference player in his class.

Also, some years ago, 1995-98, Middlebury had two hockey goalies who arrived at the same time, Chris Farion and Francois Bourbeau (Frankie Bobo). The incumbent goalie, Joe Branca, seeing the handwriting on the wall, transferred to Amherst, had an outstanding two years (may have been made All-NESCAC second-team). Farion/Bourbeau, who split time evenly, were both All-Americans and won four successive National Championships!

[hoya73]

Great stuff, Old Guy.  That's why you get the big money!  I had a Midd kid in between those two eras and remember both the Hockey dominance of both the men's and women's teams as well as Keenan, who I believe started an era of a dominant Midd passing attack.

[toad22]

Amherst had a defensive lineman who transferred from Colby in the mid 90s. I can 't recall his name, but i remember that he played for several years in the NFL.

[creakyknees]

The Colby to Amhest transfer in the mid to late 90's was Alex Bernstein - a hefty defensive lineman who bounced around in the NFL for 3 or 4 years before heading off to Harvard B school.

[amh63]

Seems football has creeped into this board .
Thanks Creakyknees!....went to the archives...Alex  Bernstein was from Edina MN and was listed at 6'4", 315 lbs.in 1997, his senior year at Amherst.  Made All-American and was drafted by the Baltimore Ravens.  It was Coach Mills' first year...and the team went 7-1.  The only downside to the season was the lost to Williams .

[madzillagd]

Reading through the D1 comments, I think JustAFan brought up the best point.  It's like asking the question: how good do you have to be to play on a bad basketball team?  I look at it this way, we haven't seen very many D3 to D1 transfers but we have seen a lot of D1 to D3 transfers and when that happens routinely every year around the country, those players are not regularly showing up on the All American lists.  If the talent is that much greater of a lower D1 bench player than a great D3 player, then you'd think those players would dominate when they transfer down but that isn't what we've been seeing.  There are definitely some very good players and they play well at the D3 level, but they are not automatically head and shoulders above the rest.