MBB: NESCAC

[Vandy74]

Big week: first NESCAC weekend. All the projecting and postulating is moot. Just ten games. One game each against your ten NESCAC rivals. Intense.

Fun game tomorrow night at Middlebury with Swarthmore coming to town, two top 20 teams who I strongly suspect have never played one another before — both teams team with just one tight loss against the same opponent, York of PA. School's not in session; otherwise, I think there might have been a big crowd. As it is, lots of townsfolk will turn out. Strange start-time: 6:00 pm (not a doubleheader either). I worry many people will arrive in the second half, anticipating a normal 7:00 tip-off.  Personal dimension: the grandson of one of my hoop teammates and good high school friend in Maine is a first year at Swarthmore and hit 9 threes in his debut in the Garnet's opener this year, 6'3" Conor Harkins. Nine! Must be a school record. We better pick him up. They look like a team with nice balance.

I'm thinking that the enthusiasm for Wesleyan so far may be a bit inflated. Their win over Williams is certainly a good one, perhaps too the 80-61 win vs Nichols (8-1 with a win over Trinity).  Take away Williams and Nichols, Wesleyan's other eight games have been against teams that are collectively 34-52. Others might be better than I at evaluating the strength of Nichols schedule to date. Wes's one loss is to Springfield (6-5) and they're a good club, but had lost to Trinity (by 18), Williams (17) and Amherst (4) before defeating the Cards.With revenge-minded Williams on Friday and Midd on Saturday, we'll know soon enough how accurate their position as the speculative favorite for the NESCAC tourney top spot is.

Let the game's begin!

So basically you're taking away their "good wins" so you can discount Wesleyan?

It's tragic how totally you've missed the point.

[Cards Fan]

Big week: first NESCAC weekend. All the projecting and postulating is moot. Just ten games. One game each against your ten NESCAC rivals. Intense.

Fun game tomorrow night at Middlebury with Swarthmore coming to town, two top 20 teams who I strongly suspect have never played one another before — both teams team with just one tight loss against the same opponent, York of PA. School's not in session; otherwise, I think there might have been a big crowd. As it is, lots of townsfolk will turn out. Strange start-time: 6:00 pm (not a doubleheader either). I worry many people will arrive in the second half, anticipating a normal 7:00 tip-off.  Personal dimension: the grandson of one of my hoop teammates and good high school friend in Maine is a first year at Swarthmore and hit 9 threes in his debut in the Garnet's opener this year, 6'3" Conor Harkins. Nine! Must be a school record. We better pick him up. They look like a team with nice balance.

I'm thinking that the enthusiasm for Wesleyan so far may be a bit inflated. Their win over Williams is certainly a good one, perhaps too the 80-61 win vs Nichols (8-1 with a win over Trinity).  Take away Williams and Nichols, Wesleyan's other eight games have been against teams that are collectively 34-52. Others might be better than I at evaluating the strength of Nichols schedule to date. Wes's one loss is to Springfield (6-5) and they're a good club, but had lost to Trinity (by 18), Williams (17) and Amherst (4) before defeating the Cards.With revenge-minded Williams on Friday and Midd on Saturday, we'll know soon enough how accurate their position as the speculative favorite for the NESCAC tourney top spot is.

Let the game's begin!

Just the same as if you take away York and Wentworth Middlebury's opponents are 24-32?

You can't take away teams good wins to justify your reasoning on why you don't believe they are good. Also, not sure who is speculating Wes at the top spot. I most certainly am not, as I have believed since the preseason they would take a back seat to Middlebury and Tufts, and I stand by that. Tufts will get it together come NESCAC play.

[nescac1]

First semester all-NESCAC, in my view:

First team: Jack Daly (POY), Vincent Pace, Matt Folger, Jordan Bonner, Kena Gilmour (all seem like no brainers)

Second team: James Heskett, Eric Savage, Jeff Spellman, David Labossier, Kevin O'Brien

Other guys to keep an eye on: Jeremy Arthur, Michael Grassey, Peter Hoffmann, Bobby Casey, Matt Karpowicz, Nathan Krill, Michael Riopel, David Reynolds, Dean Weiner, Johnny McCarthy (not based on play to date, as he continues to struggle with his shot, but on talent and the fact that he is very likely to pick it up in league play), Jack Simonds (ditto).

Bound to change significantly in league play, but if the top five stay healthy all of them are very good bets to be no worse than second-team all-league. 

If Heskett keeps playing the way he has since Kyle Scadlock's injury, he is a first teamer (21 ppg, 50/60/80 shooting, 3 boards, 2 assists, 1 spg, .5 bpg, in five games), he's embraced his new role as first option and then some -- this for a guy who was basically the fifth or sixth option on offense last year.  But every team is going to put a bullseye on his back from here on out, so it will only grow more challenging.  Should be fun to watch him go up against (I would expect) DPOY candidate Jordan Bonner on Friday. 

[amh63]

Thanks all for filling in my "gap" wrt the Springfield vs Wesleyan game. 
Did look at the stats and a writeup of the game and have some comments and a question. 
First, Amherst lost to Springfield last season at Springfield...when J. Ross had a coming out party.  Amherst won in LeFrak this year and held Mr Ross down a little.  In the wins by Williams and others, was it at home or an away game.  Being at home helps in shooting from afar for the home team and can be difficult for the visiting team....Amherst shot terrible from outside in Fl. 
I noted that All-American candidate J. Ross played much better against Wes at home than in LeFrak...made MVP for the Tourney. I also noted that he was charged with the only Technical foul in the game.  What was that about?
Focused on the Amherst game tonight....not even aware of any weekend games. 
Yes, the Midd matchup with Swarthmore at 6 PM will be a missed opportunity foe me.  My dinners are adjusted around my on- line BB watching.  Bless my understanding wife!
Still cannot get over the fact that Swarthmore has a highly rated MBB team.  Remember when the school dropped football.  Many loose Amherst connections to the school...a classmate/Frat brother teaching there, my hippie younger brother turning down the school to go West..etc..

[nescac1]

Regarding Wesleyan, they have two of the three, arguably the best two, wins of the year for any NESCAC team: at (a fully healthy) Williams and the blow-out win over Nichols.  The NESCAC schedule is about to pick up significantly with three tough out-of-league games beteween tonight and tomorrow and then the start of league play.  But going down the list, honestly, it's hard to be overwhelmed by many of the victories across the board.

Amherst: best win, I don't know, Springfield?
Bates: solid wins over Colby and Babson, but Babson is REALLY struggling right now (lost three of the last four, with the only win the very fortunate one-point win over Amherst)
Bowdoin: wins over Bates and Babson
Colby: Bowdoin and Endicott
Conn: no one of consequence
Hamilton: Moravian and Utica
Middlebury: Skidmore and Endicott
Trinity: Bates and Springfield
Tufts: WPI and Claremont
Wesleyan: Nichols and Williams
Wiliams: Salem State, Stevens, Springfield

Some solid wins, but not much to really write home about, outside of Wesleyan, honestly.  The only win over a top-25 caliber team OTHER than Wesleyan is Midd's win at Skidmore, and Skidmore will probably barely hang on to its ranking after losing to Guilford.  Tonight, of course, is a chance for NESCAC to pick up two more big wins vs. solid competition.   But it's hard to evaluate where teams stand based on the play to date. 

Amherst is STILL the biggest mystery because it's hard to have any idea how to judge the loss to an NAIA team, and they've been very up-and-down otherwise.  A win tonight would be a huge positive sign for the Mammoths.  Amherst has some of the craziest statistics I've seen for a team (although it is early still and some of this is bound to level out).  Amherst leads the NATION in opponents' field goal percentage (although some of that is skewed by abominable shooting by Amherst's opponents in its three big blow-out wins) and is second nationally (behind only Middlebury) in rebounding margin. 

On the other hand, Amherst is towards the very bottom nationally, just about, in free throws attempted, free throws made, and free throw percentage, which is a major problem for the Jeffs.  The majority of their regulars -- including some ACE distance shooters -- are massively struggling at the line (Ripoel, 29 percent, J. McCarthy, 56 percent,  Mobley, 50 percent, Che, 20 percent, Schneider, 43 percent, Bachmann, 42 percent).  I'm not sure if guys aren't looking to get fouled because they are missing so much, or if guys aren't getting into any sort of rhythm because they are drawing so few fouls, but that is clearly Amherst's achilles heel right now, and it's a sign of a team that is relying too much on outside shooting.  Over the last four game, Amherst is averaging only EIGHT free throw attempts.  And fewer than 7 made free throws per game on the season is pretty insane for a team with Amherst's size and talent, and which has played a fairly weak schedule so far. 

[Old Guy]

Big week: first NESCAC weekend. All the projecting and postulating is moot. Just ten games. One game each against your ten NESCAC rivals. Intense.

Fun game tomorrow night at Middlebury with Swarthmore coming to town, two top 20 teams who I strongly suspect have never played one another before — both teams team with just one tight loss against the same opponent, York of PA. School's not in session; otherwise, I think there might have been a big crowd. As it is, lots of townsfolk will turn out. Strange start-time: 6:00 pm (not a doubleheader either). I worry many people will arrive in the second half, anticipating a normal 7:00 tip-off.  Personal dimension: the grandson of one of my hoop teammates and good high school friend in Maine is a first year at Swarthmore and hit 9 threes in his debut in the Garnet's opener this year, 6'3" Conor Harkins. Nine! Must be a school record. We better pick him up. They look like a team with nice balance.

I'm thinking that the enthusiasm for Wesleyan so far may be a bit inflated. Their win over Williams is certainly a good one, perhaps too the 80-61 win vs Nichols (8-1 with a win over Trinity).  Take away Williams and Nichols, Wesleyan's other eight games have been against teams that are collectively 34-52. Others might be better than I at evaluating the strength of Nichols schedule to date. Wes's one loss is to Springfield (6-5) and they're a good club, but had lost to Trinity (by 18), Williams (17) and Amherst (4) before defeating the Cards.With revenge-minded Williams on Friday and Midd on Saturday, we'll know soon enough how accurate their position as the speculative favorite for the NESCAC tourney top spot is.

Let the game's begin!

Just the same as if you take away York and Wentworth Middlebury's opponents are 24-32?

You can't take away teams good wins to justify your reasoning on why you don't believe they are good. Also, not sure who is speculating Wes at the top spot. I most certainly am not, as I have believed since the preseason they would take a back seat to Middlebury and Tufts, and I stand by that. Tufts will get it together come NESCAC play.

Actually, if you do the same calculation I did (for what little it may be worth as the matter will be soon settled on the court), you get this result: take away Midd's two best wins — Skidmore (6-2) and Wentworth (8-2) — and Middlebury's record is 30-29 (and nine of those 29 losses belong to one team, Clark's Summit). Also, for the record, I wasn't suggesting that Wesleyan is not "good"; clearly they are good. And D3HforLyfe in his excellent, detailed analysis on 12/29 has Wes in the "top spot." I agree with NESCAC1: "it's hard to evaluate where teams stand based on the play to date."

[amh63]

Not to be annoying here wrt early comparative games and your focus on Amherst Nescac 1....but even I can pick out early season games that show a school up and vice versa.  Trinity had the best game against Springfield to date....at Springfield too!  Then there is the Westfield State wins by Williams and Amherst...a 30 Plus blowout by Amherst vice a relative close win by Williams.
Amherst has a tough game tonight and a tough game on Friday against Trinity.  Trinity maybe  playing the best at this point in the season...imho.
Suggest we all take a poster's advance and focus on the Nescac battles ahead.  All early games are "warmups".

[amh63]

Forgot something. 
My hopes that all Nescac teams finish their season with NO more lost of players for the season...no more injuries period, hopefully. 
The road to the post season will now start this week. 

[nescac1]

Ummm, amh63, I am not sure what "comparative games" discussion, or discussion of "showing a school up" you are talking about; it certainly wasn't by me.  My point in listing the top wins for each team was to show that, in the aggregate, as a league, most of the NESCAC squads don't really have ANY signature wins, so (1) it's hard to have any sort of reliable sense of relative quality of NESCAC teams at this point and (2) Wesleyan, as the only team with two signature wins, has earned its plaudits.   If I had to rank the teams based on likely finish, in light of the first semester, I'd go something like Midd, Wesleyan, Williams, Hamilton, Tufts, Amherst, Trinity, Bowdoin, Colby, Bates, Conn.  But I'm not remotely confident in that.  Wesleyan and Williams could be too high, Amherst and Tufts too low, for starters.  A lot of teams are just really hard to figure out right now, and no one look unbeatable on any given night.  Indeed, other than Conn, which seems likely to struggle mightily, I think anyone from 1-10 could beat anyone else, especially if the underdog is at home, and I do think we will see a lot of surprising results. 

Regarding Westfield State, I really don't think you can take much from the margin of victory in a game in which Williams' star and likely all-American suffered a season-ending knee injury partway through the first half.  It's not a surprise that Williams struggled a bit to close that one out. 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Did watch the Amherst WBB team in Las Vegas and the announcers seem to dwell much to much on the "18 day break" by Amherst.....not aware of NESCAC academic needs, me thinks  

Uh... considering I was one of the announcers and the other two, including Pat Coleman, are very familiar with with the NESCAC academic set-up... we were fully aware of the situation. However, that doesn't mean the break wasn't something to talk about considering how slowly they came out against Santa Clara... nor the fact their coaching staff including GP Gromacki discussed his concern before and after the game about the long lay-off... and I am not exactly sure a long break is the norm. Some years, yes. We didn't dwell on it too much when it was clearly a factor in how Amherst played in Vegas.

[Pat Coleman]

Santa Cruz. 

And indeed, G.P. Gromacki told me in our D3hoops.com Classic on-camera interview that they tried to schedule another game after Dec. 9 and could not find an opponent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3Ubyh02-Z4

A pretty quick six-minute conversation.

[ronk]

Santa Cruz. 

And indeed, G.P. Gromacki told me in our D3hoops.com Classic on-camera interview that they tried to schedule another game after Dec. 9 and could not find an opponent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3Ubyh02-Z4

A pretty quick six-minute conversation.

I invited GP to consider the opening in Scranton's holiday tourney next season; haven't gotten a response yet.

[Pat Coleman]

Santa Cruz. 

And indeed, G.P. Gromacki told me in our D3hoops.com Classic on-camera interview that they tried to schedule another game after Dec. 9 and could not find an opponent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3Ubyh02-Z4

A pretty quick six-minute conversation.

I invited GP to consider the opening in Scranton's holiday tourney next season; haven't gotten a response yet.

In my experience, a lack of response doesn't mean he hasn't read it or wouldn't consider it. I think they like to travel further for the holidays but that doesn't mean he wouldn't think about it. Good luck!

[jumpshot]

Big win by Swarthmore 91-75 at over-ranked Middlebury on a night when Swat, a well-coached team, played with passion and intelligence. Mid hasn't come together yet, yet to be determined how good they will prove to be, especially on the road.

[JEFFFAN]

Not a very good night for the Jeffs, either.   Amherst shot great from all over the court and outrebounded ECU considerably ... but the turnover machine was brutal.   Not sure where their freshman point guard was but it might have really mattered tonight.