MBB: NESCAC

P'bearfan · February 08, 2015, 02:28:00 PM

Bowdoin defeats Midd:88-70

Really nice win for the P'bears - as this was one of their more balanced attacks. They had 4 players in double figures. Swords had one his best games of the year scoring 20 points. Bowdoin shot 52% from the floor including 50% from downtown. Also Bowdoin took care of the ball and only committed 8 turnovers.

Hopefully Bowdoin can build on the momentum of the last two games and continue their great play next Friday when they host Bates.

GoUBears!

Bucket · February 08, 2015, 02:29:22 PM

Congrats to Bowdoin. The better team won--in impressive fashion. The Polor Bears were better in all facets of the game. Simply superb on offense, maintaining their 50 % shooting percentage the entire game.

Middlebury is at its best when the Panthers are moving/distributing the ball, and this was not one of those games. Only 7 assists.

A nightmare from behind the arc for Midd: 9-32, and one just felt desperation setting in early as Bowdoin was just so efficient on the other end.

Perhaps Swords best offensive performance of the year? 20 pts on 10-13 shooting? I recall someone noting his lack of offensive impact this year...I wish you had not woken the giant!

Matt St. Amour had a nice game: 23 points (9-12).

In all likelihood, Middlebury will need a big weekend in Pepin to extend its season. Panthers currently tied with Wes for the 8th spot, with Midd holding the tiebreaker. Can't afford to lose both and hope other games shake out in our favor.

Hopefully Middlebury can channel the frustration and bounce back at home. We'll see.

nescac1 · February 08, 2015, 02:31:26 PM

A task well-suited to a NESCAC undergrad, which I anticipate we will certainly see from Nothing But NESCAC: a full breakdown of all the playoff possibilities at stake in the last weekend of play. Trinity has the one seed locked down, Conn is out and Hamilton is either out or almost surely out. Seems like it comes down to, most likely, Wesleyan or Midd for the 8th seed. 2-7 are a morass, however ... especially critical are those Bates and Tufts v. Bowdoin and Colby games. I know from a Williams perspective that I want Williams and Bates both to sweep, Colby to beat Tufts, Tufts to beat Bowdoin, and Midd to beat Amherst. (I think ....).

grabtherim · February 08, 2015, 02:38:30 PM

Tough season for Midd and their fans especially given the recent successful campaigns. Oh well, you take the bad with the good. As far as gyms go I have been in all of them multiple times and to me Bates is the coolest place to see a game. Feels like Gene Hackman and the Hickory team are about to hit the floor at any moment and run the picket fence. The rest all have their good points except Conn and Trinity which to me have a lack of any real flavor.

amh63 · February 08, 2015, 02:42:05 PM

Never question the possibility of Bates hosting a semi-final CAC game. With the possibility of hosting the CAC tourny...Bates' gym with a posted capacity of 750 becomes questionable. Tufts' renovated gym has a posted capacity of 1000. Also, parking is a problem. Got the feeling that on the men's side, the NCAA takes into consideration all aspects when a site has to host a 4 team tourny.
I have been to all CAC venues south of the Mass line. Been to the Hamilton site.
Conn College site is small and does not have the " Hoosier" charm of the Bates gym.
Been to the gym at Rochester but remember Old Guy posted that he felt the wall behind the basket was questionable close...even when padded...for players crashing into.
Been in the Wash.& Lee and Roanoke D3 facilities...during my travels.
Been watching the Midd vs Bowdoin game. Bowdoin is hitting on all cylinders this afternoon....hard to beat when Swords, Hurley, and others are playing well...especially Hausman! Sinnickson trying to keep up but not enough Panther supporters, imo.

P'bearfan · February 08, 2015, 02:43:02 PM

QuoteA task well-suited to a NESCAC undergrad, which I anticipate we will certainly see from Nothing But NESCAC: a full breakdown of all the playoff possibilities at stake in the last weekend of play. Trinity has the one seed locked down, Conn is out and Hamilton is either out or almost surely out. Seems like it comes down to, most likely, Wesleyan or Midd for the 8th seed. 2-7 are a morass, however ... especially critical are those Bates and Tufts v. Bowdoin and Colby games. I know from a Williams perspective that I want Williams and Bates both to sweep, Colby to beat Tufts, Tufts to beat Bowdoin, and Midd to beat Amherst. (I think ....).

Interesting....I was just going through the same exercise. Bowdoin of course has to win out against Bates and Tufts (no small task). Then we have to pull for Colby (painful to write that) to beat Tufts and Bates. Somehow Midd has to beat Amherst....and my head hurts...

P'bearfan · February 08, 2015, 02:48:47 PM

QuoteRe Daley-Swords. Watching the webcast, it's impossible to tell whether the call and then no-call are correct. However, regarding moving feet--there was a change in the interpretation of the block-charge this year. No longer does a player have to be "planted." His feet can be moving, as long as he's not laterally sliding into the offensive player. So if Swords was backing him down, and Daley was moving up into the space, and Swords dislodged him, then that's a correct offensive foul.

I have no idea if this was the case or not, but wanted to offer this observation changed interpretation of block charge call.

Bucket - thanks for the clarification. I didn't realize their had been a change to the interpretation. I still don't think a foul should have been called on Swords....but that could certainly be my "homer vision" at work.

Best of luck to Midd the rest of the way.

jumpshot · February 08, 2015, 02:49:23 PM

"Disappointing" is the word for the Middlebury venture into Maine this weekend, losing to Colby (without their key player) and getting crushed by Bowdoin, even with a day of rest.

On offense Mid's approach this season (given the attributes of the players) appears to be pushing the ball up the court quickly and relying on individual skills to score points. That "system"can prove fragile when opponents get back on defense and limit key players defensively, as at Williams where no starting Panthers scored in double digits. Against weaker opponents and on good shooting nights, Mid can appear dominant.

Naturally, inconsistency can result when those favorable circumstances are not present. Other "systems" that rely on traditional point guard floor leadership and team play with disciplined spacing, screens, and cuts may produce more productive results over the course of a season, particularly, if the "helter-skelter" offensive tone seeps into individual and collective defensive performance.

Not being critical ...Coach Brown certainly knows what's best ....Just thoughts for Panther fans based on seeing several Mid games....

AmherstStudent05 · February 08, 2015, 02:54:58 PM

Yeah, I think there are just way too many permutations to calculate at this point.

We obviously know that Trin has locked up the top seed.

Conn and Hamilton are out.

Bates and Amherst have both clinched a tourney berth (I believe they are the only other schools that can say that at this point, but I could be wrong about that).

Neither Wesleyan or Midd can host a tourney game.

AmherstStudent05 · February 08, 2015, 03:04:51 PM

I actually think Bowdoin is definitely in too. I had thought that they could get stuck in a three-way tie at 5-5 with Wes and Midd (which, while I am not sure on tiebreaks, I believe would have to be resolved by coin flip), but I think that can only happen if Williams goes 4-6 or 5-5. I think if either Williams or Colby joins Bowdoin, Midd and Wes at 5-5 the Bears are safe.

Tufts could actually be safe too for similar reasons.

P'bearfan · February 08, 2015, 03:09:55 PM

QuoteI actually think Bowdoin is definitely in too. I had thought that they could get stuck in a three-way tie at 5-5 with Wes and Midd (which, while I am not sure on tiebreaks, I believe would have to be resolved by coin flip), but I think that can only happen if Williams goes 4-6 or 5-5. I think if either Williams or Colby joins Bowdoin, Midd and Wes at 5-5 the Bears are safe.

Tufts could actually be safe too for similar reasons.

Not sure but you may be correct. However, this is where Bowdoin's 1 point loss in OT to Trinity really hurts.

P'bearfan · February 08, 2015, 03:29:30 PM

QuoteBeen in the Wash.& Lee and Roanoke D3 facilities...during my travels.

Regarding W&L: Picturesque school, nice facility, empty stands......

quicksilver · February 08, 2015, 03:33:15 PM

Quote from: AmherstStudent05 on February 08, 2015, 03:04:51 PM
I actually think Bowdoin is definitely in too. I had thought that they could get stuck in a three-way tie at 5-5 with Wes and Midd (which, while I am not sure on tiebreaks, I believe would have to be resolved by coin flip), but I think that can only happen if Williams goes 4-6 or 5-5. I think if either Williams or Colby joins Bowdoin, Midd and Wes at 5-5 the Bears are safe.

Tufts could actually be safe too for similar reasons.

In the case of ties involving 3 or more teams, the first tiebreaker is their records against each other and the next is their records against the top 4 teams. There are several other tests that would be applied in sequence, with the coin flip happening only if the tie cannot be broken under any of the other criteria. If there were a 3-way tie among Wes, Bowdoin, and Middlebury, their records against each other are 1-1 so you would look at their records against the top 4 teams (including teams that may tie for 4th place) -- since we don't know who those top 4 teams are, it is too early to try to apply the second criteria (and the other criteria after that).

Bucket · February 08, 2015, 03:55:12 PM

Quote from: amh63 on February 08, 2015, 02:42:05 PM
Never question the possibility of Bates hosting a semi-final CAC game. With the possibility of hosting the CAC tourny...Bates' gym with a posted capacity of 750 becomes questionable. Tufts' renovated gym has a posted capacity of 1000. Also, parking is a problem. Got the feeling that on the men's side, the NCAA takes into consideration all aspects when a site has to host a 4 team tourny.
I have been to all CAC venues south of the Mass line. Been to the Hamilton site.
Conn College site is small and does not have the " Hoosier" charm of the Bates gym.
Been to the gym at Rochester but remember Old Guy posted that he felt the wall behind the basket was questionable close...even when padded...for players crashing into.
Been in the Wash.& Lee and Roanoke D3 facilities...during my travels.
Been watching the Midd vs Bowdoin game. Bowdoin is hitting on all cylinders this afternoon....hard to beat when Swords, Hurley, and others are playing well...especially Hausman! Sinnickson trying to keep up but not enough Panther supporters, imo.

Amh63, you do realize that a CAC semifinal game IS the CAC tourney, right? Are you thinking NCAA tourney?

AmherstStudent05 · February 08, 2015, 03:55:34 PM

Quote from: quicksilver on February 08, 2015, 03:33:15 PM
Quote from: AmherstStudent05 on February 08, 2015, 03:04:51 PM
I actually think Bowdoin is definitely in too. I had thought that they could get stuck in a three-way tie at 5-5 with Wes and Midd (which, while I am not sure on tiebreaks, I believe would have to be resolved by coin flip), but I think that can only happen if Williams goes 4-6 or 5-5. I think if either Williams or Colby joins Bowdoin, Midd and Wes at 5-5 the Bears are safe.

Tufts could actually be safe too for similar reasons.

In the case of ties involving 3 or more teams, the first tiebreaker is their records against each other and the next is their records against the top 4 teams. There are several other tests that would be applied in sequence, with the coin flip happening only if the tie cannot be broken under any of the other criteria. If there were a 3-way tie among Wes, Bowdoin, and Middlebury, their records against each other are 1-1 so you would look at their records against the top 4 teams (including teams that may tie for 4th place) -- since we don't know who those top 4 teams are, it is too early to try to apply the second criteria (and the other criteria after that).

Many thanks, quicksilver. This is very helpful. Could I possibly trouble you to help me through the following scenario: Bowdoin, Williams, Midd and Wesleyan all end the season tied for 6th with records of 5-5. Bowdoin would have a record of 2-1 against the other three teams. So would Wesleyan. Williams and Midd would each have a record of 1-2.

How would this play out? Do Bowdoin and Wes each "advance" while Williams and Midd are then left behind. And, if so do you then revert back to head-to-head tiebreaks to break the resulting ties between Bowdoin-Wes and Williams-Midd? Therefore, would this scenario shakeout: 6. Wes, 7. Bow, 8. Wil, 9. Midd? Or do you just have to look at how they each fared against the top four teams (whoever they may end up being)?