MBB: NESCAC

[NEhoops]

nescac1 - great stuff as always. A lot can change between now and Nov. 1, but here is a look at some of the other NESCAC teams moving forward.

TRI: Gendron and Arthur will lead the charge for the Bantams next year. Oqundeko will be hard to replace, but no matter who they roll out there, they'll be a tough out no matter what.

HAM: This team returns a ton and will be making a push to get to the top half of the league. Didn't see them play a lot, but things are trending in the right direction.

CON: The Camels started off strong, but seemed to fade at the end of the season. They will be returning a strong core, and maybe another year of experience can take them to the next level.

COL: The Mules were very young last year, but grew up fast. They still might be a year away, but are going to dangerous.

BAT: The duo of Spellman and Gilpin will play at a high level, but their success will be depend on how quickly the bigs are able to develop.

[jayhawk]

I know Joe Schneider of Amherst got a lot of press in high school particularly because of New England Recruiting Report but CJ Bachman who is 6'7" and in the same Amherst class played at a high school with a long basketball history in a tough Catholic league conference on Long Island and was first team all state in NY -he may be important as well next year

[P'bearfan]

2017 was an incredibly strong year for NESCAC, and for New England as a whole, culminating in Babson's national title and deep tourney runs by Williams, Middlebury, Tufts, Endicott, and Keene.  A quick look at who the top New England teams graduate shows a dramatically different landscape for next year:

2. Middlebury: the Panthers will have a lot of new faces on the perimeter after graduating St. Amour, Brown and Jones.  St. Amour in particular was such a huge weapon down the stretch and is impossible to replace, and Brown was massive for Midd down the stretch.  Jack Daly should finally get the regional and perhaps national recognization he deserves running the show next year, and Midd has a strong group of big men returning, but for Midd to be a top-10 team again, its incoming frosh guards will have to grow up really fast.  The big question is, who will score from the perimeter on this team to keep defenses honest?  Folger is the only returning guy who was a significant three point threat, so one or two frosh or rising sophomores (DeLorenzo?  Leighton?) will need to step up as wing shooters.  None of them, however, will be St. Amour.  Next year is where the transfer of Baines, who could have been a go-to guy at the 3, will really sting. 

Bowdoin -- Bowdoin brings back nearly all of its offensive production from a team that looked very good at times last year, but struggled to raise its level consistently.  The Bears do lose some of their size up front however.  Bowdoin could be ready for a breakthrough next year led by Simonds, but my guess is that the Bears are more likely two years away. 

NESCAC1, as always you are something else in your knowledge and analysis. Not sure how you manage to do it.

Only things to add: for Middlebury, they presumably bring back Hilal Dahleh who was out this year with injury. He is a 6'3" guard who has many similarities to Jack Daly. He is not a great shooter (27.5% from 3 as a freshman), but he should still be a great help on the perimeter for the Panthers. Will we see the Panthers go big at times and slide Folger to small forward?

As for Bowdoin, they were 3-7 in the NESCAC. Their biggest win of the year was definitely beating Williams! In their seven losses. three were by five points or less and the other four were clear blowouts. Their finishing five going forward (which could easily differ from the starting five) would for me be Tim Ahn, Jack Bors, Jack Simonds, David Reynolds, and Hugh O'Neil. That will be four juniors and one sophomore. Seniors Blake Gordon and Liam Farley will be big cogs as well and could easily find themselves in the game during crunch time as well.

Hosting a NESCAC home game is probably the Polar Bears ceiling for next year. It is hard to see them overtaking any of Williams, Middlebury, or Wesleyan

PolarBear16 - have to agree with your overall assessment.  Next year's Bowdoin squad will be somewhat young but has a great deal of talent and upside.  From what I understand a couple of the incoming FY's could have an impact as well.  It will be fun to watch!

[nescac1]

NEhoops, thanks.  I would have included Hamilton except that they are not technically a New England team, but I agree that their prognosis is looking VERY good for the next two years.  I'd be surprised if they did not make at least one NCAA appearance in that stretch.  They have a really strong group of frosh and sophomores led by Hoffmann, Gilmour, Grassey, and Groll, and seem to have two more really promising big, athletic wings coming in next year.  They seem to be loaded on the perimeter but are one more really good big man away from being a threat to be a deep tourney type team I'd say. 

[NEhoops]

I think something that hurts Hamilton is that the only New England teams that they play are from the NESCAC. This past season they had the worst SOS in the league. I know that the travel is brutal, but the Northeast is a really strong region. If they can get into a tip-off or holiday tournament against a NEWMAC or LEC team that could make a difference.

[Old Guy]

nescac1 - great stuff as always. A lot can change between now and Nov. 1, but here is a look at some of the other NESCAC teams moving forward. 

COL: The Mules were very young last year, but grew up fast. They still might be a year away, but are going to dangerous.

BAT: The duo of Spellman and Gilpin will play at a high level, but their success will be depend on how quickly the bigs are able to develop.

The "big" at Bates who will most likely "develop" for them into an important player is Nick Lynch, brother of Peter '13 who was a terrific (if slightly undersized at 6'5"-6'6")) post player at Middlebury (then played in Ireland). Midd ran their offense through Peter who had excellent inside moves for scores and also passed effectively out of double-teams. Nick was out this year with an injury (but unfortunately played enough early not to retain his eligibility for this lost year). Nick has grown in college to 6'7" and if he has Peter's drive and court savvy could be a real handful underneath. it'll be fun to watch him compete for the Bobcats.

The Mules were at the bottom of the league this year but certainly gave Midd a tussle at Colby. Stewart was outstanding - and he'll be gone, but the rest of the squad played fast, and hard, and confidently. Those players will have a year under their belts and Colby could sneak up on some people.

[nescac1]

Old Guy, Nick Lynch only played three games.  Greenman played four in 2015-16 and was able to retain an entire year of eligibility after getting injured, so I would assume that if he wanted to, Lynch could reclassify next year.  But that would mean skipping an entire year of school, assuming he wanted to spend his final year of eligibility at Bates rather than at, say, a school that offers a graduate degree. 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Old Guy, Nick Lynch only played three games.  Greenman played four in 2015-16 and was able to retain an entire year of eligibility after getting injured, so I would assume that if he wanted to, Lynch could reclassify next year.  But that would mean skipping an entire year of school, assuming he wanted to spend his final year of eligibility at Bates rather than at, say, a school that offers a graduate degree.

Does the graduate transfer rule apply to d3?  I honestly don't know that one.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Old Guy, Nick Lynch only played three games.  Greenman played four in 2015-16 and was able to retain an entire year of eligibility after getting injured, so I would assume that if he wanted to, Lynch could reclassify next year.  But that would mean skipping an entire year of school, assuming he wanted to spend his final year of eligibility at Bates rather than at, say, a school that offers a graduate degree.

Does the graduate transfer rule apply to d3?  I honestly don't know that one.

Just shot down at the last NCAA Convention. Need to double-check the details. However, I believe graduate transfers are basically not allowed. I could have that screwed up, though.

[nescac1]

Oh, my bad then.  At least in the past, D1 athletes, if they have another year of eligiblity but have graduated, can immediately play at another institution as a graduate student.  I assumed the same would hold true for D3.  Steve Hauschka did it in football after graduating from Middlebury, right? 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

The Hauschka example is the other direction... D3 -> D1. That isn't the same in D3. The rule they were trying to pass would basically allow D3 students to transfer to another D3 school for graduate school and immediately play. That was shot down. Long story, but people in the division actually thought this would start something that would allow programs to suddenly compete for titles by poaching graduate talent - completely overblown I feel in Division III.

[Bucket]

Oh, my bad then.  At least in the past, D1 athletes, if they have another year of eligiblity but have graduated, can immediately play at another institution as a graduate student.  I assumed the same would hold true for D3.  Steve Hauschka did it in football after graduating from Middlebury, right?

Yes, Hauschka played immediately at NC State as a grad student after graduating from Midd. He had a year of eligibility left because he only played 3 years of football for the Panthers.

[nescac1]

Interesting.  One issue unique to D3: it would certainly give a huge advantage to schools who have grad programs vs. those who don't, which isn't an issue in D1 where just about every school, essentially, offers graduate degrees.  In NESCAC, for example, Wesleyan and Tufts would certainly have an advantage over their peers, none of whom have any substantial graduate programs. 

[ronk]

The Hauschka example is the other direction... D3 -> D1. That isn't the same in D3. The rule they were trying to pass would basically allow D3 students to transfer to another D3 school for graduate school and immediately play. That was shot down. Long story, but people in the division actually thought this would start something that would allow programs to suddenly compete for titles by poaching graduate talent - completely overblown I feel in Division III.

A pejorative description of the activity; don't see the intrinsic difference between this and poaching undergraduate talent.

So, there are 3 cases to be considered for a graduate with eligibility remaining:
D3 to D3, D1 to D3, and D3 to D1.
Please advise on the legality of each; I'm particularly interested in the 1st 2 cases where the player goes to D3.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

A D3 SA with a year remaining looking to do graduate studies can only play in D3 if they stay at the current school. Should they want to transfer and go to another D3 school, they aren't allowed to participate in sports.

If they transfer to another division, they are welcome to play.

The bill was in front of DIII this last January and it was shot down rather overwhelmingly.

Per recruiting rules, DIII coaches are not allowed to talk to SAs if they are at a school and playing. The student has to release him/herself from said school and present that release to other coaches to then allow those coaches to talk to them.

The worry about graduates is that DIII coaches would target seniors with eligibility left and try and bolster their teams with one-year students and possibly steal those students away from other schools... while bolstering their chances.

The percentage of DIII SAs who then become graduate students who play another year apparently is VERY low, but I don't have the numbers on me. I can ask around for the particulars for what was debated. I know it was expected to be voted down, but I believe it was voted down by a bigger margin than anticipated. Too many people, I feel, are paranoid.