MBB: NESCAC

[Pat Coleman]

Agree with A05 on the game delay.  It's a nice concept but impossible to implement any type of change like that.  When there is a tragic event of some sort or weather issues we will often see a schedule change, but when it comes to injury or illness it's just too hard to determine where to draw the line.  We have to keep in mind that in not only impacts the NESCAC but it impacts every single team in the Northeast region. What happens if the determining factor between Midd making the tournament and another team making the tournament was a single game?

If there is a circumstance that makes this necessary, or makes the discussion necessary, it should be handled by the conference office, not between two teams. That's what the conference office is for.

[booyakasha]

Interesting discussion wrt to Zack Ray.  However the last post concerning Ray for Olsen is a long, long jump wrt praise, imo.  Watched the Olsen led teams many times in conference battles and OOC games..live too.  Olsen was National POY twice!  Ray may have won Def. POY in the conference...great.  Olsen did not have to focus on that area, imo since he had a bunch of stoppers behind him!

Of course we will never know, but you discredit your own argument a bit with your last sentence.

We can all agree that both were excellent.

[middhoops]

Agree with A05 on the game delay.  It's a nice concept but impossible to implement any type of change like that.  When there is a tragic event of some sort or weather issues we will often see a schedule change, but when it comes to injury or illness it's just too hard to determine where to draw the line.  We have to keep in mind that in not only impacts the NESCAC but it impacts every single team in the Northeast region. What happens if the determining factor between Midd making the tournament and another team making the tournament was a single game?

If there is a circumstance that makes this necessary, or makes the discussion necessary, it should be handled by the conference office, not between two teams. That's what the conference office is for.

Yes, Pat. 
Zacktly.

[Panthernation]

Fully agree with Madzilla on the game.  What is to stop every coach trying to move games due to players being sick?  It could be the whole team, it could be 2-3 starters.  We would never know the truth and it would be a horrendous precedent to set.

This argument in particular seems like a silly one to get so much endorsement. It was a one day difference based on a pretty exceptional situation.

Note the substantial difference between OG saying it's unfortunate Bates didn't accept the request (which he did say), and saying that it's not justifiably within their discretion (which he didn't say). Not all slopes are slippery.

[madzillagd]

It was a one day difference based on a pretty exceptional situation.

This is the part I'm not getting.  Why is having to play 2 games at reduced strength exceptional? This happens all the time for illness/injury. 

[AmherstStudent05]

Fully agree with Madzilla on the game.  What is to stop every coach trying to move games due to players being sick?  It could be the whole team, it could be 2-3 starters.  We would never know the truth and it would be a horrendous precedent to set.

This argument in particular seems like a silly one to get so much endorsement. It was a one day difference based on a pretty exceptional situation.

Note the substantial difference between OG saying it's unfortunate Bates didn't accept the request (which he did say), and saying that it's not justifiably within their discretion (which he didn't say). Not all slopes are slippery.

I don't think there has been much argument as to whether Bates had the discretion to reject Middlebury's request for a 1-day postponement (a request that, I would hope, would then have to be ratified by the league office per Pat C.'s post above).  The question has just been whether it is fair to make adverse judgments about how Bates chose to exercise its discretion in this instance.

I fully agree that not all slopes are slippery, but this one sure seems to be.  Again, I have no doubt that some (many) Middlebury players were quite sick leading up to the Bates game.  But nearly all of them ended up playing.  Many of them ended up playing quite well apparently as Midd nearly won the game.  With that in mind, it is difficult to identify precisely what the "exceptional situation" was.  Do we judge it by the number of people who were affected or by the overall impact to the team?  What's worse, HRL at 0% or MSA and JB each at 50%.  I just don't know how we could ever come up with clear ground rules to handle these issues.

[Bucket]

It was a one day difference based on a pretty exceptional situation.

This is the part I'm not getting.  Why is having to play 2 games at reduced strength exceptional? This happens all the time for illness/injury.

Acknowledging the risk of wading back into a subject I was happy to leave behind....

I think the exceptional component of this scenario is the sheer number of folks sick—9 players, or 3/5 of the team—and how sick they were when the request was made on Thursday, the day before a 5-plus hour travel day.

It's my understanding that Midd was realistically facing a situation where they might have had to forfeit the game. Now, of course that didn't happen, and all but two of those sick managed to dress and take the court—albeit in a very reduced capacity. So, in hindsight, one can take the point of view of: most of the kids were well enough to play, so Bates made the right call. The other side can take the point of view that given the circumstances, it would not have been logistically difficult to move the game to Saturday and, one (or two!) can argue that this would have been a gesture of sportsmanship that the NESCAC holds dear.

But no matter. I, for one, am past this, tho wanted to give an answer—or at least my perspective—on madzillagd's above query.

[madzillagd]

Makes sense.  I think if we are going to truly invoke the spirit of the NESCAC then the conference makes them forfeit the game because they'd rather have them stay home and study.      

[amh63]

To change the topic a little here.....FYI......on the website at Amherst Athletics...Williams game writeup....there is a short video taken from the NSN broadcast of the game...edited highlights.
Though it is a bias edit...it provides some of the excitement in LeFrak in the last few part of regulation and in OT.   There are a large number of photos of the game...full house shot, Amherst students reacting to plays and of course the players playing.  Some nice pix of how physical the play was on the floor...often missed live and on-line.

[maineman]

Perhaps because Coach Brown is well connected at Bates, as a former head coach, Middlebury thought the request for a 1 day delay of the game would have a reasonable shot of being favorably received?

[lumbercat]

I'm going to bite my tongue on this- my point is well known. I will say nothing more about my philosophical position about cancellations beyond this compliment.

I believe the Middlebury TEAM will extract something favorable from the whole "episode". They could have quit, forfeited and gone back to bed but they got on the bus and competed. Thats another thing that the NESCAC  is is about along with sportsmanship.......competing with a no quit attitude and facing adversity head on. A tip of the hat to those Panthers who gutted it out at Bates.

I commend the Middlebury team for a valiant effort under duress.....believe it will serve them well in a very tight NESCAC title run.....and maybe beyond.

Let's look forward to tomorrow's games.

[grabtherim]

Point well made lumbercat.  I have read all of the back and forth on this and think valid points have been made by all.  I simply see illness and injuries as being substantially similar obstacles that teams face during a season.  Perhaps the greatest thing about being on a team or watching one is the growth and cohesiveness that is gained by experiencing the ups and downs of a season.  I can't speak for anyone here, but I remember the courage of so many teammates in games where they had no business playing.  The win or loss in those games mean nothing to me. 

I believe the Middlebury TEAM will extract something favorable from the whole "episode". They could have quit, forfeited and gone back to bed but they got on the bus and competed. Thats another thing that the NESCAC  is is about along with sportsmanship.......competing with a no quit attitude and facing adversity head on. A tip of the hat to those Panthers who gutted it out at Bates.

I commend the Middlebury team for a valiant effort under duress.....believe it will serve them well in a very tight NESCAC title run.....and maybe beyond.

[MENESCACFAN]

Think one point is missed.  The Middlebury team was allegedly so sick (no proof) they forfeited, so we want them to play 2 games back to back Sat/Sun with no rest day?  Doesn't seem a fantastic idea to be honest.

[middhoops]

Think one point is missed.  The Middlebury team was allegedly so sick (no proof) they forfeited, so we want them to play 2 games back to back Sat/Sun with no rest day?  Doesn't seem a fantastic idea to be honest.

(my underline, italic and bold)

Geez, things were calming down.  Why did you have to say that?
There is plenty of proof.
Let's just live with the facts and move on.  Please, no more incendiary language.

[P'bearfan]

Bowdon travels to Waterville today to take on Colby.  The P'bears have been playing well  in their last few games.  They have moved the ball exceptionally well which has created a more balanced offensive attack. 

The game today was always going to be a tough challenge but things just got tougher as Keegan Pieri is unlikely to play after being injured in the game against UMPI.   That means Bowdoin will be playing without 2 of their starting 5 from the beginning of the year.  Tough break at anytime but especially in the heart of conference play.

Expect HBC Gilbride will start with 3 guards (Hurley, Hausman, Donnelly).  I also expect that Sophmore Jack Hewitt and FY Liam Farley will get more playing time.   

Good luck to the P'bears and best wishes to Keegan Pieri for a quick recovery.