MBB: NESCAC

[SpringSt7]

I would lean towards the D3 teams winning, just because I'm inclined to pick a group of 21 ish year olds over a group of 17-18 year olds, guys who are more developed physically, have learned how to play really hard, and probably are running schemes that give them an additional edge. But it would depend on a lot of things. Some of those prep schools have serious serious size.

On the women's soccer matchup, 15 years old is still a pretty decent age, I would bet those kids are all on average taller than the USWNT players are. I'd imagine they just spent the entire game trying to sprint past them and score via header.

I've always wanted to see a Kentucky vs. the Bobcats type of matchup because I think there have been years where the best D1 college team would have a similar level to a god awful tanking team. The same would not hold true for football however.

[Sabrina76]

The speed of the game is too great, which is generally the problem in most sports. Court coverage in tennis, defense in bball in addition to the obvious strength and height differentials. If one looks at the recent US/Mexico soccer game, the US got bailed out essentially because it's team speed and superior athleticism countered the greater skill level of Mexico. A D3/top 5 hs team game would depend on the discipline/coaching of the college team v. the most likely superior athleticism of the hs team. Remember the US bball team struggled about 15-20 years ago against inferior athletic international teams due to being outsmarted by teams used to the international rules (and US players not being protected by the officials the way they were used to). That's all passed now. I'm usually disappointed when I watch these hs teams though I recognize the raw talent. Larry Bird said LeBron would start immediately in the NBA after hs, he was that good. Not too many LeBrons on these teams but some of the talent is extraordinariy, though very undisciplined.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I tell you what, though, it would have to be A LOT of money for a d3 team to agree to play UConn. You'd be known primarily as villains to most of the world.

[Painter66]

This discussion is uncomfortable for me. I look at D3 sports, and NESCAC in particular, as a welcome relief from the commercialization of college sports. I think they have done a good job keeping sports as an adjunct, albeit an important adjunct, to the D3 college experience. We should be happy with what we have, and not look for silly and unprovable analogies to other levels of the sports. Our athletes compete and a high level, and then graduate to the real world. That is valuable and worth keeping right where it is.

[toad22]

I'm sure that this topic has been discussed over the years, but since it has popped into my head, and in person basketball watching is nothing but a distant memory, I will list my favorite and least favorite NESCAC gyms, from a fan's perspective Of course, I am biased!
Williams - getting a bit long in the tooth, but still a great place to watch basketball.
Middlebury - many of the same good viewing characteristics as Williams.
Bates - historic, fun to play in, fun to watch games from, quirky, reminds me of a bunch of 1960s gyms
Wesleyan, new, well laid out, easy watching.
Bowdoin - another throw-back, intimate, though no everybody's cup of tea.
Colby - Not terrible.
Trinity - terrible
Amherst - A bad high school gym. What were they thinking? Terrible.
Hamilton - Even worse
Conn College - The worst. If a gym could say "We don't care about basketball"  this is it. The bottom of   the barrel.

[toad22]

I forgot Tufts. They are much improved, I rate them fifth now. A good place to watch a game.

[quicksilver]

@Toad22 -- Remember that Colby will be playing in a brand new facility in the 2021-22 season. You can get a little bit of a sense of the new Colby facility here.

[SpringSt7]

I have never understood the appeal to the Bates gym to be perfectly honest, it seems like a less quirky version of the Amherst gym with a lot less tradition and big game feel. Middlebury and Tufts seem to be the best gyms from a physical standpoint, not factoring in crowds or other factors. I think the majority of the schools struggling finding the best way to host a basketball game that only a couple hundred people might show up for. It's a funky range.

[Painter66]

Middlebury's gym is essentially the same place we played in the 60s and 70s. It has been updated and has great seating and atmosphere, but to walk on the court sends me back in time to very tough practice sessions right on that same spot. The good news is that both the students and the community support the team and turn out for games. Several hundred to 1200 capacity is normal, especially after J term. It's a great place to watch a game. Of course, I'm biased.

[Colby Hoops]

I have never understood the appeal to the Bates gym to be perfectly honest, it seems like a less quirky version of the Amherst gym with a lot less tradition and big game feel.

We're probably both biased by the different rivalries, but I'd put the Bates gym first by a mile. Yes, it's objectively a terrible gym, but it is a a scene during big games -- so much louder than any other gym because of it's size. The fire marshal comes to every Colby-Bates game to keep capacity within reason. Have to get there early to get a seat, and there's no hockey team at Bates, so the fans are very supportive.

The newer, big gyms just don't have that feel.

Here are my rankings:

• Bates for reasons above
• Middlebury -- great facility, not too large, good fans. Glass hallway look over is a nice touch.
• Bowdoin -- the second deck hovering over the gym makes it feel more intimate and crowded.
• Tufts -- Unique gym and very new and nice. Would be higher if they ever had fans to fill the seats.
• Amherst -- good fan support and right idea with smaller bleachers, but the tarp on one end make it feel a little cavernous
• Williams -- Facility is decent, nothing too special. Student support is pretty limited to the Amherst games, which makes it feel empty.
• Colby -- old place was pretty bad -- too big, weird poles on one side that blocked views. New one will be the best in terms of the actual facility, but my guess is it will be like Wesleyan in that it's nice but feels a little lacking because it's so big.
• Wesleyan -- nice, new, but very sterile
• Trinity -- gym is dark and zero fan support, but it's not horrible
• Hamilton -- field house with a court is no good
• Conn -- clearly the worst

[SpringSt7]

I tried to focus strictly on the physical characteristics of the gyms just because if we're being totally honest, overwhelming atmospheres, especially from the students, is not a huge selling point of NESCAC basketball.

[nescac1]

I wish that Williams would play one or two varsity home games per year in the old Lasell gym.  It has an awesome history (and historic feel), and could be a crazy, fun atmosphere (similar to Bates) with a packed crowd, especially with fans on the track above the gym.  It could make some of the least interesting non-league games, the type that draw hardly any crowd, into actual campus events.  I believe the Eph women played one game there once on some sort of historic anniversary or something.  Because yeah, outside of Amherst games or NESCAC / NCAA playoff games, Chandler never really approaches capacity. 

On a related note, it seems like even Amherst-Williams games (at BOTH Lefrak and Chandler) are not packed the way they used to be even, say, 15 years ago, when those games ALWAYS were packed and frenzied in the stands.  The attendance numbers for even those games (in the regular season)in 19-20 were shockingly low relative to full capacity.  Do students just not attend sporting events on campus the way they used to?  I feel like football games are not the campus event they once were, either, although I imagine much of that has to do with tailgating restrictions. 

[SpringSt7]

I believe the old Lasell gym is no longer of NCAA measurements, otherwise I imagine they would've tried that.

As for the diminishing attendance at Williams-Amherst games, I think it's been an unfortunate byproduct of all of the games being available to stream online. If you live 30-45 minutes away, and you can just watch it at home, is it necessarily required to be in attendance, especially when you know the atmosphere in person is not what it used to be?

[ThumannsOwn]

I will see what I can find out - if anything! - about whether Amherst had current players involved in the basketball interview process.   As discussed previously, Amherst lacrosse players requested and were granted the right to interview the four finalists for the head coach position.   Suffice to say ... their opinions were summarily and entirely dismissed.  IMHO ... I do not believe that current players should have any part of a coaching interview process in any sport.  Not enough perspective.   But at Amherst the then-students were the reason that the mascot was changed so maybe they look at things differently.

Looks like Faulstick should have listened to his lacrosse players before hiring Rashad Devoe.

[AmherstStudent05]

I'm hearing that NESCAC legend Joey Kizel might be on the verge of returning to the NESCAC in an assistant coaching role. Joey has gained tremendous experience at a couple of D1 programs (including Texas) since graduating from Middlebury and surely will be an invaluable resource for any basketball players trying to succeed in the NESCAC. Few have done it better in our conference than Joey! (Maybe he can even teach his players some Chinese!)