MBB: NESCAC

[nescac1]

After the first few weeks of play, I imagine a ranking of the top teams in New England would go something like:

1. Amherst  2. Babson 3. Tufts 4. Keene 5. WPI 6. Endicott 7. Williams 8. Midd 9. Wesleyan 10. Conn College

Ultimately, I think Midd moves up a few slots, but hard to slot them for now above either Endicott or most of the lossless teams.  The upcoming schedule provides a chance to go on a bit of a roll. 

Predicting New England teams in the forthcoming top 25 ranking, Amherst should be number one, I think Marietta slides into the second slot ahead of Babson at 3.  Tufts likely moves up to 4.  After Keene's impressive start and with so many losses from the teams just ahead of them, they might well squeeze into the top 10-12.  Endicott likely supplants Midd in the top 25, and WPI might barely squeeze in or will at least get close. 

WPI-Tufts is obviously the game of the week in the region.  The winner of the other big match-up, Williams-Wesleyan (if both win their other games this week) deserves and hopefully will earn a spot in the national top 25 in two weeks, and is likely to jump up in the regional rankings as well.  Williams might receive a few national votes this week.  I think the Ephs, Endicott, WPI and Midd all look right now like teams in the 20-30 range, nationally.  Endicott's remaining schedule is extraordinarily week -- they should come close to running the table, and may actually do so.  The Ephs, WPI and MIdd all face big games over the next two weeks (Wesleyan, Tufts, and Skidmore) respectively that will provide more insight into their trajectory ...

[amh63]

WPI...hang out as long as you want!   Been somewhat late to this board as the Nescac football board keeps rolling along.  Amherst has been quiet of late, but they should be picking up latter in the week.
Some random thoughts on the CAC teams I "saw" online to date.  There is a bunch of young talented players getting valuable time on all the teams.  As pointed out by others, these early out of conference games against good teams are really an extension of team evaluation by the coaches,IMO.  The CAC  started official practice late wrt to other D3 schools and team scrimmages do not always "cut it".  Man to man defense against teammates is quite different against a tough unknown opponent in a game.  Too often, I believe fans get caught up with early season " ratings"...I know I do.  As seen in seasons' past, the team at the latter part of the season...when wins count much more...must be determined.  Team depth must be known..barring injuries...who are the best defenders, etc.  Case in point is Amherst was not the CAC title winner last season, but went to the Final 4.  In summary, these early games are important in that they help determine the team that will play in the important conference hames to come soon enough.  Those games will determine the post season.
Now back to WPI question.   Tufts is a tough out.  However, after their starting five, they are thin in both size and experience in the front court presently, IMO.  They want to go inside on offense, if allowed, and run when they can.  Perimeter man to man defense is good.  Did not see any zone. Their PG is experienced and very good.

[whyDiii]

Looks like a new top 25 poll should be coming out today..should be interesting with lots of top 25 losses.

Some thoughts from this past week in region:

Middlebury- Should be interesting to see whether or not they can hold their own with the regions elite-could be a tell tale loss to a solid Endicott team

Endicott- Endicott has no more big non-conference games after a win over Midd. and loss to Babson-- could be tough to gauge this team playing in a weak conference here on out

Bowdoin- Played what I thought was by far their best all around game against a tough experienced Babson team. Simonds was unstoppable early with his Dirk-like mid post game-Babson was calm under pressure and grinded out their first close game of the season.

Can Amherst defend some of the regions high powered offenses? remains unproven but Offense looks typical of Amherst in the past-very spread out with it's group of elite shooters

Tufts- Palleschi looks great up front for Tufts-does he have enough support aside from Pace? Tarik Smith continues to be inconsistent and Tufts could be lacking a third weapon.

WPI- definitely not as good as advertised thus far- Bartley getting his team to play hard even after two big players quit his team

Should be a great winter!

[PolarBear16]

I watched the 2nd half of the Bowdoin-Babson game so my thoughts are limited to that. Last year Bowdoin was able to tip Babson at home in December, and for whatever reason Babson almost lost again to a young Polar Bear team. Well a big reason is that Tim Gilbride continues to get the most out of the roster year after year.

One thing that killed Bowdoin yesterday was their lackluster transition defense. Babson hit a few transition threes in the second half that came in semi-transition as Bowdoin was not great at getting back. Some of that is because of personnel. When Simonds plays at the 3 and there are two big men on the floor, Bowdoin does not have enough speed on the floor. I already have visions of Dan Aronowitz or Jeff Racy stepping into wide open threes as Bowdoin scrambles to recover.

One player I want to highlight is sophomore center Hugh O'Neill. Not sure if this has been noted on the board before, but O'Neill only started playing organized basketball in high school as he was a volleyball player before that. For that reason, he is still a work in progress and is improving a lot. I remember last year at this point of the year he was displaying zero touch around the hoop and smashing layups off the backboard. Fast forward to this year and he has much better touch, even displaying a baseline jumper that he hit one of two of. If he can make that shot, it helps immensely to space the floor for Simonds to work 1 on 1 inside. Still, he is most valuable as a true center for Bowdoin. O'Neill is listed at just 6'7", but he looks taller than that and has very long arms. He is really athletic and will continue to develop throughout this year as he works very hard. No one will confuse him with John Swords, but he and Neil Fuller did a good job defending of defending Babson big men Isaiah Nelson and Bradley Jacks. Given all the interior talent in the NESCAC, that will be big going forward.

As an aside, Babson got zero production from their bench. Not sure what the deal with Matt Droney, a 6'5" senior swingman, is, but his minutes have gone from 29.8 per game last year to 11.8 this year and he played just 3 minutes against Bowdoin. I don't understand why a proven performer like Droney is becoming more and more of a non-factor.

[ContinentalDomer]

Some Hamilton highlights from yesterday's 78-70 win over Oswego State - another solid performance to go with a strong second half comeback that contained SUNY-OS 3rd Team All-American Brian Sortino.

https://twitter.com/HamCollMBBall/status/803280397450805248

https://twitter.com/HamCollMBBall/status/803280483031334912

https://twitter.com/HamCollMBBall/status/803280566204256256

https://twitter.com/HamCollMBBall/status/803280716276461568

On Saturday, Hamilton racked up a 96-92 win over Clarkson.  Frosh Kena Gilmour led the way with 26 points, while SO Peter Hamilton chipped in 24.  JR PG Jack Dwyer had 12 points and 7 assists and SO SG/W Michael Grassey had 12 points and 8 rebounds.

Hamilton has come back to take the lead against the Lakers on a 3 pointer to go up 52-51, with 12:39 to go.

Now with 9:54 to go Hamilton still clinging to a 1 point 56-55 lead.

Hamilton opens up their largest lead of the game at 62-55 on back to back 3 pointers by Michael Grassey with 7:52 left in the game.

Oswego now down by 10 points at 70-60 with 3:35 remaining minutes to go.

Oswego cuts the lead to 5 points but now are not looking good as they miss on two straight trips down the floor and Hamilton builds the lead back to 9.

The Lakers not playing well in crunch time and Hamilton comes away with the win, 78-70.

Brian Sortino leads all scorers with 26 points, 6 assists and 4 rebounds.

Ian Schupp has 18 points and Mykelle Krecko has 10.

Oswego falls to 4-2 and will be back in action on Saturday December 3rd when they host Cortland at 2:00 PM. to open SUNYAC play.

Hamilton's Peter Hoffman was the MVP of the tournament and finished with 22 points, 6 rebounds and 4 assists.

Michael Grassey had 18 points and 5 rebounds for the Continentals.

Jack Dwyer finished with a double-double of 15 points and 10 assists. He also had 6 rebounds.

The Continentals improve to 4-1 as Coach Adam Stockwell gains some bragging rights by defeating the two schools he previously coached, before his move to Hamilton.

Hamilton will be off until Saturday December 3rd when they travel to St. David's, Pennslyvania to take on the Eastern University Eagles at 3:00 PM.

[P'bearfan]

PolarBear16....thanks for the post +K to you.

Appreciate the background on Hugh O'Neill...ironically his pre-Bowdoin background is similar to Swords (volley ball vs basketball). 

Also, I very much agree with your comment about Coach Gilbride.  He's does a great job.

GoUBears!!

[magicman]

Shocker of the day is Middlebury losing at home to Endicott. The Panthers had a 17 point lead early in the 2nd half but the Gulls down 55-38 with 18:22 left to play, went on a 12-0 run in a little less than 3 minutes to pull within 5 points at 55-50. Matt St. Amour put an end to the Panther drought with a 3 pointer to make it an 8 point lead but Endicott reeled off 13 more unanswered points to go in front 63-58 with 12:38 to play. The Panthers could never regain the lead and trailed by as may as 8 points.They pulled within 2 points at 91-89 with 11 seconds left but then had to foul and the Gulls knocked down the free throws to make it a final of 93-89.

St. Amour led the Panthers with 33 points. Jack Daly had 22, Adisa Majors had 16 and Zach Baines had 12.

Endicott also had 4 players in double figures led by Kamahl Walker with 28 points. Daquon Sampson had 19 points and 14 rebounds. Max Montroni had 18 points and Chris Lipscomb tossed in 14.

I'm not sure how much of a shocker a 4-point loss is to a very good team. Disappointing for Panther fans, yes. But shocking? Not really.

Endicott is a very good team, head-and-shoulders better than an Eastern Conn team that I thought was pretty good, when Midd beat them down at their place. Middlebury was playing exceptionally well in getting out to that 17-point lead, and then the Gulls played exceptionally well in reversing it. Very evenly played game in just about every statistical category. Middlebury won't see a better guard than Kamahl Walker this year. Daquan Sampson did his damage on the boards and at the free throw line. Midd had too many defensive lapses and gave up too many second-chance points. This type of game is exactly what one wants–aside from outcome, obviously!—early in the season, and I'm confident it will make Middlebury a better team as the season progresses.

Agreed.  Having both Brown and Daly playing with 3 fouls early in the 2nd half didn't help matters any but Endicott simply played Middlebury's 1st half game back at them and did it better.  This was the preseason #24 vs the preseason #26 so there really isn't anything shocking about it.  I noticed Max Motroni when I passed him in the locker room hallway as I was leaving and took the opportunity to congratulate him on a great performance.  His trey at :56 which extended the Endicott lead to 6 points was really the game ending dagger.  The Panthers twice narrowed the deficit to two in the final 18 seconds but each time Daquon Sampson answered by sinking a pair from the charity stripe.  Good teams learn from their mistakes.   Middlebury learned a few things tonight.     

Vandy,

I didn't say Middlebury losing to the Gulls was an upset. I stated it was a shocker. I know that Endicott is a good team with all 5 starters back from last year's NCAA team. They are capable of beating a lot of teams with higher profiles, just as they did in the NCAA tournament last year to Catholic and then took Wooster to OT.  But how often have the Panthers, at home, with a 17 point lead, walked off the court a loser? That was the shocker. I may be wrong, but when midd hoops and you left Pepin yesterday, I bet you were more than a little shocked.      

[middhoops]

magicman, we were stunned, for sure.
On the way out, the Middlebury faithful were all praising Endicott. 
We know our team is talented.  Any time a Midd team scores 89 in our barn, we sure expect to win.
Yesterday just wasn't about our guys.

[nescac1]

Wow.   Amherst-Babson-Tufts 1-2-3 in the new poll.  Marietta I figured would be in the top two for sure after blowing out numbers two and seven.  Babson will likely play both Amherst and Tufts in the next few weeks so things are guaranteed to change soon. Have three New England teams ever occupied the top three poll spots before?  If so I can't think when that might be ... maybe 2011? 

[Bucket]

magicman, we were stunned, for sure.
On the way out, the Middlebury faithful were all praising Endicott. 
We know our team is talented.  Any time a Midd team scores 89 in our barn, we sure expect to win.
Yesterday just wasn't about our guys.

Honestly, I wasn't stunned. At least not after the game. Maybe as it was happening, I was, but at the end, I was just left thinking, "Damn we played great for 20 minutes. They played great for 20 minutes. And their 20 as slightly better than our 20." Yes, I was disappointed. But not stunned.

[Vandy74]

Shocker of the day is Middlebury losing at home to Endicott. The Panthers had a 17 point lead early in the 2nd half but the Gulls down 55-38 with 18:22 left to play, went on a 12-0 run in a little less than 3 minutes to pull within 5 points at 55-50. Matt St. Amour put an end to the Panther drought with a 3 pointer to make it an 8 point lead but Endicott reeled off 13 more unanswered points to go in front 63-58 with 12:38 to play. The Panthers could never regain the lead and trailed by as may as 8 points.They pulled within 2 points at 91-89 with 11 seconds left but then had to foul and the Gulls knocked down the free throws to make it a final of 93-89.

St. Amour led the Panthers with 33 points. Jack Daly had 22, Adisa Majors had 16 and Zach Baines had 12.

Endicott also had 4 players in double figures led by Kamahl Walker with 28 points. Daquon Sampson had 19 points and 14 rebounds. Max Montroni had 18 points and Chris Lipscomb tossed in 14.

I'm not sure how much of a shocker a 4-point loss is to a very good team. Disappointing for Panther fans, yes. But shocking? Not really.

Endicott is a very good team, head-and-shoulders better than an Eastern Conn team that I thought was pretty good, when Midd beat them down at their place. Middlebury was playing exceptionally well in getting out to that 17-point lead, and then the Gulls played exceptionally well in reversing it. Very evenly played game in just about every statistical category. Middlebury won't see a better guard than Kamahl Walker this year. Daquan Sampson did his damage on the boards and at the free throw line. Midd had too many defensive lapses and gave up too many second-chance points. This type of game is exactly what one wants–aside from outcome, obviously!—early in the season, and I'm confident it will make Middlebury a better team as the season progresses.

Agreed.  Having both Brown and Daly playing with 3 fouls early in the 2nd half didn't help matters any but Endicott simply played Middlebury's 1st half game back at them and did it better.  This was the preseason #24 vs the preseason #26 so there really isn't anything shocking about it.  I noticed Max Motroni when I passed him in the locker room hallway as I was leaving and took the opportunity to congratulate him on a great performance.  His trey at :56 which extended the Endicott lead to 6 points was really the game ending dagger.  The Panthers twice narrowed the deficit to two in the final 18 seconds but each time Daquon Sampson answered by sinking a pair from the charity stripe.  Good teams learn from their mistakes.   Middlebury learned a few things tonight.     

Vandy,

I didn't say Middlebury losing to the Gulls was an upset. I stated it was a shocker. I know that Endicott is a good team with all 5 starters back from last year's NCAA team. They are capable of beating a lot of teams with higher profiles, just as they did in the NCAA tournament last year to Catholic and then took Wooster to OT.  But how often have the Panthers, at home, with a 17 point lead, walked off the court a loser? That was the shocker. I may be wrong, but when midd hoops and you left Pepin yesterday, I bet you were more than a little shocked.  

magicman........I wasn't shocked.  The way the second half played out the only feeling was disappointment that we were unable to come back and win it as I've seen this program do so many times in Pepin.  17 point leads early in the 2nd half are relatively meaningless.  The 3-point shot has made them that.  Don't forget this was an evenly played game for the first 15 minutes.  The Panthers only dominated the next 7.  It took Endicott only 4 minutes and 39 seconds to erase the deficit with 13:41 remaining in the game.  Once they had taken a three point advantage Middlebury only cut it to two once before the final 18 seconds.  Daquan Sampson was fouled and he made both FT.  He very rudely did it again under the same circumstances 7 seconds later.   He's not much of a house guest but I'd put him on my team any time.  For the final 18:22 of the game Endicott played much better than Middlebury.  That's more than enough time to get over being shocked (or stunned) and accept it.  But don't think I wasn't upset.

[magicman]

Wow.   Amherst-Babson-Tufts 1-2-3 in the new poll.  Marietta I figured would be in the top two for sure after blowing out numbers two and seven.  Babson will likely play both Amherst and Tufts in the next few weeks so things are guaranteed to change soon. Have three New England teams ever occupied the top three poll spots before?  If so I can't think when that might be ... maybe 2011?

nescac1,

I think you're right, I believe this is the first time that 3 New England teams are in the top 3 spots.

In week 2 of the 2011-12 season, Middlebury was #1, Amherst was #2, MIT was #7 and Williams was #8. That was as good as it got that year. Middlebury stayed #1 for most of the year as they were undefeated at 18-0 before losing to Keene State. Hope replaced the Panthers at the top of the poll in week #10. The last regular season poll had Amherst (25-2) #2, MIT (25-1) #3, and Middlebury (24-3) #4.

MIT was the only one of those teams to make the Final Four that year, losing to eventual champion Whitewater in the semifinals.   

[whyDiii]

magicman, we were stunned, for sure.
On the way out, the Middlebury faithful were all praising Endicott. 
We know our team is talented.  Any time a Midd team scores 89 in our barn, we sure expect to win.
Yesterday just wasn't about our guys.

Honestly, I wasn't stunned. At least not after the game. Maybe as it was happening, I was, but at the end, I was just left thinking, "Damn we played great for 20 minutes. They played great for 20 minutes. And their 20 as slightly better than our 20." Yes, I was disappointed. But not stunned.

Definitely not stunned by the result of this one...Endicott and Midd are good teams, but neither appears to be ELITE at this stage in the season..
Middlebury looks like they will really struggle if St. Armor doesnt go off.

[nescac1]

Interesting, thanks magicman!

Early season NESCAC ROY watch:

(1) Kena Gilmour -- he's lived up to the early hype with absolutely ridiculous per-minute totals: 13.2 ppg, 3.0 rpg and 1.6 spg in only 16.2 mpg ... while shooting 60/30/83.  If he starts earning more playing time, he could blow the competition away.  Hamilton is absolutely loaded with young wing talent with Gilmour, Doyle, Hoffman and Grassey.  If Stockwell can bring in one elite big guy to pair with Groll up front, the Continentals could really do some damage in the years ahead.   

(2)  Sean Gilmore -- With six frosh all playing at least 14 mpg, Colby is in full-on rebuilding mode.  So far, Gilmore looks to be the best of them -- 11.2/2.6/2.2 ppg, plus .8 bpg and .8 spg, in only 19.2 mpg.  He also has a weirdly consistent (and impressive) shooting line: 55/56/56.  Could be a battle of the Gilmores for ROY ...

(3) Eric Savage -- posting a nice line of 9.3/2.5/1.5 on 44/34/56 shooting, and most impressive is that he's doing so for a top-3 national team (at least according to D3hoops ). 

(4) David Reynolds -- Reynolds has earned the most PT of any frosh to date, pouring in 9.3 ppg and 5.8 rpg so far for Bowdoin.  But his shooting numbers (34/33/67) will need to improve for him to leapfrog into the top three. 

(5) Nick Seretta -- another very hyped NESCAC recruit, he is already producing as the sixth man for Trinity to the tune of 6 ppg, 4 rpg and 1 bpg.  Look for his production to rise as the season progresses. 

At this point, no one else is earning enough PT to even warrant consideration.  A few guys to watch, however, are big men Matt Karpowicz of Williams, Matt Folger of Middlebury, and Eric Sellew of Amherst.  All three are already in the rotation for strong teams and posting very impressive per-minute totals, but are stuck with relatively small roles in deep frontcourt rotations.  All three would likely be playing more for most other NESCAC programs, and any of them may break out if they start to see more court time -- which is possible considering it takes big guys longer to adjust, typically.  And all three have the look of future multi-year starters.  Bates' hyped frosh backcourt duo of Nick Gilpin and Tom Coyne are two more to watch for as the season progresses, both are starting to earn substantial floor time. 

[Bucket]

magicman, we were stunned, for sure.
On the way out, the Middlebury faithful were all praising Endicott. 
We know our team is talented.  Any time a Midd team scores 89 in our barn, we sure expect to win.
Yesterday just wasn't about our guys.

Honestly, I wasn't stunned. At least not after the game. Maybe as it was happening, I was, but at the end, I was just left thinking, "Damn we played great for 20 minutes. They played great for 20 minutes. And their 20 as slightly better than our 20." Yes, I was disappointed. But not stunned.

Middlebury looks like they will really struggle if St. Armor doesnt go off.

I think it depends on the opponent. Against elite teams, yes, all cylinders need to be firing, but even then Matt doesn't need to score 30+

Against a decent Salem State team (3-1, with a win over the UMass Dartmouth team that beat Trinity and Bowdoin), Matt really struggled from the field— 1-11, 0-6 from 3—and Middlebury won by 27. Zach Baines scored 22 that game; Adisa Majors, 12.

Baines and Majors have both shown they can get points. What Midd can't afford is a poor offensive production off the bench—just 4 points on Sunday. (For the sake of comparison, the bench contributed 31 against Salem State and 14 against Eastern; obviously neither of those teams as good as Endicott, which is why the bench needs to step up against better teams.)