MBB: NESCAC

[nescac1]

Yeah, those are all difficult issues Dave, no doubt, hadn't really thought any of those through.  Dang it.  It's all just such a bummer.  But what's been happening in these early test case pro sports environments is not going to encourage college decision-makers.  Not at all.

[JEFFFAN]

All one has to do - not that anyone should waste their time doing this! - is read the missives coming out of the president's office at Amherst over the last year to know what I am referring to in terms of giving the AD direction.   I have no reason to believe that the committee had any influence as frankly it should always be the decision of the AD and not a committee.   Any committee should advise but not have a role of consent.   There is zero doubt in my mind that the AD was given very specific direction from the office of the president as it relates to this hire as well as other hires of late.   Which, as Dave and others have pointed, is completely the prerogative of the office of the president to do.

[ThumannsOwn]

All one has to do - not that anyone should waste their time doing this! - is read the missives coming out of the president's office at Amherst over the last year to know what I am referring to in terms of giving the AD direction.   I have no reason to believe that the committee had any influence as frankly it should always be the decision of the AD and not a committee.   Any committee should advise but not have a role of consent.   There is zero doubt in my mind that the AD was given very specific direction from the office of the president as it relates to this hire as well as other hires of late.   Which, as Dave and others have pointed, is completely the prerogative of the office of the president to do.

Agreed. Very hard to believe that Biddy Martin didn't in some way direct the AD on this particular hire knowing that she commissioned the McKinsey Global Institute to determine the efficacy of eliminating athletics at Amherst altogether back in 2016.

[SpringSt7]

This is not directed at the Amherst folks in particular---I'll leave them to discuss their own situation as I've mentioned prior, but do these committees ever do anything in the NESCAC? I don't know the specifics but it always struck me as checking some sort of legal box or, for lack of a better term, a PR move. Of course it's the AD's job to make hires right? Why would I want to hear from a chemistry professor, a sophomore on the golf team, and a recent alum for recommendations on coaches?

[AndOne]

This is not directed at the Amherst folks in particular---I'll leave them to discuss their own situation as I've mentioned prior, but do these committees ever do anything in the NESCAC? I don't know the specifics but it always struck me as checking some sort of legal box or, for lack of a better term, a PR move. Of course it's the AD's job to make hires right? Why would I want to hear from a chemistry professor, a sophomore on the golf team, and a recent alum for recommendations on coaches?

I'm not sure how things might usually work in the NESCAC in general or at any one specific conference school. However, I can tell you that the last time one prominent school in a major conference in the Central Region had an opening for a Head Basketball Coach, a committee, composed substantially of very supportive alums (many of whom were former basketball players) was formed. Their purpose was to screen all the initial applications, selecting those that would go on to a second round of review/interviews, and then selecting the finalists and making recommendations concerning them to school and athletic administration for finalist interviews and selection. I believe the Administration at the time, which was very supportive of athletics, actually wanted the input of the alums, particularly those that were former players. I think one reason for involving the alums was that several, former players and not, were large financial contributors to the School that the Administration did not want to risk angering for fear of possibly losing buckets of donation dollars. There were undoubtedly other considerations involved as well. And, no, the AD didn't  necessarily want a chem professor's opinion, but you can bet the opinion of the basketball team advisor, a professor in another department, was indeed considered. So there's one reason/situation why the opinion of alums might be a factor. 

[SpringSt7]

I should clarify---when I say an alum, I would mean a random alum, not necesarrily connected to the sport. The NESCAC has trended towards gathering a wide variety of opinions from all different places when it comes to soliciting opinions on all sorts of topics. A panel of basketball/whatever the sport is/ alums sounds like a great idea for a hiring process. Not the case here, however.

[saratoga]

https://www.recorder.com/Keeping-Score-Amherst-College-lacrosse-34048451

From the sounds of this, the Amherst president made a horrible situation about a million times worse in her zeal to prove athletics are the root of all evil in the Western world.

Clearly, someone had their itty-biddy hands all over this.

[JEFFFAN]

https://www.recorder.com/Keeping-Score-Amherst-College-lacrosse-34048451

From the sounds of this, the Amherst president made a horrible situation about a million times worse in her zeal to prove athletics are the root of all evil in the Western world.

Clearly, someone had their itty-biddy hands all over this.

That author wrote 3-4 articles about the topic if anyone is interested.  To say that the administration misplayed the lacrosse situation is a major understatement, but since this is a hoops board and not a lax board it isn't worth going into. Head over to www.laxfan.com if you want to read about it.  There is also this from the authoritative lacrosse website:

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/opinion-amherst-thompson-face-opposite-challenges-in-wake-of-separation/56398

Re committees, I think it is normal course and probably best practices for committees to be formed to provide insight about candidates.   The AD has responsibility for 20+ sports so having a few folks to provide assistance is a good thing.  Then the AD makes the decision or, in the case of Amherst hoops, the President of the school tells the AD who to hire.

I digress ...

[nescac1]

I have no insight into Amherst beyond what I see here.  But what's strange to me is that it really seems like Amherst has done an excellent job in terms of diversifying its most prominent teams (football, hoops, soccer all seem to have very diverse rosters, and that has been a criticism leveled generally about Nescac athletics).  So really, Amherst has been a model in that department, making hostility towards athletics by senior administration (if it indeed exists) all the more cryptic.  Amherst athletics certainly has nothing to apologize for (beyond a few incidents limited to a single team, at least).  But as a Willians fan, I can't say I'm complaining if Amherst really is deemphasizing sports!  After all, the schools are usually competing for the same pool of prospects. 

[Colby Hoops]

https://www.recorder.com/Keeping-Score-Amherst-College-lacrosse-34048451

From the sounds of this, the Amherst president made a horrible situation about a million times worse in her zeal to prove athletics are the root of all evil in the Western world.

Clearly, someone had their itty-biddy hands all over this.

I''l quibble with the lede -- "a mountain has grown from a molehill..." Using the n-word in any way is despicable and I think making a big deal out of it is warranted. It's not a molehill, that's for sure. Martin probably went too far, but, I think erring on that side is easily the better side to err on.

[booyakasha]

https://www.recorder.com/Keeping-Score-Amherst-College-lacrosse-34048451

From the sounds of this, the Amherst president made a horrible situation about a million times worse in her zeal to prove athletics are the root of all evil in the Western world.



Clearly, someone had their itty-biddy hands all over this.

I''l quibble with the lede -- "a mountain has grown from a molehill..." Using the n-word in any way is despicable and I think making a big deal out of it is warranted. It's not a molehill, that's for sure. Martin probably went too far, but, I think erring on that side is easily the better side to err on.

Ain't that the truth.

When some of the dinosaurs around here who fail to see the problem with the lacrosse incident fade into distant memory, Amherst and the NESCAC as a whole will be better off.

[JEFFFAN]

Hi there - apparent dinosaur here - thanks for throwing a blanket over the situation in tarnishing anyone who dares to disagree with the decision making process that Amherst embarked on.   Always very helpful to make glib assumptions and going with them.   For what it is worth, I am intimately familiar with the Amherst situation and the public facts are simply incorrect.  There is a reason that there have been hundreds of Amherst alumni - dinosaurs, I guess - who have bombarded the administration with letters of complaint/concern with the fact that the administration not only did not correct the public facts but also ran a faulty process.

By the way, the perpetrators of this act went through an exhaustive discipline process by the school.  All four of them.   Know what the result was??  Anyone want to venture a guess?

Not one of the four students was disciplined and all graduated on time.   All four students took part in the virtual graduation ceremony.

[Colby Hoops]

Hi there - apparent dinosaur here - thanks for throwing a blanket over the situation in tarnishing anyone who dares to disagree with the decision making process that Amherst embarked on.   Always very helpful to make glib assumptions and going with them.   For what it is worth, I am intimately familiar with the Amherst situation and the public facts are simply incorrect.  There is a reason that there have been hundreds of Amherst alumni - dinosaurs, I guess - who have bombarded the administration with letters of complaint/concern with the fact that the administration not only did not correct the public facts but also ran a faulty process.

By the way, the perpetrators of this act went through an exhaustive discipline process by the school.  All four of them.   Know what the result was??  Anyone want to venture a guess?

Not one of the four students was disciplined and all graduated on time.   All four students took part in the virtual graduation ceremony.

I've yet to see any public details that indicate the players didn't say the n-word. I understand there was a lot of hyperbole around the initial reporting of the story, but unless that part is incorrect, I don't really blame the Amherst brass for overreacting. I do understand the frustration, and I obviously think the McKinsey thing is ludicrous, but coming off as "lenient" against racist comments is far worse than the other way around.

I can't speak to the hiring on the non-basketball sports, but I think the Spears commentary on here has been unfair. His resume is legit. I understand that there are a lot of other qualified candidates, some who have Amherst degrees, but I don't think picking Spears is a ludicrous decision that some are making it out to be.

[ThumannsOwn]

Hi there - apparent dinosaur here - thanks for throwing a blanket over the situation in tarnishing anyone who dares to disagree with the decision making process that Amherst embarked on.   Always very helpful to make glib assumptions and going with them.   For what it is worth, I am intimately familiar with the Amherst situation and the public facts are simply incorrect.  There is a reason that there have been hundreds of Amherst alumni - dinosaurs, I guess - who have bombarded the administration with letters of complaint/concern with the fact that the administration not only did not correct the public facts but also ran a faulty process.

By the way, the perpetrators of this act went through an exhaustive discipline process by the school.  All four of them.   Know what the result was??  Anyone want to venture a guess?

Not one of the four students was disciplined and all graduated on time.   All four students took part in the virtual graduation ceremony.

I've yet to see any public details that indicate the players didn't say the n-word. I understand there was a lot of hyperbole around the initial reporting of the story, but unless that part is incorrect, I don't really blame the Amherst brass for overreacting. I do understand the frustration, and I obviously think the McKinsey thing is ludicrous, but coming off as "lenient" against racist comments is far worse than the other way around.

I can't speak to the hiring on the non-basketball sports, but I think the Spears commentary on here has been unfair. His resume is legit. I understand that there are a lot of other qualified candidates, some who have Amherst degrees, but I don't think picking Spears is a ludicrous decision that some are making it out to be.

Do you view the lack of student suspension by the school as coming off as "lenient" against racism?

[Colby Hoops]

Hi there - apparent dinosaur here - thanks for throwing a blanket over the situation in tarnishing anyone who dares to disagree with the decision making process that Amherst embarked on.   Always very helpful to make glib assumptions and going with them.   For what it is worth, I am intimately familiar with the Amherst situation and the public facts are simply incorrect.  There is a reason that there have been hundreds of Amherst alumni - dinosaurs, I guess - who have bombarded the administration with letters of complaint/concern with the fact that the administration not only did not correct the public facts but also ran a faulty process.

By the way, the perpetrators of this act went through an exhaustive discipline process by the school.  All four of them.   Know what the result was??  Anyone want to venture a guess?

Not one of the four students was disciplined and all graduated on time.   All four students took part in the virtual graduation ceremony.

I've yet to see any public details that indicate the players didn't say the n-word. I understand there was a lot of hyperbole around the initial reporting of the story, but unless that part is incorrect, I don't really blame the Amherst brass for overreacting. I do understand the frustration, and I obviously think the McKinsey thing is ludicrous, but coming off as "lenient" against racist comments is far worse than the other way around.

I can't speak to the hiring on the non-basketball sports, but I think the Spears commentary on here has been unfair. His resume is legit. I understand that there are a lot of other qualified candidates, some who have Amherst degrees, but I don't think picking Spears is a ludicrous decision that some are making it out to be.

Do you view the lack of student suspension by the school as coming off as "lenient" against racism?

Yes. I wouldn't want people who use that word graduating from my alma mater. I'm guessing there are legal and logistical hurdles to a suspension or expulsion that led to that decision, which doesn't necessarily make it the correct one.