MBB: NESCAC

[Old Guy]

Were innocent individuals punished by the punishment of the team?

Sure. That's the essential dynamic of the team: the play or behavior of individuals affects the whole team. It would be interesting to this discussion to have more information (how many players, etc.). The coach may have wanted to send a message about team unity.

[amh63]

Frank U....your question is not that simple in a sport that is highly individualized, imho.  It also brings into the concept of " team" and drinkers of alcohol or not, etc., etc.  Too much conclusive type posts based on too little info.  The story mentioned the AD made the determination.  Good man who was a long time Amherst football assistant and has a son on the football team.  He has taken the correct first step.  Am sure the student athletes "involved" will benefit on an important life lesson.
Amherst in my day was always a 'parternal" place, especially wrt drinking on and off campus.  Heck, you were told to take a leave of absence if you did not meet Chapel attendance.
Last year, there was an major incident dealing with the men's cross country team and e-mails wrt the women's team members.  The team was shut down and the coach was removed based on the incident involving just a number of team members.  I will leave further judgement to Amherst on this matter.  Further steps, if appropriate will be taken as needed...to the benefit of the student.
Will bring up a story that came up on the football board this year.  It dealt with the Amherst vs
Williams football game that went into OT this season.  Amherst has a fine punishing big back whose
running is hard to stop.  In the game, the coaches had the QB attempt a throw when Amherst was at
the goal line in OT.  It failed and Amherst lost the game and CAC title.  I was yelling at a gathering for
a run by our big top back.  I found out later, that the big back was not available..an injury late in the
game.  A possible win and a title was less important than the health of the player is how I saw it.  It
has always been that way at Amherst for me....for almost six decades...choices made by the school
that will benefit the student in the future.  Plan to attend my last formal reunion this May...my
55th...with my Family.  Last formal reunion with my three kids, all solid Lord Jeff alums 

[Gabriel]

Noticed that Marist fired Mike Maker.  Probably should have stayed at Williams where recruiting is easier.

[nescac1]

Gabriel, folks here have commented on the Maker firing.  Very, very few coaches will turn down a D1 opportunity, even one which presents a lot of challenges.  Hard to blame Maker for giving it a go.  And if he wants to return to D3 head coaching, a slew of strong programs will be vying for his services, I'm sure. 

Thanks for the kind words, Old Guy, appreciate.  Good luck to Middlebury (and to Hamilton) tomorrow!  With so many favorites already eliminated, this is as wide open a D3 tourney as I can recall and no team is safe - but also no team is out of contention for the walnut and bronze.

As for MIT, seems like Jomard, their top player, remained out last weekend.  Anyone know if he is back?  That will make a big difference, but of course even without him a team that can shoot from three as well as MIT is always dangerous.  Former H.S. teammates Forsythe and Folger may see some time matched up vs. one another, which could be fun ...

[magicman]

I guess I just didn't see drinking a few beers after a competition as a big deal considering basically everyone in college does it, but if the NCAA sees it differently, so be it ...

While on a team bus? Big no-no. On your own on your own time. So be it (as long as it is legal), but absolutely not on a team bus. I need to find where it happened, but one team in another sport got punished pretty harshly by the NCAA for doing the same returning from an NCAA championship weekend or something.

Also before anyone says it is an NCAA rule or something, most schools I know have the same rule/code of conduct with their teams on their buses. They represent the college. If they were to climb off a bus at a stop or something smelling of alcohol, how do you think that represents the college? Those rules are at most schools I know.

Do it on your time, not the time of the school (which includes to and from competition on a bus the school is paying for).

Dave,
Not sure if this what you had in mind but the Plattsburgh State Women's Hockey team was punished by the NCAA last year for drinking on the bus after they won the NCAA championship last year. Here's the news article on that incident.

http://www.pressrepublican.com/news/drinking-on-bus-earns-psu-reprimand-penalty/article_4600c0a2-c561-11e7-8a0e-a3344f0bea2a.html

[Gabriel]

Nescac 1,

Sorry, I missed the earlier postings on Mike Maker.  Although I am a New Englander, I don't usually follow this board as closely as the Mid Atlantic Centennial Conference.  I met Coach Maker at breakfast after he coached his second game as the Williams HC.  Must say, he impressed the Ursinus fans.  I agree that he will find a new home rather quickly.  The Gettysburg job comes to mind although as a selfish Ursinus fan, I would rather see him go a little further away.

[Conts Fan]

Oh wow...can't believe Hamilton lost that

[magicman]

Here you go Old Guy sorry I'm so late.

NCAA Sectional  Sweet 16

Plattsburgh State at Swarthmore     7:30 PM


This is a tough game to call and it just may come down to home court advantage. Both teams had been successful because they have outrebounded the opposition by a wide margin. Swarthmore is 5th in the country in rebound differential and Plattsburgh is 13th. Both teams have a trio of very good offensive rebounders.

Swarthmore comes at you with 3 big men and 6'7" sophomore forward, Zac O'Dell, with a total of of 236 rebounds (8.1 rpg), 93 of them on the offensive end, leads the way. He also averages 10.5 ppg. Robbie Walsh, a 6'8" senior forward, has a total of 179 rebounds (6.2 rpg) of which 48 are offensive rebounds. He averages 8.5 ppg. Sophomore Nate Shafer is a 6'6" forward, who comes off the bench and has grabbed 47 offensive rebounds among his total 162 boards (6.2 rpg). He is scoring 9.7 ppg.

The Garnet have a pair of excellent guards who lead them in scoring.  Cam Wiley, a 6'0" junior guard, is an All American candidate again, after receiving 3rd team honors last season, from the NABC. He's having another outstanding year, as he is averaging 16.5 ppg, 4.6 rpg, and almost 4 assists per game. He is quick, can penetrate, dish or finish, and also hurt you from downtown. He will be a handful to keep in check. 6'2" senior Zack Yonda, another starting guard, is the 2nd leading scorer on the team, averaging 13.6 ppg and 3.5 rpg. He can also shoot the 3ball, making 2 per game at a 41% clip. The other starting player is 6'0" freshman guard, Ryan Ingram. He averages 6.1 ppg, 2.8 rpg and has made 34 three pointers.   

Also off the bench has freshman guard, Conor Harkins, a 6'3" long distance specialist who leads the team with 73 three pointers. He has a total of 84 field goals so when he shoots it is almost always from behind the arc. The Garnet have two other guards that come off the bench that are part of their 9 man rotation.

Swarthmore will run a lot of plays near the top of the lane looking to set screens for their shooters and crash the offensive boards. They are well coached and will look to get the ball to their big men early and often.

Plattsburgh State will counter with a triumvirate of their own excellent rebounders. The Cardinals are led by All American candidate and SUNYAC Player of the Year, 6'2" junior forward Jon Patron. Jon led the SUNYAC in scoring with 24.3 ppg and also was the leading rebounder with 10.6 rpg. He is shooting 56% from the field, 75% from the line and 35 %from behind the arc. When he gets the ball inside he is nearly unstoppable and has faced bigger men and double teams in every game he's played. He has yet to taste defeat this year as the Cardinals are 20-0 in the games he's played.  He has 212 rebounds and 71 of them are on the offensive end. Ian Howard is a 6'3" junior forward, who like Patron plays much bigger. Plattsburgh's coach has called Ian, the best offensive rebounder he's ever coached.  Howard has amassed 217 rebounds this season and 96 of them are of the offensive variety.  He averages 7.8 rpg and 4.8 ppg.  Eric Mack is a 6'3" senior guard, who has a leaping ability not usually seen in Division III. Coming off the bench and playing from the guard position, he has managed to accumulate 155 rebounds, with 49 of those off the offensive glass. Mack averages 5.5 rpg, 10.9 ppg and was the leading shot blocker in the SUNYAC conference. He has been credited with 61 blocks but in one game on the road he was credited with 0 blocks when he had at least 6 in that game.

One stat worth noting as I looked at the numbers regarding the rebounding battle, is that the Plattsburgh trio has 584 rebounds between them, of which 216 are offensive boards. This was done with the 3 players playing a total of 1703 minutes between them.

The Swarthmore threesome has 577 rebounds with 188 of them offensive ones. They did this with the 3 players on the court for a total of 1955 minutes.

Plattsburgh also has a long bench that will go 10 deep. Starters  senior guard Zack Coleman is a 6'2" defensive specialist that will probably have the assignment on Swarthmore's Wiley. Zack will run the point on offense and can score when asked to do so. He averages 4.4 ppg, 2 assists per game and 1.8rpg. 8Chris Middleton, is a 6'7" junior guard who averages 8.2 ppg and 5.6 rpg. Middleton also crashes the offensive boards and has a total of 51 on that end. Nick DeAngelis is a 6'4" sophomore guard that can shoot the three pointer and go to the hoop with authority. His 48 made 3's are 2nd most on the team.

The main threat coming off the bench is the scoring ability and quickness of 5'11" guard Eli Bryant. Normally a starter Bryant elected to come off the bench this year and has lit a fire under the team on numerous occasions. He was the 2nd leading scorer in the SUNYAC conference averaging 19.1 ppg in conference play and did that playing less minutes than a number of the other top 10 players. Overall Eli averaged 16 ppg, 3.3 assists per game and 2.9 rpg.  Brandon Johnson, a 5'10" junior guard, is another super quick guard who brings instant offense to the Cardinal offense. Able to get to the rim and also knock down the 3 pointer, Johnson has made 40 triples this year. He averages 8.9 ppg, 2.7 apg and 2.3 rpg.  6'7" sophomore, Adam Jaquish and 6'7" junior Isaiah Hill will both provide quality minutes to give the Cardinal forward a break.

Plattsburgh wil play an uptempo game and look to get the ball inside to Patron as much as possible. Patron is adept at finding the open man when they double team him and many times that will result in a wide open three point look. The Cardinals ability for 2nd chance points has been a big part of their success and going head to head with another team that has that same style will be interesting.

The oddsmakers have Swarthmore favored to win this game by a 5 point margin. However if the game were in Plattsburgh they had the Cardinals favored by a single point. The odds favored Hamilton by 5 points as well in the early game and we've just seen the conclusion to that one and watched Springfield pull off the 92-90 upset in overtime. Here's hoping my Cardinals can pull off another mild upset. I think we are just as good as Swarthmore and wouldn't consider it an upset though. Plattsburgh keeps their winning streak alive as they come away with a 86-83 win to advance and play Springfield tomorrow.

[Old Guy]

Midd drops a close one to MIT, 79-76, good game, exciting, two good teams playing well. Midd led by five for a while late but couldn't ever extend the lead. MIT played the last minute better than we did. A dozen people at my house watching on the big screen, a good time was had by all despite the outcome — we'll all very proud of this team and its resilience. My hope is that one of the Midd posters (Bucket?) who was there will provide some analysis. I'm not up to the task (missed portions of the game cooking the steamed dogs and getting the beer).

Now I'm watching the Plattsburgh-Swarthmore game. Thanks for the report. Magic-Man, very helpful. I think I've said this (probably more than once) on this board, but Swarthmore was the best team to play in our gym this year.

[WPI89]

2 high level NEWMAC v NESCAC games. Wow. I watched last 5 mins of each on train home. Modern technology!  Congrats to all involved.

[Conts Fan]

Hamilton was up 8 with 2 minutes to go, and then had free throws to make it it a four point game at five seconds and three seconds, but couldn't ice the game. Springfield ties it with a three at the end of regulation and wins in OT. Tough end to the season.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I guess I just didn't see drinking a few beers after a competition as a big deal considering basically everyone in college does it, but if the NCAA sees it differently, so be it ...

While on a team bus? Big no-no. On your own on your own time. So be it (as long as it is legal), but absolutely not on a team bus. I need to find where it happened, but one team in another sport got punished pretty harshly by the NCAA for doing the same returning from an NCAA championship weekend or something.

Also before anyone says it is an NCAA rule or something, most schools I know have the same rule/code of conduct with their teams on their buses. They represent the college. If they were to climb off a bus at a stop or something smelling of alcohol, how do you think that represents the college? Those rules are at most schools I know.

Do it on your time, not the time of the school (which includes to and from competition on a bus the school is paying for).

Dave,
Not sure if this what you had in mind but the Plattsburgh State Women's Hockey team was punished by the NCAA last year for drinking on the bus after they won the NCAA championship last year. Here's the news article on that incident.

http://www.pressrepublican.com/news/drinking-on-bus-earns-psu-reprimand-penalty/article_4600c0a2-c561-11e7-8a0e-a3344f0bea2a.html

That very well could have been the one I was thinking about... but sadly, another sport comes to mind so there may be another one. But those details sound the most familiar.

[ContinentalDomer]

Here's the Hamilton-Springfield game story.  It was a brutal way to go out, but this group has more than revived an outstanding tradition of basketball for the Continentals.

http://athletics.hamilton.edu/sports/mbkb/2017-18/releases/201803101uapoi

[JEFFFAN]

And then there were none ...

There has been much conversation about this being a down year for NESCAC men, but when was the last time the NESCAC had zero teams in the Final Eight?

[nescac1]

2012 was the last year no NESCAC teams made the Elite 8.  I think from 2010 through 2017 the NESCAC had at least one team in the Final Four every year save for 2012 and 2015 (when Trinity was the Elite 8 squad). 

How the tourney played out is not a huge surprise.  NESCAC had four teams that were all very good and very even this year, all clearly top-20 caliber teams, but no team that ever managed to be consistently great or ever really looked like a top-5 caliber team.  Three of the four NESCAC teams lost in toss-up games that went down to the wire.  I think any of the four NESCAC teams were capable for beating just about anyone in the tourney on any given day, but also losing to anyone in the tourney on any given day, and winning six in the row was just not going to happen in that scenario.  Hamilton losing to Springfield really surprises me, and especially tough to go out like that with a bunch of missed free throws down the stretch.  That's hoops, though. 

I watched some of the MIT-Midd game and I was very impressed by how well MIT is coached.  I loved the out-of-bounds pass along the baseline late in the game by MIT, I forgot that was even legal and I can't recall the last time I've seen that.  MIT was skinnier, smaller, and not as athletic as Midd, but they did a great job manufacturing open looks through brilliant ball movement, reminded me of 2014 Spurs-style basketball, and they can REALLY shoot the ball when they get a little bit of space.  If Jomard can find his game after so much time away (last night he just didn't have it, no surprise there) they will be tough to beat.  But, Ramapo's athleticism will pose a REAL problem for them.  Should be an interesting contrast because MIT shoots the heck out of the ball while Ramapo certainly does not, but Ramapo puts so much pressure on both ends with relentless quickness and strength.  To win that game MIT needs to make at least 40 percent of its 3's, maybe more.  Certainly doable for a team that shoots like that!

Looking way ahead to next year, Williams and Hamilton appear on paper to be the class of the league.  Both have tremendous junior and senior-dominated cores returning and Heskett and Gilmour are likely to be two of the best players in the country, while Hoffmann, Casey and Scadlock are returning all-league caliber guys.  Hamilton loses very little, Williams a bit more, but the Ephs do have the big x factor of Scadlock coming back.  And the Ephs seem to be bringing in some guys on the perimeter who can help out right away to fill in.  Both should start the season as top-10 teams.

Wesleyan should be strong yet again.  Hutcherson as a soph should be superstar and O'Brien and Bonner are both battle-tested seniors.  Wesleyan loses a lot up front and the x factor for the Cards will be how much their raw but very talented frosh big man James improves in the off-season.  He played few minutes down the stretch which surprised me.  He needs to be a major rim protector, rebounder, and interior finisher for Wesleyan to have another strong year.  Middlebury just keeps reloading and I have no reason to think next year's squad will be different despite the MASSIVE loss of Jack Daly.  Farrell and Folger look ready to step up as the next bit Middlebury stars and Midd's rising sophomore class should make a big leap forward.  Kornaker was jinxed by injuries this year but could be a break-out player if healthier. 

Amherst, once again, could go a variety of ways.  Riopel and McCarthy are as a duo an enormous loss on the wing.  But if Tim McCarthy comes back healthy to go along with Josh Cherry (who was stellar down the stretch) and Mobley, the Mammoths should be OK on the wing.  Grant Robinson should be much improved as a sophomore and Amherst looks loaded on the interior.  Schneider can be an all-league guy (or more) if he keeps improving at the rate he has been, no big in NESCAC outside maybe Karpowicz has more upside and it seemed to start to click for him late in the season.  Sellew is solid but I look for Fru Che to get more and more minutes at the 4, he is a beast.

Tufts looks like the team with the biggest drop off from this year to next.  The Jumbos are decimated by graduation and return zero seniors.  The Maine teams all look like they will be significantly improved but they have a long way to go to catch the top half of the league.  Still, they will be far more competitive and Bowdoin in particular could do some real damage.  Trinity will be very not-fun to play as always but also will still be lacking a go-to scorer especially with Gendron graduation.  Conn is Conn. 

Of course, all of this could change dramatically with unexpected transfers, departures, and with many recruits still to be announced!

Congrats to MIT and Springfield -- I don't think ANYONE had two NEWMAC teams in the Elite 8 this year.  As demonstrated by Babson's recent success and now this season's deep runs by two other squads, no one can sleep on NEWMAC anymore ...