MBB: NESCAC

[hoya73]

Enough already!!  Love the dead horse cartoon.  As Rodney King would say, can't we all get along as we all clearly agree (I think) as follows:

1.  A terrific kid and a great talent--certainly All First Team by the end of the year BUT HE WAS A FRESHMAN and the coaches don't do that;

2.  Perfect storm occurred--Maker/Beiline connection, Maker leaving, DR growing, etc.

I am on this Board all the time and I don't even know what the fight is about.  And don't tell me!

[Bucket]

First off, congratulations to Duncan (no matter what he decides); outstanding player, from all accounts a great kid, and someone who is giving the NESCAC the further credibility.
My question is does he have to sit out a year? It is my understanding that if you transfer up you have to sit out a year to create disincentives for D1 programs to poach from D2 and D3 athletes. However, I know the NCAA will grant waivers to student-athletes who transfer programs in unique situations (ie with coaching changes)
Do we know what the situation will be here? Probably not a terrible thing for him to sit out and take some time to adjust to a big time program.

Yes, he would need to sit out a year, which would be perfect for him. He'll need to get stronger and adjust to the rigors of DI basketball. He'll be allowed to practice, work with the strength and conditioning coach, do everything but suit up for games. The ideal scenario, really.

[lefrakenstein]

Varun Ram was a pretty middling player at Trinity before transferring to Maryland. He appeared in 16 games last season and played about 7 minutes per game.

I'm not sure that the current iteration of the terrapins squad qualifies as a powerhouse, but that seems to suggest that you don't need to be All-NESCAC caliber to potentially contribute at a major D1 basketball program if you find the right situation.

[amh63]

I'm reminded at times as Fall Slowly approaches for the Nescac, the voice in the back seat on a trip stating.."Are we there YET!".  Not implying anything to any poster...for I'm one of the voices!  I have read the posts on other boards, envious to a degree, of the start of college practices in mid August.
In any case...I have posted a Baseball story elsewhere and will mention it here...FYI ...as a indication that indeed Fall for Amherst sports arrive this weekend...for me in a small way.
The Amherst Baseball team lead by a student of Old Guy...who taught him all he knows...is starting a historic trip to the Far East on August 3.  The trip to Japan and a game with Amherst's sister school, etc are detailed on the Amherst Website.  For Amherst, FY and Transfers arrive on 24 August....not soon enough for me.

[Panthernation]

Varun Ram was a pretty middling player at Trinity before transferring to Maryland. He appeared in 16 games last season and played about 7 minutes per game.

I'm not sure that the current iteration of the terrapins squad qualifies as a powerhouse, but that seems to suggest that you don't need to be All-NESCAC caliber to potentially contribute at a major D1 basketball program if you find the right situation.

Walked on after transferring and earned a scholarship this year. (Again, pretty cool that the article was written by a former sports editor of the Tufts Daily who is now the Terrapins beat writer for the Washington Post): http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/terrapins-insider/wp/2013/10/25/former-walk-on-varun-ram-defies-expectations-earns-scholarship-for-terps/

[NothingButNESCAC]

Our leading contributor Peter Lindholm overviews what we have heard about the Duncan Robinson process so far and what a potential move would mean for the NESCAC.  http://nothingbutnescac.com/2014/07/31/williams-duncan-robinson-mulls-transfer/

I'm also going to be writing a slightly longer piece about all of this once Robinson decides, but this article is a really good overview of everything that has happened so far. Also just want to say I feel bad that we didn't cover Matt Hart's departure from Hamilton at all, but we will try to make up for it later.

[30 for 30]

Good article in today's WSJ sums up where we're at in the this discussion

http://online.wsj.com/articles/is-this-sports-column-elite-1406736818

First Hart and it now it appears Robinson are taking a rare route to play big time college basketball. We are all aware of and have been entertained by their skills. Some on this board may know more about their passion for the game, work ethic and dreams. Probably safe to say they both have plenty of those intangibles thus the desire to make this move. Both are already in the upper echelon of players in DIII with multiple years of eligibility remaining. The time is right to make this move if it fits ones aspirations. NCAA rules prohibit coach/player contact in these situations until the player release is granted. Thus players go into this process with many unknowns, certainly no guarantees. There is no coach carnival barking as is the case in high school recruiting. It appears both will continue their education at fine institutions, little if any academic sacrifice. They both have to sit this year. Good for both as games and bodies appear to still be growing. They are both reaching high into the RPI's at their program of choice, another good move. Having seen them perform I believe this is a calculated risk, not a gamble and they will both make it onto the court for meaningful minutes. Regardless, a bold move by both that deserves nothing but applause and support. College is a time to learn, what an education these boys will get on and off the court. All the best to both of them.

[toad22]

My feeling is that a jump to Michigan is a risk that Duncan need not take. If he goes to Michigan and becomes a reliable shooter and trusted rotation player, but not a star, he will have hurt his chances for a long and financially profitable career playing in Europe (something that I believe he aspires to). If he sits on the bench, his dreams are nearly ended. Duncan will generate far more publicity and interest in his basketball career by staying at Williams and playing great basketball in the NESCAC. Particularly since he will have turned down a big-time  scholarship at Michigan to stay. His chances of becoming a one, two, or three time national POY are quite high. Moreover, I assert that in the unlikely event that he should suffer a career ending injury, he is far better off getting a degree from Williams than from Michigan. Thus, the only way he benefits from transferring is if he becomes a star at Michigan, and becomes a first round draft pick in the NBA draft. I hope for him that that is what happens, but it is not the likeliest outcome.

[middhoops]

I respectfully disagree, Toad.
There is something in many great athletes that makes them want to test themselves at the highest level they can reach.  No high scoring high school sophomore wants to stay on the JV squad even though he may sit the bench and get embarrassed in practice once elevated.
If DR were transferring to Arkansas instead of Michigan, the academic contrast would be more stark.  If he goes, this kid is smart enough to know exactly what he's leaving behind, probably making the decision painfully difficult. 
Interesting that a minor league European team would rather have a heralded D3 player than an obscure D1 player of greater skill.  Is that really true?
I have a nephew who was unheard of in college, didn't put up numbers, but his skill level got noticed and he's playing for the Miami Heat now.
Without knowing what motivates an individual, how can you say "...the only way he benefits from transferring is if he becomes a star at Michigan, and becomes a first round draft pick in the NBA draft."
We all know that is not going to happen, and I don't think you mean that, either. 

Truth be told, if he were my son, I'd tell him he's in the perfect place now; that a degree from Williams is a key no one should toss away.  But he's not, and I'm not paying 50 Gs a year to send him there.
He has an opportunity to step WAY up in competitive level.  And, essentially, get paid for it.
How many kids can refuse that?

[jumpshot]

Toad's comments are precisely correct.

DR is far better positioned as a basketball player for the foreseeable future playing the maximum minutes every game at Williams against solid NESCAC and national competition than more limited minutes, sitting out a year, leaving his friends and the long-term relationships and benefits of Williams College (ask any Williams alumnus about the immediate and sustained effectiveness of the Williams network and gift of a Williams education; ever see pictures of the annual Williams reunion which typically includes, for example, well over half the class of a standard 15th reunion class return from all over the world with family and children?), etc.

The risks of transferring certainly do not create a commensurate reward greater than what DR will have created for himself regarding his future after college in basketball a short 36 months from now at Williams, as well for his entire life from the total Williams experience which is for 40 years, not simply 4 years.

Those of us who played multiple sports in what is now NESCAC are able to "see around the corner" and clearly understand these matters.

Best wishes to DR for a fulfilling and productive life from whatever choices he makes.

[toad22]

I completely understand Middhoops' point. Who could resist? If I had had his chance at his age, I probably would't have been able to resist either.

[amh63]

Hello August!   Seems that Hoopdirt blog reported last night that two assistant Colby MBB coaches have departed and plan to enter other fields.  Yes, this has been a season of much coaching changes among the conference schools.  Surprising to me is that the Colby's team..with innovative bench antics....was an up and coming squad....solid core of players.  Anyone have any inside "scoop" on the situation/matter?

[nescac1]

Advantages of Williams are not small: best undergraduate education in the country (at least according to Forbes and U.S. News ); unparalleled alumni network; chance to be a big fish (basketball-wise) in a relatively small pond; likely to be a four-time all-American, national POY, four-time NCAA participant, and the all-time leading scorer at Williams if he sticks around (could build just a tremendous legacy); staying in comfort zone with system (assuming App keeps Maker's system in place, which seems likely) and teammates he knows and likes; geographical proximity to hometown; would not have to sit out a year; would not have spend hours and hours building his physique to be competitive. 

But, the advantages of Michigan are not small, either: chance to be a nationally-known basketball player if things pan out; free-ride to an internationally-recognized university; the ability (if that is what is desired) to focus more on basketball with less academic pressure (plenty of classes geared towards athletes at Michigan, while none at Williams); playing for one of the best basketball minds in the business; likely chance to play in the NCAA D1 tourney at least once and likely several times; chance to test himself against some of the best basketball players in the country; and I imagine being a Michigan basketball alum carries plenty of advantages, for both hoops and non-hoops related jobs.

It's not an easy decision, and certainly, an enviable one. 

Davidson, to me, offers few of the advantages of Michigan as compared to Williams, other than a free ride and a step up in competition, so I'd be surprised if he chose to go there.  Unless you are Stephen Curry, Davidson basketball players are, both during and after college, essentially as anonymous nationally as Williams players, and the odds of playing in the NCAA tourney are far lower at Davidson than Williams.  But, a full scholarship to a top academic institution is still nothing to sneer at. 

[jayhawk]

At least in my opinion this is Duncan Robinson's decision to make. He has worked very hard to put himself in the position to be able to have a choice and make a decision. With all due respect to people from NESCAC and a NESCAC centric perspective I can say that graduates of Davidson and Michigan have had tremendous success in a number of areas : medicine, law business. I know this for a fact, yes a greater percentage of individuals from NESCAC schools may have reached success- Also what it is the measure of success??? Each person should try to please themselves and decided what that success is

Williams is a great institution.

In the era of the internet and associated media it feels like it is difficult for a 19 year old to have the space and privacy to make a decision on his own. I have told my own children to pursue their own dreams, go for what they think will make them happy, don't try to please others, and that if it is ok to take a chance- it will work out. I am sure that Duncan Robinson will have bright future both during college and afterward. Even were Duncan Robinson to leave Williams, I am sure he has made many friends  from Williams which will serve him well in the future.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I imagine the two year trajectory of Nick Stauskas weighs heavy on this decision.  He went from being a lanky spot up shooter to an NBA first round pick with hard work and Michigan coaching.  It was a pretty remarkable transformation.  He was certainly a higher profile recruit, but physically and athletically he didn't start out with any more than Duncan Robinson has to work with.  Not saying he can be Stauskas, but it's a pretty obvious blueprint for development that has to be hard to ignore.