MBB: NESCAC

NEhoops · March 04, 2020, 01:20:25 PM

I think the coaches (clearly) valued Rogers over Savage, thus leaving him with less votes and a place on the 2nd team. Rogers stats and the team success of Tufts makes him a worthy candidate for POY. They also valued Day over Farrell - folks could argue that one all day long. For Sheldon, I think it was their impressive turnaround and his lengthy tenure that sealed the deal for him as COY.

SpringSt7 · March 04, 2020, 01:36:28 PM

The argument for Day over Farrell would be that Day has better numbers in conference, his team had a better record, went further in the conference tournament, and Amherst beat Middlebury.

It's also important to note that the PPG stats do not exist in a vacuum---for example, Matt Hanna averaged 15.6 points per game and Max Bosco averaged 14.8. Colby and Middlebury both play faster up tempo styles on offense. Amherst plays much slower.

Savage on 2nd team is definitely surprising but clearly the coaches felt that Rogers made a bigger impact on his team, hence the POY recognition as well. It is really hard to get two guys from the same team on the 1st team. When James Heskett (22.1) and Bobby Casey (19.2) did it for Williams in 2018, they were 1st and 2nd in the conference in scoring on blistering efficiency and their team won the league. That is a really high bar to clear.

If there was any one award I would change it would be Coach of the Year. No offense to Bob Sheldon, but Strahorn took a team that finished last in the conference in 2017 and turned them into a 24-3 offense juggernaut that was a 35 foot Eric Savage prayer away from winning the NESCAC tournament essentially without their best player. If COY is just going to go to the team that wins the conference (except for Kevin App), why even have the award?

SpringSt7 · March 04, 2020, 01:47:08 PM

Also, what were the odds that of Robinson, Hutcherson, and Farrell, that only Farrell would make an all-league team the next year, and it was 2nd team? Or that last year might end up being Robinson and Hutcherson's (obviously) only year of 1st team recognition? Crazy stuff. Just goes to show how there are no guarantees in this league.

Bucket · March 04, 2020, 05:15:32 PM

Quote from: SpringSt7 on March 04, 2020, 01:36:28 PM

If there was any one award I would change it would be Coach of the Year. No offense to Bob Sheldon, but Strahorn took a team that finished last in the conference in 2017 and turned them into a 24-3 offense juggernaut that was a 35 foot Eric Savage prayer away from winning the NESCAC tournament essentially without their best player. If COY is just going to go to the team that wins the conference (except for Kevin App), why even have the award?

Although one can make the counter argument that in a year's time, Sheldon took Tufts from 8th to 1st, while Colby went from 7th to 2nd. Further, Colby was 17-8 last year, while Tufts was 12-14. And Tufts and Sheldon beat Strahorn and Colby twice this year.

I playing Devil's advocate here. If I had a vote, it would have been for Strahorn.

lumbercat · March 04, 2020, 07:12:31 PM

As I've stated prior I have opinions on Strahorns game presence but I can't remember a better overall coaching job. With the exception of Weiner he has no size whatsoever but structured a great offensive scheme and most importantly he executed it game after game when everyone knew what was coming.

He lost the best shooter in the league down the stretch and Tufts needed a 25 footer at home to force that first overtime.

Not sure where Colby ranked in assists but they shared the ball brilliantly all year.

He was robbed.

Cards Fan · March 04, 2020, 07:26:25 PM

Quote from: lumbercat on March 04, 2020, 07:12:31 PM
As I've stated prior I have opinions on Strahorns game presence but I can't remember a better overall coaching job. With the exception of Weiner he has no size whatsoever but structured a great offensive scheme and most importantly he executed it game after game when everyone knew what was coming.

He lost the best shooter in the league down the stretch and Tufts needed a 25 footer at home to force that first overtime.

Not sure where Colby ranked in assists but they shared the ball brilliantly all year.

He was robbed.

Have to take his unreal turnaround of the program into account, too - not many coaches can make a 1-9 team the 2 seed within 2 seasons. There were so many nail biters that Colby took down the stretch that are heavily influenced by coaching. That's not to say that Sheldon didn't deserve this - two wins over Colby and a turnaround season of their own (12-14 last year) really does have an effect - but I absolutely agree that Strahorn was robbed.

Quote from: SpringSt7 on March 04, 2020, 01:47:08 PM
Also, what were the odds that of Robinson, Hutcherson, and Farrell, that only Farrell would make an all-league team the next year, and it was 2nd team? Or that last year might end up being Robinson and Hutcherson's (obviously) only year of 1st team recognition? Crazy stuff. Just goes to show how there are no guarantees in this league.

Wesleyan having Austin Hutcherson would literally have affected every single team's standings. So many of those losses would have been preventable with a lead-by-example type of guy out there. He brought out the shine in so many of Wesleyan's players' game. It's hard to believe he was out on the floor for them just last year.
I'm convinced that without him, Nathan Krill would have never shined through the way he did in his senior year, and the same for JR Bascom. He made everyone look better than they were.

SpringSt7 · March 04, 2020, 08:08:50 PM

Comparing the turnarounds from Colby and Tufts is a little lazy in my opinion. Tufts went 12-14, yes, but they also had 5 guys score in double digits, and beat Middlebury twice, including a playoff game in Pepin that really wasn't much of a fluke. They just couldn't guard a soul last year. How many NESCAC teams allow 85.5 points a game? All 5 of those guys returned, Rogers learned how to play more than 19 minutes a game, and collectively they took a step up defensively, which usually happens when you return your whole team.

Colby's gradual improvements every year deserve much more credit, instead of Strahorn being penalized for fielding a better team last year than Tufts, despite having similar, if not inferior, talent on paper. This year Jefferson took the jump from a fringe all-league guy to a legit All-American when healthy, Dorion was one of the best shooters in the country for most of the season, and despite returning almost his whole rotation, still found a way to build a lot of the offense around Will King, who no one had on their radar as a ROY candidate coming into the season.

This was a program turnaround, not a team turnaround. Tufts was preseason #6 in the country two years ago and missed the NCAA tournament.

Cards Fan · March 04, 2020, 08:35:08 PM

Quote from: SpringSt7 on March 04, 2020, 08:08:50 PM
Comparing the turnarounds from Colby and Tufts is a little lazy in my opinion. Tufts went 12-14, yes, but they also had 5 guys score in double digits, and beat Middlebury twice, including a playoff game in Pepin that really wasn't much of a fluke. They just couldn't guard a soul last year. How many NESCAC teams allow 85.5 points a game? All 5 of those guys returned, Rogers learned how to play more than 19 minutes a game, and collectively they took a step up defensively, which usually happens when you return your whole team.

Colby's gradual improvements every year deserve much more credit, instead of Strahorn being penalized for fielding a better team last year than Tufts, despite having similar, if not inferior, talent on paper. This year Jefferson took the jump from a fringe all-league guy to a legit All-American when healthy, Dorion was one of the best shooters in the country for most of the season, and despite returning almost his whole rotation, still found a way to build a lot of the offense around Will King, who no one had on their radar as a ROY candidate coming into the season.

This was a program turnaround, not a team turnaround. Tufts was preseason #6 in the country two years ago and missed the NCAA tournament.

Seems tough to make a statement you agree with on here. My posts aren't meant to be "lazy" - just really like looking into stats. Guess I'll have to change up my basis.
I wasn't trying to make a case solely based on turnarounds - just thought he could get some credit as well. I made it pretty clear I agreed that Strahorn had the better resume for COY.

SpringSt7 · March 04, 2020, 08:45:05 PM

That's totally my bad for coming across that way----seems like we're on the same page. If you were the only one who was comparing turnarounds then that is my fault for accidentally singling you out. Was more trying to reinforce what you said and point out how lopsided it was.

Smitty Oom · March 05, 2020, 12:12:22 AM

Duncan seems to be enjoying himself in Miami!

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1235379323269533699

nescac1 · March 05, 2020, 09:26:13 AM

Debunked!

https://twitter.com/mainteamsports/status/1235424162442772482?s=21

Speaking of Duncan these stats are just beyond belief ...

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/03/05/sports/basketball/ap-bkn-heat-robinsons-3s.html

Back to Nescac, I'm good with Rogers as POY. Jefferson just didn't play enough of the league games, alas, otherwise he'd have been an obvious choice. But Rogers was the most unstoppable healthy force in the league this year. Just incredibly skilled in the post. If he improves his FTAs he's a first team all-American as a senior.

SpringSt7 · March 05, 2020, 06:49:44 PM

Looking at Middlebury's pod...Westfield St. is 1st in the country in total rebounds, 6th best offensive rebounding, and 14th best defensive rebounding. Middlebury had a negative rebounding margin on the year. Is that going to be an issue for them? They are obviously the better team but that is the type of stylistic difference that can give teams a lot of trouble in the tournament.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) · March 05, 2020, 06:53:04 PM

The Midd guards rebound well. That's something.

SpringSt7 · March 05, 2020, 07:27:07 PM

Last Middlebury thing from their pod---in a weird coincidence, Middlebury's two most likely opponents, Westfield St. and then Brockport, are #1 and #2 in the country in free throw attempts. They both get to the line a whole lot. For a team that is already perilously thin on depth (any word on Cahill by the way?), playing two teams that are going to draw a lot of fouls is not the ideal matchup. I liked Middlebury's pod on Monday but now the rebounding and foul numbers have me a little wary.

Of course, there is always the possibility that they play up to their potential and blow everybody off of the court this weekend. I wouldn't rule that out at all. But there are some stylistic concerns to say the least.

Bucket · March 05, 2020, 08:39:24 PM

Quote from: SpringSt7 on March 05, 2020, 07:27:07 PM
Last Middlebury thing from their pod---in a weird coincidence, Middlebury's two most likely opponents, Westfield St. and then Brockport, are #1 and #2 in the country in free throw attempts. They both get to the line a whole lot. For a team that is already perilously thin on depth (any word on Cahill by the way?), playing two teams that are going to draw a lot of fouls is not the ideal matchup. I liked Middlebury's pod on Monday but now the rebounding and foul numbers have me a little wary.

Of course, there is always the possibility that they play up to their potential and blow everybody off of the court this weekend. I wouldn't rule that out at all. But there are some stylistic concerns to say the least.

Cahill was out of his boot two weeks ago, so I expect that he will be available and healthy tomorrow. Midd really struggled on the boards in his absence.