MBB: NESCAC

[toad22]

Nice recruiting pickup for Colby, a former Boston Globe POY:  http://www.newenglandrecruitingreport.com/news/hanna-is-nescac-bound

Hanna adds to Colby's impressive stable of young guards.  Next year looks likely to be another brutal one in NESCAC play for the Mules, who have very little returning upperclass talent.  But the long-term future, in 2-3 years, looks far brighter. 

Really impressive to see the point totals Midd has been putting up, against quality competition, without Jake Brown the last few games.  Matt St. Amour has picked it up in Brown's absence and is absolutely on fire (averaging 30 ppg over the past three games and shooting the lights out) and playing like a first-team all-American.  If Midd wins the NESCAC tourney, they may have a shot of being separated from Babson and may get to host until the Final Four; at the very least, they will be hosting through the first two rounds for certain.

Does anyone know if Jake Brown' ankle will be good to go for Saturday's game against Bates?

I have no inside info, other than knowing that despite every effort, there was no way for him to go against Trinity.

I'm sure the training and coaching staffs are approaching Jake's rehab prudently. Stating the obvious, if he's close to healthy, I bet he plays. But if the trainers were to say that the only way to have Jake healthy in 2 weeks (i.e. first round of NCAA tournament) is to rest, then I can see him sitting out, especially the way Midd has been able to maintain pace without him.

Unless a decision has already been made to sit the weekend out of abundant precaution, my guess is that the coaches themselves don't know yet, and it is wait and see until Saturday.

It would be nice to win the NESCAC tourney, get a higher seed, etc., but the NCAAS are the bigger prize. I'm sure they won't bring him back prematurely, even if he wants to try.

[Bucket]

Nice recruiting pickup for Colby, a former Boston Globe POY:  http://www.newenglandrecruitingreport.com/news/hanna-is-nescac-bound

Hanna adds to Colby's impressive stable of young guards.  Next year looks likely to be another brutal one in NESCAC play for the Mules, who have very little returning upperclass talent.  But the long-term future, in 2-3 years, looks far brighter. 

Really impressive to see the point totals Midd has been putting up, against quality competition, without Jake Brown the last few games.  Matt St. Amour has picked it up in Brown's absence and is absolutely on fire (averaging 30 ppg over the past three games and shooting the lights out) and playing like a first-team all-American.  If Midd wins the NESCAC tourney, they may have a shot of being separated from Babson and may get to host until the Final Four; at the very least, they will be hosting through the first two rounds for certain.

And Jack Daly— a near triple-double against Trinity (19 points, 10 rebounds, 9 assists) and then a solid double-double against Plattsburgh (15 points and 13 assists).

[Cards Fan]

Nice recruiting pickup for Colby, a former Boston Globe POY:  http://www.newenglandrecruitingreport.com/news/hanna-is-nescac-bound

Hanna adds to Colby's impressive stable of young guards.  Next year looks likely to be another brutal one in NESCAC play for the Mules, who have very little returning upperclass talent.  But the long-term future, in 2-3 years, looks far brighter. 

Really impressive to see the point totals Midd has been putting up, against quality competition, without Jake Brown the last few games.  Matt St. Amour has picked it up in Brown's absence and is absolutely on fire (averaging 30 ppg over the past three games and shooting the lights out) and playing like a first-team all-American.  If Midd wins the NESCAC tourney, they may have a shot of being separated from Babson and may get to host until the Final Four; at the very least, they will be hosting through the first two rounds for certain.

Does anyone know if Jake Brown' ankle will be good to go for Saturday's game against Bates?

I have no inside info, other than knowing that despite every effort, there was no way for him to go against Trinity.

I'm sure the training and coaching staffs are approaching Jake's rehab prudently. Stating the obvious, if he's close to healthy, I bet he plays. But if the trainers were to say that the only way to have Jake healthy in 2 weeks (i.e. first round of NCAA tournament) is to rest, then I can see him sitting out, especially the way Midd has been able to maintain pace without him.

Unless a decision has already been made to sit the weekend out of abundant precaution, my guess is that the coaches themselves don't know yet, and it is wait and see until Saturday.

On the topic of injuries, Salim Green has been injured for a good amount of time, but I believe he will be back this weekend. They managed to go 3-1 in his absence.

[Pat Coleman]

Regional rankings: http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2017/02/men-regional-rankings-second

[nescac1]

UMass Dartmouth seems like the only non-NESCAC, non-Babson New England team with a reasonable chance at a Pool C bid.  If they win out but then lose in the LEC finals, which is a very reaslistic scenario, they could be well-positioned.  Kudos to them for playing, and fairing well against, so many top-tier regional teams, including big wins over Tufts, MIT, and Trinity.  Williams and Amherst will certainly be rooting for Babson and UMD (among a number of other teams outside of New England) to win their conference tournaments.  As a side note, Williams and UMD played some classic tourney games back in the 90s ...

[magicman]

Hey nescac1,

That was a great article on Coach Tong. Thanks for the link! I shared it with a few coaches and they all loved it as well.

[magicman]

A copy of my post from the SUNYAC board on the Middlebury-Plattsburgh game.

Middlebury 91  Plattsburgh State 70

This was a ballgame for the first half and part of the 2nd. Plattsburgh had an early 8-3 lead and that was their highlight of the game. Middlebury went ahead with an 18-1 run fueled by 7 points from Jack Daley and back to back 3 pointers from bench player, Liam Naughton. The Panthers never trailed again. The Cardinals fought back  and narrowed the gap to 26-21 but couldn't get any closer and went into the break down 39-33.

The teams traded baskets to start the 2nd period and the margin was still 6 points at 48-42 after 3 minutes had elapsed. That was when Panthers seized control of the game with a 21-7 explosion that gave them a 20 point lead at 69-49 with 11:32 left to play. 9 of those points came from Matt St. Amour who poured in 30 points for Middlebury. Their other guard, Jack Daley, had 4 points and 4 assists during that run. Daley ended up with 13 assists, more than the entire Plattsburgh team. The Panthers 3rd starting guard and 2nd leading scorer, Jake Brown, didn't play in the game as he was recovering from a rolled ankle injury suffered last weekend. Middlebury didn't need him as the combination of Daley and St. Amour along with 4 capable big men proved to be more than the Cardinals could handle. The Panthers got 12 points and 4 rebounds from two back-up guards and that's about what Jake Brown averages per game. The Panthers pushed their lead to as much as 28 points at 87-59 with 4:31 left to play as both coaches emptied their benches.

The Panthers
Matt St. Amour showed why he may very well be the NESCAC Player of the Year. The Cardinals had no answer for him as he alternately scored layups on drives to the hoop or drained 3 pointers. He was 11x15 from the field. 6 layups and 5x7 from downtown. He also had 5 rebounds, 3 assists and 3 steals.

Jack Daley had a double-double with 15 points (6x9 fg, 0x2 3's, 3x3 ft) and 13 assists. He added 4 rebounds and 3 steals.

Adisa Majors had 17 points (5x9 fg, 7x9 ft), 5 rebounds and 2 assists in 24 minutes off the bench.

Nick Tarantino just missed a double-double with 9 points (4x6 fg, 0x1 3's, 1x2 ft)and a game high 11 rebounds.

The Cardinals
Jon Patron led the the team in scoring with 16 points (7x14 fg, 0x2 3's, 2x4 ft). He also grabbed 7 rebounds.

Chris Middleton had 12 points (5x9 fg, 1x3 3's, 1x2 ft) and a team high 8 boards. He added 3 asists and 2 blocks.

Brandon Johnson had 9 points, 6 rebounds, 2 assists and 2 steals off the bench.

Owen Mitchell added 7 points and 2 rebounds off the bench.


Middlebury improves to 21-3 and completes their regular season. They return to the hardwood for the first round of the NESCAC tournament when they host the #7 seed, Bates, this Saturday afternoon at 2:00 PM  in Pepin Gym.

Plattsburgh falls to 11-12 overall and 7-9 in conference play. They are still alive for a playoff spot but are in a must win situation this weekend on the road against New Paltz and Oneonta. The Hawks are up first on Friday at 5:30 PM.
     

[nescac1]

Thanks for all the positive feedback on the Tong article, everyone!

I guess I spoke too soon on UMass Dartmouth, which lost to UMass Boston last night.  UMD, Keene (also a loser last night) and Eastern Conn all now have eight losses -- and there is no way any of those squads will get a Pool C bid with 9 losses.  So the only realistic Pool C candidates from New England are the five regionally-ranked NESCAC squads, Babson (which of course is a lock no matter what) if they lose in NEWMAC tourney, and possibly MIT, although I think MIT, despite a good record, would have a really tough time without a single win vs. a regionally-ranked opponent and certainly doesn't warrant inclusion over Amherst or Williams. 

[NEhoops]

MIT plays at Babson on Saturday. If they win that game, things could change. Otherwise, I think they have to win the NEWMAC tournament.

[warriorcat]

I guess I spoke too soon on UMass Dartmouth, which lost to UMass Boston last night.  UMD, Keene (also a loser last night) and Eastern Conn all now have eight losses -- and there is no way any of those squads will get a Pool C bid with 9 losses.  So the only realistic Pool C candidates from New England are the five regionally-ranked NESCAC squads, Babson (which of course is a lock no matter what) if they lose in NEWMAC tourney, and possibly MIT, although I think MIT, despite a good record, would have a really tough time without a single win vs. a regionally-ranked opponent and certainly doesn't warrant inclusion over Amherst or Williams. 


There appear to be two "absolutes " that posters have been using as reasons why teams will not get Pool C bids, low SOS (< .500) and Win % < .700 .  After considering the potential AQ's and then running the SOS and W-L records of the ranked teams I am not sure there will be enough Pool C candidates who will be able to fill out the field.  Of course there will be bid stealers who win the AQ and bump qualified teams into Pool C.  Because of parity/inconsistency throughout the country I would not be surprised to see a few teams who have less than high quality resumes make the field.  One other small piece is that there are two more additional Pool C bids this year because of the Tournament expansion to 64 teams

On a related note, as I look at the teams in a mock selection the loser of the Amherst/ Williams game will be a team with a resume much better than the teams on the board but posters from outside the region can not seem to believe that five teams from one conference deserve to get in. 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I guess I spoke too soon on UMass Dartmouth, which lost to UMass Boston last night.  UMD, Keene (also a loser last night) and Eastern Conn all now have eight losses -- and there is no way any of those squads will get a Pool C bid with 9 losses.  So the only realistic Pool C candidates from New England are the five regionally-ranked NESCAC squads, Babson (which of course is a lock no matter what) if they lose in NEWMAC tourney, and possibly MIT, although I think MIT, despite a good record, would have a really tough time without a single win vs. a regionally-ranked opponent and certainly doesn't warrant inclusion over Amherst or Williams. 


There appear to be two "absolutes " that posters have been using as reasons why teams will not get Pool C bids, low SOS (< .500) and Win % < .700 .  After considering the potential AQ's and then running the SOS and W-L records of the ranked teams I am not sure there will be enough Pool C candidates who will be able to fill out the field.  Of course there will be bid stealers who win the AQ and bump qualified teams into Pool C.  Because of parity/inconsistency throughout the country I would not be surprised to see a few teams who have less than high quality resumes make the field.  One other small piece is that there are two more additional Pool C bids this year because of the Tournament expansion to 64 teams

On a related note, as I look at the teams in a mock selection the loser of the Amherst/ Williams game will be a team with a resume much better than the teams on the board but posters from outside the region can not seem to believe that five teams from one conference deserve to get in.

I don't think you are quite reading the information presented correctly.

First off, yes below .500 SOS is dangerous and until now the national committee states they have never brought in an at-large team with a below .500 SOS. I believe that is true, but I also thought we found one team that may have gotten in in the past. This is also in the day-in-age of SOS, we are not talking prior.

The WL% line of demarkation is .667. That doesn't mean teams above .667 should feel safe. Rochester last year didn't get in with a .567 (or something) SOS and a .681 WL%. There are a lot of other criteria and data to look at besides these two. If a team is at or below .667, consider it no chance. If they are from .667 to .700 they are on the wrong side of the conversation, but with a chance. If they are above .700 still nothing guarunteed.

And to your comment about "less tha high quality resume" teams making the field - if this comment includes teams who win AQs, absolutely this will happen. Welcome to the NCAA across all divisions and in all sports. That is how these tournaments are built.

If you are thinking this applies to at-large only selections, I would disagree with you 100%. The resumes make the case in the NCAA tournament and having done mock selections for a number of years (and gotten pretty good at it with our Hoopsville selection crew), I have never left a team out whose resume was not selected over a team with a sub-par resume.

And finally per your comment that "posters outside the region cannot seem to believe that five teams from one conference deserve to get in" I don't think you understand the argument. First off, we have seen the NESCAC get five teams in, but in a year where inflated SOS numbers allowed it to happen. What we have been told by the committee since then is they are aware that high SOS numbers don't tell the entire story and that they want more information for anyone whose SOS number is out of whack - even on the low end. We don't believe five teams from the NESCAC will get in because almost the entire argument is built on their SOS numbers. Sure, vRRO is part of it as well, but the committee is also aware that those numbers are also built on the fact that playing in the Northeast Region allows for teams to have larger vRRO numbers. The committee will dive into both of those criteria items to understand them better.

That is the reason the Northeast was knocked down to 12 regionally ranked teams this year (as low as it can go per NCAA rules due to the number of teams in the region). The NESCAC also has the ability to schedule FAR more games against teams who are more likely to be regionally ranked than nearly any other conference in the country giving that number an inflated value. The committee will dive into it to see what it really means.

Same goes for the SOS numbers in the NESCAC.

What the argument from others, like myself, are trying to make... the NESCAC may have a number of teams who resumes have some lofty numbers, but that is not going to guaruntee a spot in the NCAA tournament. Could it happen? Sure. Will it happen? My argument is no. And I think that argument is solidified by this week's rankings which saw Amherst (predictably) fall to fifth and Williams fall to 7th. Mass-Dartmouth being 6th indicates to me the bubble line in the Northeast is around 5th or 6th if we were to select teams right now.

There are two more rankings: next week and the final ones (we won't see until the brackets are released first). A lot can change. If you are a NESCAC fan, you need to see teams like Williams or Amherst (since it can't be both) make a run. That will certainly assure four teams in... five feels like a real stretch even if Trinity were to win the AQ and I just don't see that happening the way they have been playing.

[dman]

here's my non-scientific "eye-test" for qualifying for ncaa's.  Wesleyan beats Marietta; Williams beats Hope;  Williams and Wesleyan split;  Amherst beats Babson; sweeps Williams and is swept by Wesleyan.  It shouldn't matter who loses on Saturday.  Both Amherst and Williams deserve bids....

[Bucket]

here's my non-scientific "eye-test" for qualifying for ncaa's.  Wesleyan beats Marietta; Williams beats Hope;  Williams and Wesleyan split;  Amherst beats Babson; sweeps Williams and is swept by Wesleyan.  It shouldn't matter who loses on Saturday.  Both Amherst and Williams deserve bids....

Further, Middlebury beats Wesleyan and Amherst, Williams beats Middlebury.

I'd like to see both Amherst and Williams join Midd, Tufts, and Wes in the tournament, as well.

[Cards Fan]

here's my non-scientific "eye-test" for qualifying for ncaa's.  Wesleyan beats Marietta; Williams beats Hope;  Williams and Wesleyan split;  Amherst beats Babson; sweeps Williams and is swept by Wesleyan.  It shouldn't matter who loses on Saturday.  Both Amherst and Williams deserve bids....

Williams only has 2 1/2 quality wins that I can see. (Counting Hope as a half).

[nescac1]

Ummm, Cards fan -- that is kind of nuts.  Williams has beaten three top-25 teams: Midd (10), Hope (16) and Wesleyan (24).  Those are certainly all quality wins.  In addition, the Ephs have beaten Eastern Conn on a neutral court, Bates on the road, Oneonta State at home -- those three are quality wins as well, as all have been regionally ranked within the past two weeks (Eastern Conn still is, and Oneonta may well return to the regional rankings).  If "quality wins" are ONLY wins over top 25 teams (which is far too narrow a definition) than Wesleyan only has three as well -- two over Amherst, one over Marietta.  But I would say that Wesleyan's wins over Williams, at Bates, and vs. Trinity are all quality wins as well -- in other words, both Wesleyan and Williams have six quality wins.  Wesleyan's schedule, outside of Marietta and NESCAC games (including non-league games) was extremely weak.  Williams played and beat a few very solid non-conference opponents as well in Mount Union, Springfield and Union, all on the road.  Those three teams, especially on the road, are far from pushovers.