MBB: NESCAC

[toad22]

On Whitman: They really deserve a sectional game on their court. last year they lost at Platteville to Nebraska Wesylian on the road. I know the NCAA is cheap,but they face an unfair uphill battle!

I think everybody agrees.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

On Whitman: They really deserve a sectional game on their court. last year they lost at Platteville to Nebraska Wesylian on the road. I know the NCAA is cheap,but they face an unfair uphill battle!

Um... the "NCAA" isn't cheap. Division III (which decides how it spends it's own money allocated to them by the NCAA per the "constitutional" 3.18%) decides how it is going to spend it's money. It tells those at the NCAA how to make sure the budget isn't blown by championships.

We have talked about this often and I know you have read it because it has been in multiple chat threads. Furthermore, I talked about it on Hoopsville several times including a week ago Sunday (at the end) ... of the $32 million (roughly) that DIII had this year, 75% of it goes to ALL the championships in the sport. Basketball annually accounts for the top five expenditures - depending on the year and other factors. There is a LOT of money spent on the sport, but they can't throw money at it at will.

Whitman was given the chance to host the opening weekend of the tournament despite the fact it cost an extra "flight" in the bracket. It would have been "cheaper" to fly Whitman and the SCIAC team to Texas for a pod than it was to fly both Texas teams to Walla Walla along with the SCIAC team. To then expect the committee to be able to fly three more teams cross country in the second weekend - in what we already know with Division III budgets - is ridiculous. Yeah. Ridiculous.

"Deserve" and "practical" have got to be understood. Of course Whitman "deserved" to host, but the "NCAA" wasn't "cheap." In fact, the men's committee spent FAR more money on flights this year than they probably should have. It very well could come back to bite them next year when the "NCAA" tells them to cut down on the costs because they probably blew the budget this season (ticket sales at the tournament would help at least offset things a little bit is always the hope).

If this division wants to get more spending money, they either have to find some way to bring in money or convince the rest of the NCAA to change the percentage of the budget allocated to DIII from that 3.18% to 4% or something (a difference of about $10-$12 million per year). Otherwise, let's stop calling the "NCAA" cheap. This percentage has existed since the Divisions were created in the 1970s. It takes an entire NCAA-vote to get it changed.

I happened to have suggested a way to maybe get a higher percentage, but I was a little late in suggesting it and I don't think DIII had a future-thinking mentality about it: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2019/01/24/division-iii-has-leverage-in-important-ncaa-wide-vote/).

BTW - if men's basketball is granted permission to change things and spend more, that means it has to change for all sports. So any ideas that things should be "changed," better include how it will be paid for across all sports and their tournaments.

Another note, there will be a trial of a couple of seasons on a new concept that basketball has followed for some time: no conference foes in opening weekends. This will be a huge thing for football (i.e. Texas), but it will affect other sports as well. If successful, don't be surprised to see it move to "first weekend; first two rounds" in the future. However, this also adds costs to the mix and could easily be thwarted because of it.

So again ... let's not blame the "NCAA" because they don't determine how DIII spends it's money ... DIII decides that. And let's not pretend anyone is cheap, because the money allocated to DIII has been that way WELL before big TV contracts for D1 men's basketball. BTW - the rest of the NCAA has been kind to DIII when the division decided to raise it's dues from $900/school to about $2,000/school a few years ago. That increase should have been put into the same pool that all money in the NCAA goes and DIII get 3.18%. However, the rest of the divisions agreed that DIII should keep the increased dues to themselves. BTW, it accounts for a little over half-a-million dollars each year. Basically a drop in the bucket of what DIII really needs to hold "national" tournaments everyone seems to love so much - but no one can afford.

[nescacfaninbos]

If they can handle Whitman's press and get out on their threes, Williams should be able to dominate with what appears to be huge size differentials at each position....

"

Clearly the Williams' defeat Whitman is an epic win that was expected by few before the game...

Jumpshot , not patting myself on the back, but anyone who has seen Williams play this year could have anticipated how Williams could win that game

[Old Guy]

On Whitman: They really deserve a sectional game on their court. last year they lost at Platteville to Nebraska Wesylian on the road. I know the NCAA is cheap,but they face an unfair uphill battle!

So again ... let's not blame the "NCAA" because they don't determine how DIII spends it's money ... DIII decides that. And let's not pretend anyone is cheap, because the money allocated to DIII has been that way WELL before big TV contracts for D1 men's basketball. BTW - the rest of the NCAA has been kind to DIII when the division decided to raise it's dues from $900/school to about $2,000/school a few years ago. That increase should have been put into the same pool that all money in the NCAA goes and DIII get 3.18%. However, the rest of the divisions agreed that DIII should keep the increased dues to themselves. BTW, it accounts for a little over half-a-million dollars each year. Basically a drop in the bucket of what DIII really needs to hold "national" tournaments everyone seems to love so much - but no one can afford.

I appreciate the detailed response, Dave, though I don't have the background to understand any of it. I guess I just look at the "big TV contracts for D1 men's basketball" and assume the NCAA is rolling in dough, as are the schools who play in the tournament most years. I have been to the D1 Final Four twice in the last five years and know what I paid for my tickets (the actual cost not the face value). What's so hard about raising the D3 allowance from 3.18 to 4.0%? You'd think the D1 powerhouses might be sympathetic to their little brethren (and sistren). No need to explain further the economics of it all — wasted on me and I'm not complaining (though it is apparent to me the disadvantage Whitman faced).

Who're we rooting for in the Final Four? Probably Swarthmore for me, as they are a common opponent for Middlebury, and if they win it all I can say the Panthers were two point losers to the national champs (after being up by nine with seven minutes left, and up by five with two minutes left) — and therefore worthy.

[Old Guy]

If they can handle Whitman's press and get out on their threes, Williams should be able to dominate with what appears to be huge size differentials at each position....

"

Clearly the Williams' defeat Whitman is an epic win that was expected by few before the game...

Jumpshot , not patting myself on the back, but anyone who has seen Williams play this year could have anticipated how Williams could win that game

Not me. Saw Williams play in their loss to Midd — and watched the Panther guards race by the Williams big fellows, and thought Casey could really use some help in the backcourt. I realize the Middlebury loss was the Ephs low point, but still . . . . The Williams win over Whitman was a real surprise to me, and I guess all kinds of credit is due their coaches for their game plan and preparation.

[jumpshot]

As usual Old Guy is knowledgeable and more correct.  Enormous credit to Ephs players and coach. Perhaps what nescacfaninbos was pondering in his advance thinking was the "how to" in the abstract (which many of us recognized), not the reality of the degree of difficulty in actual execution.

[Pat Coleman]

What's so hard about raising the D3 allowance from 3.18 to 4.0%? You'd think the D1 powerhouses might be sympathetic to their little brethren (and sistren). No need to explain further the economics of it all — wasted on me and I'm not complaining (though it is apparent to me the disadvantage Whitman faced).

It literally involves changing the constitution and the Division I schools have to vote to give away money. By the way, you'll have to do the same for Division II, because while they have a larger percentage than Division III, it's not large by any stretch.

Changing the constitution in any near-1,000-member organization is a difficult prospect, even if you assume magnanimous intent. (Which I am fairly certain we can't assume.)

[jumpshot]

Since the off-season has arrived for NESCAC men's basketball fans, here are several suggestions for required summer reading (and venues) in the remote event you have not already read them at least once:

Hoop Nation: Chris Ballard, best spots in America for pick-up-basketball, and greats Connie Hawkins, Earl "The Goat" Manigault, etc.

The Back-in Your-Face Guide to Pick-Up Basketball: Weygus & Wolff

Heaven is a Playground: Rick Telander

My own personal outdoor favorites on which I played include: Rucker Playground at 155th Street in Harlem, Venice Beach in California, and many in the East Coast cities, such as in Washington, D.C's Chevy Chase Playground, Rose Park in Georgetown, Friendship Playground in Northwest., Boston (Cambridge north side of River). Also sites that no longer exist, such as American University's old gym, Southern Methodist University's women's gym, the YMCA in downtown Detroit, as well as in Buenos Aires, China, and numerous others.

Posters may have their own preferences -----enjoy reading and visiting!

[toad22]

In my earlier post I was agreeing that Whitman is disadvantaged compared to most other teams because they often don't get to host when they deserve to. NCAA revenues, I think, have been surging in recent years, so presumably D3 has benefited from this extra revenue. So, a possible "solution" to D3s money problems, is D1 MMB getting even more out of control and driven by larger and larger financial gain! Then, our 3.18% will get bigger and bigger! Or, we could beg for a bit higher %. Or both.

[Pat Coleman]

In my earlier post I was agreeing that Whitman is disadvantaged compared to most other teams because they often don't get to host when they deserve to. NCAA revenues, I think, have been surging in recent years, so presumably D3 has benefited from this extra revenue.

We have and that money has been spent in the championships area by fully fleshing out our 64 teams and the like, as well as allowing for larger rosters and travel squads for championship events. The TV contract doesn't surge again to larger amounts until 2025.

[JEFFFAN]

Watching "the Calhoun project" on ESPN - what is the over / under in number of years until St. Joseph is a final four contender and then wins a title??

[nescac1]

I think St. Joe's is in the NCAA tourney within two years, tops, and in the Final Four in 3-4 years.  They will be like Rowan in the 90s or Cabrini a few years back.   

[ContinentalDomer]

There's no question that the Ephs' height clearly bothered Whitman at the defensive end, too - particularly the Stewart kid.  But Williams opened up its lead with an onslaught of easy buckets - over the top and back door, topped off by some open outside looks.  Whitman did not defend the rim well at all, and appeared to frequently over-commit when jumping passing lanes, etc.  Hewitt fouling out and Stewart fouling 4 times also had a lot to do with Whitman putting itself in some tough spots defensively - chasing the ball and reaching.  As Whitman fell behind during the first 30 minutes, their kids were clearly rattled, too; they forced some shots that probably had as much to do with the mental piece - i.e., not used to coming from behind.  It took Whitman quite awhile to find any confidence.  Eventually, the Blues clawed back and began to wear down the Ephs by creating bunches of TOs (17 were in the 2nd half, and there were probably 10 in the last 5-6 minutes) and offensive boards (13 in 2nd half). 

ContinentalDomer:

Clearly the Williams' defeat Whitman is an epic win that was expected by few before the game, more for the high scoring and margin of victory over the season by Whitman than rankings. Your comment suggests you anticipated it, yet the win came about perhaps for different reasons than on which you focus, even seeing the game in person.

A primary root cause of the win was the Ephs' defense (contributing to poor Whitman shooting) holding Whitman to 10 of 30 threes, and only 30 total baskets in 77 attempts.

Yes, the Ephs were efficient in making 29 of 43 shots (67%) on 22 assists, ironically due in part due to the excellent preparation by the Eph players and coaches for breaking the Whitman press and influencing the pace of the game in spite of committing 29 turnovers and giving up 18 offensive rebounds.

Check out the post game interview for the Whitman coach's interpretation.

[D O.C.]

jumpshot....thanks for the playground review

Laguna Beach CA - Bill Walton's haunt when he could still move

[UWPSUPERFAN77]

To ALL:I know No easy solution! I just feel sorry for Whitman not getting a fair shake  The problem is money! we all agree!  God Bless you guys!