MBB: NESCAC

[polbear73]

article about Bates basketball in D3 hoops - nice to see
http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2015/bates-tournament-trip-worth-the-wait

Thanks, jayhawk. Great article and picture. Agree with other posters that it's a shame the teams aren't meeting later inthe tournament, but good luck to both and may both teams play well.

[middhoops]

article about Bates basketball in D3 hoops - nice to see
http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2015/bates-tournament-trip-worth-the-wait

Thanks, jayhawk. Great article and picture. Agree with other posters that it's a shame the teams aren't meeting later inthe tournament, but good luck to both and may both teams play well.

This seems to be the problem of regional pairings.  It would have been nice to see these two teams meet in Salem. 
Not seeing many notes on other boards of how the NESCAC rebounded from a shaky start this year.  "One Bid League" bring back any memories?
To be honest, when those voices were speaking up, it appeared they were right.
No one saw Trinity cranking it up and many doubted Bates' ability to reach their potential in December.

[middhoops]

Mea Culpa.
Middlebury coach Jeff Brown actually did predict Trinity would be that good.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

article about Bates basketball in D3 hoops - nice to see
http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2015/bates-tournament-trip-worth-the-wait

Thanks, jayhawk. Great article and picture. Agree with other posters that it's a shame the teams aren't meeting later inthe tournament, but good luck to both and may both teams play well.

This seems to be the problem of regional pairings.  It would have been nice to see these two teams meet in Salem. 
Not seeing many notes on other boards of how the NESCAC rebounded from a shaky start this year.  "One Bid League" bring back any memories?
To be honest, when those voices were speaking up, it appeared they were right.
No one saw Trinity cranking it up and many doubted Bates' ability to reach their potential in December.

That SOS saved the league.  The records certainly weren't as impressive as normal, but neither was anyone else's.  Obviously, an upset in the tournament usually adds a bid as well.  It still looked like "one bid league" in late January.  Certainly a very strange season overall.

[grabtherim]

I was a "one pick" guy thinking the regular season league winner would be the only one unless they lost in the tournament in which case, two. 
So that leaves us with the Amherst and Bates picks. 
While the LJ's were better than many, including a good number of their own fans, gave them credit for, I dont think they should have received a bid.  I simply think the overall body of work this year did not merit a pick.  That said, they will be the team to beat going forward. 
Bates getting in was surprising to me.  I get the regional ranking stuff, but also think how you do in your league should count more than it apparently does.  I like their talent, but by any measure finishing 3rd in your league and then losing at home in the first round of a conference tournament is not a recipe for a trip to the NCAA's.   
In a tournament like this, good teams get hot and often beat better teams.  Anyone remember George Mason? Clearly, Bates is a very good team on a great run, maybe a magical one.  That said, absent the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, at the time of the pick, I simply think their resume didnt measure up.
Before you all jump all over me, I hope Trinity or Bates win it all.  After Middlebury leaves the court for the last time, I become a NESCAC fan with two notable exceptions.  Sorry, but rivalries die hard.     

[jumpshot]

grabtherim ---

What are the two rivalries and what attributes cause you to consider them exceptions?

[JEFFFAN]

I was a "one pick" guy thinking the regular season league winner would be the only one unless they lost in the tournament in which case, two. 
So that leaves us with the Amherst and Bates picks. 
While the LJ's were better than many, including a good number of their own fans, gave them credit for, I dont think they should have received a bid.  I simply think the overall body of work this year did not merit a pick.  That said, they will be the team to beat going forward. 
Bates getting in was surprising to me.  I get the regional ranking stuff, but also think how you do in your league should count more than it apparently does.  I like their talent, but by any measure finishing 3rd in your league and then losing at home in the first round of a conference tournament is not a recipe for a trip to the NCAA's.   
In a tournament like this, good teams get hot and often beat better teams.  Anyone remember George Mason? Clearly, Bates is a very good team on a great run, maybe a magical one.  That said, absent the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, at the time of the pick, I simply think their resume didnt measure up.
Before you all jump all over me, I hope Trinity or Bates win it all.  After Middlebury leaves the court for the last time, I become a NESCAC fan with two notable exceptions.  Sorry, but rivalries die hard.     

Do any of us on this Board have a good enough sense of the D3 hoops world around us to determine how many teams should and should not get in?  We probably understand the weaknesses of the NESCAC teams because we discuss them online every day and week, but not of other programs and conferences around the country.   There has to be a science involved - mainly around strength of schedule - in picking teams for the tournament and I trust that the NESCAC came up high in SOS, thus providing the bids.

Amherst was flawed all year and it should be no surprise that they got knocked out early.   They never really figured out the point guard thing - this with a coach and history where two of the top three players in school history were point guards, Rehnquist being the third - and the underclassmen were, well, underclassmen.   The mystery is Green, who somehow lost his way at the end of the season.  If they were going to make a deep run it had to be with the Green that was ripping it up for parts of February.  Without that, they were easy prey early in the tournament.   Oh - also - their defense stinks!

[NEhoops]

Grabtherim, You didn't think the Bates resume measured up? Who were you comparing them to?

I agree that it would be exciting to see the NESCAC teams spread across various regions each year (we all know that it doesn't happen due to a travel/budget issues). If that was the case, in a lot of years (maybe not this one) we would have definitely seen more final four representation from the conference. Many times NESCAC teams have met early in the tournament and it could realistically be considered a final four game. 

There are a majority of conferences around the country that get one team every year. For them if you don't win your conference championship, you don't get in. The NESCAC has received the most at large bids of any conference since they started playing the tournament. When you have a fifth seed playing a sixth seed for a conference championship its clear that the conference is competitive top to bottom. I think we forget Middlebury didn't even make it and they beat two NCAA tournament teams in the regular season. The league schedule will make you battle tested and prepared to play and beat anyone - case in point with BAT and TRI. I agree that there wasn't a clear cut team(s) at the top this year, but the league continues to be one of the strongest in the Northeast and the country.

The game Friday might be the most exciting of all the Sweet 16 match ups. Somewhat of coin flip in my opinion. At this point in the season and based on both teams ability to grind out games, it will most likely come down to one or two plays. Excited to watch and excited for the NESCAC.

[madzillagd]

I watch a lot of non-NESCAC games, probably more than I do of NESCAC games and I'd say the #4 team in the NESCAC is probably equivalent to the top two teams in the majority of leagues out there.  Same could be said of WIAC and a few other leagues.  A #3 or #4 team doing well in the tournament is not that much of a surprise if they get the right matchups.  It's not a knock on other leagues, it's just a unique situation for the NESCAC and a few other leagues to have basically every school in their conference putting an emphasis on a sport and giving them the resources to try and win.  There are a lot of conferences out there where the bottom half of the conference are filled with schools that aren't really trying to win.  They've got part-time coaches and/or no paid assistants etc. which makes it next to impossible to compete on a national tournament level.  That weakens the teams at the top of those conferences because they don't face the same tests consistently as a NESCAC or WIAC team will face. 

[TIAJeff]

grabtherim ---

What are the two rivalries and what attributes cause you to consider them exceptions?

Amherst and the Yankees?  Or is that redundant?

[WPI89]

I for one "undervalued" the NESCAC this year.  I thought the SOS was artificially inflated (don't ask me to explain why - just a gut feel) - and once again I was proved wrong.

WPI is stuck in some sort of groundhogs day movie for about 10 years.  They are good enough to win 20 - tough schedules and easy schedules mixed in.  But they really do not have another level to raise their game to when the big tourney starts.

Maybe that is a weird compliment to Coach Bartley - as I think he gets everything out of them every night?  WPI has also run into some really hot teams historically.  I would have to take some time to look it up, but I think every time they lose in the first round - the team that beats them - wins at least the next round (Magnus last year, SJF this year, Amherst a number of years back beat them in the second round and I think won the whole thing?).  We have also thrown up some duds.  Biggest problem the past few years has been losing the NEWMAC tourney and thus (correctly) getting very tough matchups.

I digress.....the point I was going to make - is that I am in awe of the NESCAC - change the names of the teams, reload, young teams, mature teams, just win in March - incredible.  Congrats to the fans of Bates and Trinity!

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I for one "undervalued" the NESCAC this year.  I thought the SOS was artificially inflated (don't ask me to explain why - just a gut feel) - and once again I was proved wrong.

Are you sure you were wrong?  Bates, to me, was the best team, and they look to be the favorite this weekend.  Neither Bates nor Trinity had as tough an opening weekend as some of the others.

Unless you thought the NESCAC had dropped completely out of the power conference ranks this year, you may have been right.

I don't think anyone will argue the NESCAC, even with these tournament results is as good as it's been the past few years.

[7express]

I was a "one pick" guy thinking the regular season league winner would be the only one unless they lost in the tournament in which case, two. 
So that leaves us with the Amherst and Bates picks. 
While the LJ's were better than many, including a good number of their own fans, gave them credit for, I dont think they should have received a bid.  I simply think the overall body of work this year did not merit a pick.  That said, they will be the team to beat going forward. 
Bates getting in was surprising to me.  I get the regional ranking stuff, but also think how you do in your league should count more than it apparently does.  I like their talent, but by any measure finishing 3rd in your league and then losing at home in the first round of a conference tournament is not a recipe for a trip to the NCAA's.   
In a tournament like this, good teams get hot and often beat better teams.  Anyone remember George Mason? Clearly, Bates is a very good team on a great run, maybe a magical one.  That said, absent the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, at the time of the pick, I simply think their resume didnt measure up.
Before you all jump all over me, I hope Trinity or Bates win it all.  After Middlebury leaves the court for the last time, I become a NESCAC fan with two notable exceptions.  Sorry, but rivalries die hard.     

Don't even get me started on George Mason!  I was at Hofstra in 2006 when we beat them twice in the final 11 days of the season....9 years later I still hate them!

[Bucket]

I think we forget Middlebury didn't even make it and they beat two NCAA tournament teams in the regular season.

Middlebury actually beat four NCAA tournament teams—Amherst, Wesleyan, Skidmore, and Keene. To make your point even more strong.

[Pat Coleman]

Bates getting in was surprising to me.  I get the regional ranking stuff, but also think how you do in your league should count more than it apparently does. 

If you only play 10 to 13 games vs. teams in your league, how much should the league finish actually count?