MBB: NESCAC

[P'bearfan]

Bowdoin did their best impersonation of the LA Rams as they defeated UNE last night 114 - 94.  Bowdoin scored 69 points in the first half and then coasted to an easy victory.

Not sure how much stock to put into such an early season victory but it is heartening to know that the Polar Bears can score like this. 

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!!

[nescac1]

After a week of action, I'd revise my preseason NESCAC rankings as follows:

1. Williams - no change, clearly loaded with top-line veteran talent, and very deep in young talent ready to emerge over the course of the season. Will be interesting to see what they can do when the competition improves in December. 

2. Hamilton - no change - about as loaded as Williams in the top five, but the bench has more question marks.  Kena Gilmour's early-season per-minute stat line is unreal.  Of course, Hamilton's early schedule has been very weak. 

3. Middlebury - up a spot, looks like the Panthers will keep rolling, but yet to play a legitimate opponent

4. Amherst - up a few spots.  Westfield seems decent enough based on scores to date and Amherst rolled over them.  Amherst may not have a big-time star or a go-to player this year (Grant Robinson may emerge as such, but he's still only a sophomore), but the Mammoths seem to be 10-12 deep with good-to-very-good two-way players, and will be hard to contend with due to their balance, size and versatility.  I would not be remotely surprised to see Amherst at 12-1 or 13-0 and ranked in the top 10-15 headed into the meat of its schedule (the first 13 games are mostly a cakewalk if Jake Ross remains out with an injury, but the last 11 feature Williams x2, Wesleyan x2, Midd, Hamilton, Eastern Conn, Tufts, Bowdoin, a much different story)

5. Wesleyan - down a few spots.  Getting beaten so handily by Nichols is not a good sign but playing a very competitive game at home against Western New England may be an even worse sign.  They seem to really be missing Kevin O'Brien as there may not be a true distributor / primary ball-handler on the roster (which I think is a bigger problem than lack of scorers).  The last two games, the Cards have 16 assists against 35 turnovers - if those brutal numbers continue, it's going to be a long season.  Wesleyan does have plenty of athleticism and talent so should be able to figure some things out, but will need to do so quickly with Eastern Conn, Williams, Plattsburgh and Johnson & Wales all on tap before the winter break. 

6. Tufts - way up - to be 2-1 including an OT loss at MIT is very impressive, considering they are down their best player in Eric Savage and starting two frosh and three sophs.  I figured such a young team would struggle out of the gate, but clearly the offensive talent is there, although as you would expect from a very young team they are giving up a lot of points.  If Savage returns healthy and the all-frosh backcourt continues to develop over the course of the year, they could arrive ahead of schedule.  And the long-term future is very bright in Medford. 

7. Bowdoin - down two spots.  Seems like Bowdoin hasn't added any impact frosh this year, when they really could have used one.  I do like the top six guys but Simonds is off to a slow start and the depth is a question mark right now. 

8. Trinity - impressive start for a Bantams team without a single dynamic scorer but with a lot of depth, grit, hustle and defense.   In other words, not much is new here.

9. Colby - we'll see how they can compensate for the lack of size across the roster but they clearly can shoot the ball (47 percent from 3 on 33 attempts per game, which of course is not sustainable).  A good sign that their two leaders so far did not play for them last year, frosh Tyson and Ronan Schwarz, who missed all of last year with an injury.  A top-8 finish is certainly plausible this year. 

10. Bates - uggh, rough start.  They really need the two (presumably) injured starters back.  I still think there is decent talent here.

11. Conn College -- another long year ahead. The guard situation is for the second straight year abysmal.  Their starting backcourt is averaging a combined 9 ppg on 33/17/55 splits through three games, and there is nothing really to suggest that is a fluke.  If you have two guards who can't shoot / score it's tough to win at any level of basketball, even with a strong frontcourt like Conn does seem to have.  Frosh guard Matt Carlin is off to a strong start and may need to be moved into the starting lineup as one of the only two guys on the entire roster seemingly capable of making a three point shot with consistency. 

[P'bearfan]

After a week of action, I'd revise my preseason NESCAC rankings as follows:

1. Williams - no change, clearly loaded with top-line veteran talent, and very deep in young talent ready to emerge over the course of the season. Will be interesting to see what they can do when the competition improves in December. 

2. Hamilton - no change - about as loaded as Williams in the top five, but the bench has more question marks.  Kena Gilmour's early-season per-minute stat line is unreal.  Of course, Hamilton's early schedule has been very weak. 

3. Middlebury - up a spot, looks like the Panthers will keep rolling, but yet to play a legitimate opponent

4. Amherst - up a few spots.  Westfield seems decent enough based on scores to date and Amherst rolled over them.  Amherst may not have a big-time star or a go-to player this year (Grant Robinson may emerge as such, but he's still only a sophomore), but the Mammoths seem to be 10-12 deep with good-to-very-good two-way players, and will be hard to contend with due to their balance, size and versatility.  I would not be remotely surprised to see Amherst at 12-1 or 13-0 and ranked in the top 10-15 headed into the meat of its schedule (the first 13 games are mostly a cakewalk if Jake Ross remains out with an injury, but the last 11 feature Williams x2, Wesleyan x2, Midd, Hamilton, Eastern Conn, Tufts, Bowdoin, a much different story)

5. Wesleyan - down a few spots.  Getting beaten so handily by Nichols is not a good sign but playing a very competitive game at home against Western New England may be an even worse sign.  They seem to really be missing Kevin O'Brien as there may not be a true distributor / primary ball-handler on the roster (which I think is a bigger problem than lack of scorers).  The last two games, the Cards have 16 assists against 35 turnovers - if those brutal numbers continue, it's going to be a long season.  Wesleyan does have plenty of athleticism and talent so should be able to figure some things out, but will need to do so quickly with Eastern Conn, Williams, Plattsburgh and Johnson & Wales all on tap before the winter break. 

6. Tufts - way up - to be 2-1 including an OT loss at MIT is very impressive, considering they are down their best player in Eric Savage and starting two frosh and three sophs.  I figured such a young team would struggle out of the gate, but clearly the offensive talent is there, although as you would expect from a very young team they are giving up a lot of points.  If Savage returns healthy and the all-frosh backcourt continues to develop over the course of the year, they could arrive ahead of schedule.  And the long-term future is very bright in Medford. 

7. Bowdoin - down a spot.  Seems like Bowdoin hasn't added any impact frosh this year, when they really could have used one.  I do like the top six guys but Simonds is off to a slow start and the depth is a question mark right now. 

8. Trinity - impressive start for a Bantams team without a single dynamic scorer but with a lot of depth, grit, hustle and defense.   In other words, not much is new here.

9. Colby - we'll see how they can compensate for the lack of size across the roster but they clearly can shoot the ball (47 percent from 3 on 33 attempts per game, which of course is not sustainable).  A good sign that their two leaders so far did not play for them last year, frosh Tyson and Ronan Schwarz, who missed all of last year with an injury.  A top-8 finish is certainly plausible this year. 

10. Bates - uggh, rough start.  They really need the two (presumably) injured starters back.  I still think there is decent talent here.

11. Conn College -- another long year ahead. The guard situation is for the second straight year abysmal.  Their starting backcourt is averaging a combined 9 ppg on 33/17/55 splits through three games, and there is nothing really to suggest that is a fluke.  If you have two guards who can't shoot / score it's tough to win at any level of basketball, even with a strong frontcourt like Conn does seem to have.  Frosh guard Matt Carlin is off to a strong start and may need to be moved into the starting lineup as one of the only two guys on the entire roster seemingly capable of making a three point shot with consistency.

A fair assessment at this point in time.

[AmherstRules]

Our ladies streak ended, time to start a new one.

[nescacfaninbos]

Watched a few games over the weekend/early week. Tufts should have beaten MIT, played really well and were hurt by Foul trouble to Luke Rogers and Tyler Aronson who were both impressive when in there. Really liked their effort and think they are a squad to keep an eye on. Hamilton looked impressive in the game I watched against Centenary - there is a definite drop off after a very solid starting 5 but freshmen Nick Osarenren and Eric Anderson impressed with their good size and skills - I think they are two to watch going forward. 

[Mountain Man]

Triangle = 3   The third option that is FEARED, opens up the floor on weak side, gives more space to less confident role players

Let's look at Top NESCAC Teams - Offensively.
I omit Amherst because I need to watch them play this year.
I move Tufts ahead of Bowdoin & Wesleyan.

1. Williams:  Heskett, Scadlock, Casey.  Once Casey emerged last year, this team took off. Now add Karp in post this year
2. Hamilton: Gilmour, Hoffman, Groll (Post)
3. Middlebury: Folger, McCord (Post), Leighton or Dahleh
4. Tufts: Morris, Rogers (Post), Cohen or Aronson
5. Bowdoin: Reynolds, Simonds, Rucker

Top Defensively: Amherst, Wesleyan, Middlebury - These teams are very athletic defensively with speed which can make up for not being the elite offenses in the league that Williams & Hamilton are. We saw this last year in NESCAC tournament and the battle for regular season title and hosting of the championships needing tiebreakers.

POY = Gilmour because Williams trio will cancel each other out plus Gilmour is so gifted defensively = that will break any perceived tie.

[Mountain Man]

Repost to spell Hutcherson correctly = duh   My bad

Quote from: nescac1 on Today at 09:55:13 am
5. Wesleyan - down a few spots.  Getting beaten so handily by Nichols is not a good sign but playing a very competitive game at home against Western New England may be an even worse sign.  They seem to really be missing Kevin O'Brien as there may not be a true distributor / primary ball-handler on the roster (which I think is a bigger problem than lack of scorers). 


Did you forget about Austin Hutcherson. AH is a scoring point guard. He is creative with more point guard skills than O'Brien. O'Brien had elite defensive skills. AH will be played defensively to score rather than pass on this team until more threats established.

Not a lack of scoring but a "Third scorer" A third scoring "Threat". The third double figure guy.  I think it has to be Antone Walker.  His 2-9 against Nichols shows that he will shoot & get shots.

[ContinentalDomer]

In the end, match-ups and styles/execution tend to dictate results.  Williams' combination of size, skill and experience is terrific; what will their PG situation and depth look like at the end of the year?  The first group is so good, some of that may not matter much.  IMO, Hamilton's defense is better than some may think (can't just look at PPG in the up-tempo environment); the assessment of Ham's offense below seems to be missing some key components, particularly in terms of who opens space on the floor.  As to Midd, Farrell's play this year will be extremely important to their success, as the guard play will likely control outcomes in close, contested games against better teams.  As to Tufts, Aronson is really good; but if/when Savage returns will spell the key to their season.  As to Bowdoin, O'Neil's steadying presence in the post should not be overlooked.  IMO, Wesleyan is better than Bowdoin (despite loss to good Nichols team); head-to-head, the Cardinals have handled them the past couple of years - let's wait and see half a season and, more important, what league play brings. 

Triangle = 3   The third option that is FEARED, opens up the floor on weak side, gives more space to less confident role players

Let's look at Top NESCAC Teams - Offensively.
I omit Amherst because I need to watch them play this year.
I move Tufts ahead of Bowdoin & Wesleyan.

1. Williams:  Heskett, Scadlock, Casey.  Once Casey emerged last year, this team took off. Now add Karp in post this year
2. Hamilton: Gilmour, Hoffman, Groll (Post)
3. Middlebury: Folger, McCord (Post), Leighton or Dahleh
4. Tufts: Morris, Rogers (Post), Cohen or Aronson
5. Bowdoin: Reynolds, Simonds, Rucker

Top Defensively: Amherst, Wesleyan, Middlebury - These teams are very athletic defensively with speed which can make up for not being the elite offenses in the league that Williams & Hamilton are. We saw this last year in NESCAC tournament and the battle for regular season title and hosting of the championships needing tiebreakers.

POY = Gilmour because Williams trio will cancel each other out plus Gilmour is so gifted defensively = that will break any perceived tie.

[amh63]

Question to conference posters.....is there a limit on the number of players to be carried on the roster?  Active roster.
Been scanning websites and see that many schools have refreshed their general website "front page" /feature page.  Like the pages in general.  See that Bowdoin only features one of their school issued papers now....an example.  On the Bates' sports website, I was surprised by the number of players listed on the roster.  HC has been there awhile...10 years.  Aware of the roster limit in football.  Normally see about 15 players on a MBB roster.  Bates list 19 players...if I counted correctly.  Just asking.

[Vandy74]

Question to conference posters.....is there a limit on the number of players to be carried on the roster?  Active roster.
Been scanning websites and see that many schools have refreshed their general website "front page" /feature page.  Like the pages in general.  See that Bowdoin only features one of their school issued papers now....an example.  On the Bates' sports website, I was surprised by the number of players listed on the roster.  HC has been there awhile...10 years.  Aware of the roster limit in football.  Normally see about 15 players on a MBB roster.  Bates list 19 players...if I counted correctly.  Just asking.

amh63

The NCAA does not enforce a size limit on DI rosters, only a limit on the number of scholarships.  I've found no mention of DIII having a separate policy.   Like you I've seen rosters with more than 15 players listed but I've never seen a team have more than that number suited up to play.  If there is a player limit it seems to address game participation, not roster size. 

[Old Guy]

Question to conference posters.....is there a limit on the number of players to be carried on the roster?  Active roster.
Been scanning websites and see that many schools have refreshed their general website "front page" /feature page.  Like the pages in general.  See that Bowdoin only features one of their school issued papers now....an example.  On the Bates' sports website, I was surprised by the number of players listed on the roster.  HC has been there awhile...10 years.  Aware of the roster limit in football.  Normally see about 15 players on a MBB roster.  Bates list 19 players...if I counted correctly.  Just asking.

I don't think there's a roster limit. As I understand it, you can only play five at a time, though when I played, long ago, it sure seemed like the other side often had more than five, especially when they were in a full-court zone press.

[middhoops]

Teams in the CCIW tend to have somewhat larger rosters than ours. 
Illinois Wesleyan's roster lists 21 players and North Central lists 16 players with assigned numbers and 8 more on the roster with no jersey number. 
Hopefully Ypsi or Gregory Sager will see our discussion and explain the difference.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

The only limit I'm aware of is the travelling party limit for the NCAA Tournament - and that's more about what the NCAA will pay for than who you can actually bring.  Schools who pony up the difference can send more players if they choose, as far as I know.  There may be conference limits, but I'm not aware of any offhand.

CCIW schools often have JV squads, so they may bring guys along who aren't going to play for the experience.  You almost always see longer benches for home games for the same reason.

[AmherstRules]

Teams in the CCIW tend to have somewhat larger rosters than ours. 
Illinois Wesleyan's roster lists 21 players and North Central lists 16 players with assigned numbers and 8 more on the roster with no jersey number. 
Hopefully Ypsi or Gregory Sager will see our discussion and explain the difference.

They have a formal JV program there. 

[Pat Coleman]

And to add to what Ryan said, the schools might choose to bring more players for an NCAA Tournament game, but they can only suit up 15. I believe there may still be conferences which have roster limits for conference games, as well.