MBB: NESCAC

[AmherstStudent05]

Good post, Spring. I would (begrudgingly) agree that the Williams Mt Rushmore may be even harder to construct than the Amherst one. As an Amherst fan I think I might go Crotty, Mayer, Schultz and Whittington but it seems almost impossible to leave off Coffin and Wang. In more recent times Bobby Casey was also a handful and a half.

[SpringSt7]

How crazy is it that Bobby Casey is simultaneously in the dark horse Mt. Rushmore discussion (I think in the short time following his graduation he's become criminally underrated) and also the "is he even one of the two best players in his class?" discussion.

Just to make it abundantly clear as well, Nogelo was, I hope, obviously, only left off my list because of the post 2001 time frame. The Eph list is way harder than the Amherst list in my opinion because the guys basically from 2nd through like 11th (total guess) are near toss ups with near identical individual and team accomplishments, whereas with Amherst there are 2 spots that are already locked down and realistically I don't think there are a lot of ways to leave Workman off either.

[nescac1]

Happy Thanksgiving!  My Eph Mt. Rushmore for guys I've seen:

Nogelo (obviously)
Schultz (four-year starter, ROY, Nescac POY, first team all-American and one national POY award, elite defender, third all-time leading scorer, best player on team that played for title)
Coffin (three-year starter, Nescac POY, best player on two teams that won Nescac and played for title, final four MVP, Eph all-time leading rebounder, best player on floor in win over D1 school).  He had a few of the best games I've seen from any Eph including in a Nescac title battle with Amherst.

To me, those three have to be on there.  Then it's very close for the fourth spot between Crotty, Mayer, and Wang.  Wang would clearly be the guy but he barely played as a frosh and was a shadow of himself really starting in the final four his junior year through his entire senior year.  I think I'll go, barely, with Mayer just because he was so dominant as a junior and senior (especially in the NCAA tourney in which I remember him owning a lot of quality big men) while also being a major contributor as a sophomore.  Casey and Whittington also in the mix but slightly behind that group for me. I hate to knock Crotty off but I think he was, barely, the second best player in his own class so that's why he gets edged out. 

But maybe that fourth spot can be grabbed by one of Cole, Roughley, Porter or Karren if they make huge strides as players in the coming years; other than Nogelo and maybe Crotty you could not have said any of the Eph guys noted above were clearly bound for careers like they had when they were young players.  Eph fans sure hope so!  Cole and Roughley certainly have the raw tools of some prior Eph greats, but that's only a starting point. 

My Amherst Mt Rushmore goes Olson, Toomey, Jamal Wilson and then it's between Bedford, Zieja, and Workman.  I'll go Workman.  Zieja like Wang would be there but for injury.  His injury senior year may have cost Amherst the title (at least it would have been a lot more interesting vs Williams in post season) just like I'm convinced Williams likely wins in 2011 but for both Whittington and Wang playing really hurt in the final four. 

Midd: Sharry, St. Amour, Kizel, Rudin.  I think that one is fairly clear ... although maybe some of the Nolan Thompson fans who thought he was better than Toomey would have a differing view!

Oh and one more Mt Rushmore ... my Eph "what-if" Mt Rushmore is Duncan Robinson, Manny Benjamin, Keith Wolff and Kyle Scadlock.  Those guys leaving or dealing with major injuries changed the course of a bunch of Eph seasons.  Not many folks here saw Wolff (he's certainly on Trinity's Mt Rushmore along with Rhoten) but had he played with Noah Clarke, Rob Bice, Rob Williams, John Botti and Geoff Chaplin, it would have been ridiculous. 

[AmherstStudent05]

I would be interested to hear from our Midd posters of course, but without doing a deep dive on it, my initial Midd Mt Rushmore would be Sharry, MSA, Kizel (I think those three have to be locks), and Daly. Although this may well reflect my own biases as I probably followed Midd a bit more closely in Jack's time than I did during Ben's senior year. Seems like perhaps no Mt Rushmore is easy!

[Bucket]

I love this Mount Rushmore discussion.

For Midd, I agree that Sharry, St. Amour, Kizel are locks, and that the fourth spot is an interesting one to debate.

For me, Rudin and Daly are the leading contenders, but I also have a couple of provocative nominations. I recognize that nescac1's comment about Nolan Thompson was tongue in cheek (relating to past message board squabbles about how he compared to Aaron Toomey, which, for the record I thought to be silly, the comparisons). So much of Nolan's contributions were under the radar(ish), if defensive player of the year awards are considered under the radar. An argument could be made that his defensive prowess, his ability to knock down clutch shots, and his leadership would warrant inclusion on Midd Rushmore. As a sophomore and then senior, he was such a critical player on Midd teams that reached the Final Four and Elite Eight, respectively. He doesn't have the individual stats as the three locks, but I do think a case can be made.

My other speculative choice: Jack Farrell. It's the ultimate what if. If the 2020-21 season is played and if a stacked Midd squad reaches the Final Four, does Farrell—the engine on a very well-balanced squad—merit consideration? Probably still too much of a stretch, but at least it's worth positing.

Back to Rudin and Daly (added intrigue that they hail from the same region, Scarsdale/Eastchester, though woe to the person who mixes the two burgs up in Daly's presence). Ben Rudin was the undisputed leader of the Panthers his senior season, becoming the first Midd player to earn NESCAC Player of the Year and All American Honors. He also led Midd to its first NESCAC title and first two NCAA births. That's probably enough to get him on Midd Rushmore.  Daly certainly makes the choice competitive, a key component of back-to-back NESCAC title teams as a sophomore and junior, capped off by a terrific senior season when he was first team all conference. Rudin was a scorer; Daly was an all-around dynamo, with triple-double games as evidence. History probably gives Rudin the edge. But on any given day, you could make an argument that it is not either, but rather Nolan Thompson who stands alongside Sharry, MSA, and Joey Kizel on Midd Rushmore.

[nescac1]

Hamilton had had some bad luck this year with Nkosi Cooper on the roster as a volunteer assistant (presumably hurt) and the next-in-line point guard, Conner Rood, apparently now hurt as well after a solid start to the season, leaving the position to a first-year.  Also first-year Hank Morgan who seems like he could be a very good bench scorer hasn't appeared after a strong debut.

What a season so far though for Eric Anderson, 18-7-2, 3 spg, 64/72/80 (!) splits, three made triples per game.  That's crazy, and his career trajectory has been really impressive ...

Tufts gets its first win - finally - but being even with Leslie at halftime isn't great.  Still no Rogers, and clearly he's left a gaping hole.  Emerson is another tough game tomorrow, in a great overall day for Nescac action. 

[jumpshot]

Ephs fail to build on a 9-point halftime lead over Suny-Delhi due to not yet having cleaned up "details" such as defending opponents' in-bound plays, moving offensive picks, careless passes, excessive dribbling, etc. Need to make executing these items well part of the team's culture in order to keep opponents on the ropes.

[jumpshot]

EPHS hold on to beat SUNY-Delhi 74-67, making it closer than need be by committing 20 turnovers, including 11 in the second half. SUNY-Delhi made 11 steals and took 20 more shots that the EPHS. Williams teams that excelled over the years were generally really good passing and ball-handling groups.

[Old Guy]

Really well-played, exciting game today, a 86-81 win, at Middlebury against Endicott, a good team (19-8 in '19-20, finalists in the CCC tournament) with plenty of experience, returning their two best scorers (Arsenault & Echevaria) and a skilled big man, 6'9" Grant. Jeff Brown picked up his 400th win! Well-done, Jeff! I don't comment much on coaching: what do I know? I don't go to practice. What I know at the very least about Jeff is how well he represents the college. It strikes me that this year represents an extraordinary challenge for him, almost literally a brand new team, a roster full of players with no college experience coming in, or very little. We may have to revise our modest expectations a bit, though it's early indeed. We played great.

Midd was up 8 at the half after playing its best half of basketball so far — a fast-paced game, both teams playing hard. Midd was up 8 at the half 43-35. Endicott caught up early in the 2nd and it was back and forth after that, with the Gulls up 78-77 with a minute left. Osher (Midd) hit a jumper, Echevaria missed a three pointer, and Middlebury went 6-6 from the line in the last 30 seconds (Edwards 4-4, Osher 2-2), and Midd came away with the win. Fun! I believe Endicott will turn out to be a significant win when we look back. They were 3-1 coming in, their only loss a 3 point loss to MIT.

Osher had 22, playing very much to his strength, shooting the basketball. He hits the 3, but also likes the 12-15' jump shot, up-fake, a dribble, and a two. Stevens is flat-out good, a three point marksman who also gets the ball on the blocks, hits a short fall-away over the tall boys inside. A 6'5" three is a good thing to have, no? He's off to a great start. Everyone loves Brennan (6'5"), just works and works, relentless. Terrific today: 5-5 from the floor, 3-4 from the line, 11 rebounds (7 offensive) in 35 minutes. Now, Bobbett, the other freshman: with Nash out (wrist surgery) and Osher much better at the 2, Bobbett has been handed the point position and gets better every game, played 35 minutes today, creative, unafraid to take the big shot (had a beautiful twisting lay-up late), 7 points, just 3 TOs. Plus, he's an outstanding defender, quick & strong, often guarding the other team's best ballhandler. Sobel got in foul trouble early, only played 24 minutes, but was a force at either end - 10 points, 7 rebounds.

[Painter66]

Old guy has seen them all for a long time, and as someone who played with him, I defer his opinions. It is such a strange year, as Midd lost its entire senior team that might have challenged for the national title. It has been hard to take. Sobel, Brennan, Stevens, and Osher are doing a remarkable job, and they have great help on a small bench. Today was terrific, and they came through in the end of a tough game. Not sure where this goes when the NESCAC starts, but fun to watch and makes me proud. I never really though I would see a coach win 400 games in 24 years at Midd. What an accomplishment.

[SpringSt7]

3rd game out of 4 fouling out for Alex Sobel tonight. Has 22 fouls in the last 5 games. This was an issue for him as a freshman and appears still to be an issue.

[nescac1]

Some general NESCAC thoughts:

The Little 3 continue to pretty clearly be the class of the league.  It's very hard to judge them relative to each other until they start playing better competition, but on the eye / stats test Williams seems to be a bit behind Amherst and Wesleyan right now, both of whom I expect will be in the D3hoops top 25 that comes out this week, each certainly seems like a worth top 25 team even though it would be nice if Amherst had played anyone of consequence.  I think the three teams are very close in talent, but Amherst and Wesleyan are a bit more reliant on fifth-year seniors and fourth-year juniors, which is an advantage.  Biggest concern for Amherst is how long McCarthy is out, he is an important player for them because other than Day it seems like no one else is a very reliable three-point shooter and they could use his spacing.  Won't matter at LEAST until the Babson game given that they are playing the little sisters of the poor. 

Williams can look like world-beaters and an average team even within the same half (never moreso than last night in the second half).  Not shocking for a still-inexperienced but very talented team.  Stoddard is an important player off the bench so hopefully is back soon for the Ephs, right now they are having to play Spivy a few too many minutes.   The sophomore class is SO much better as a group than they were as frosh, yet still have room to keep growing as a players.  Still, encouraging to see what massive strides they've already taken, Cole should be an all-American before he is done (and isn't far from that level even as a sophomore) and Nate Karren might get there too.  Hopefully Roughley and Porter, as older frosh, can have an accelerated growth path, both clearly have a ton of talent and just need to get more comfortable in their roles and figuring out how to find their offense when they aren't going to be the first or second option necessarily, challenging for any player let alone a young player.  If by February both are fully integrated the offense will be very deep and very balanced.  Wesleyan-Williams Saturday should be a real test for both teams, certainly!

I cannot figure out what is going on at Bates.  Baxter played only a few minutes off the bench yesterday, is he hurt, but if he is hurt, why playing at all?  A lot of different guys are shuffing in and out of the lineup (nine different guys have started at least one game) so clearly Furbush is still figuring out what he has.  Sarr seems to be playing very inconsistent minutes as well.  Feels like a team which is a year away.  Tufts, what a nightmare start, I have a feeling the personnel may not be a perfect match for what Linton wants to do, he doesn't have the quickness (especially defensively) he had at Nichols.  Certainly the Jumbos are desperate to get Rogers back, but it's already too late for Pool C.  Bowdoin and Conn clearly are just very young teams who are going to have a lot of growing pains this year before hopefully being a lot better with all their key guys back next year.

Trinity, Hamilton, Colby and Midd (and I assume Tufts, eventually) feel like the middle of the league, with Colby, of those, most likely to make a leap into a league title / Pool C contender.  I think I jinxed Eric Anderson because he came back to earth in a MAJOR way yesterday but Hamilton still managed to squeak it out.  Another team that needs to get healthy.  Trinity's hyped transfer has barely played which is a surprise, maybe an injury issue?  Or maybe just needs time. 

Midd has definitely exceeded my expectations and I can see why the Midd fans are pleasantly surprised even though this is clearly not a team at the level of past Midd teams.  Stevens is obviously a future star and looks like an increasingly good bet for ROY.  To be as competitive as they have been with two frosh, a sophomore who is effectively a frosh, and a sophomore who didn't play at all as a frosh all in the starting lineup is very impressive.  Osher I assume has made huge strides considering he couldn't crack a (to be fair very veteran) guard lineup at all as a frosh.  And yeah if Kornaker, Bosco, Farrell and Eastman were back, wow these guys would be loaded (even if just the last two came back).  Add them to the long list of NESCAC what-if's in recent years (Hutcherson, Duncan Robinson, etc.).  Midd seems to be relying way too heavily on its starters for production right now which is an issue especially with Sobel's propensity for foul trouble as SpringSt noted, but with all five of those guys returning next year and depth help on the way in recruiting, they may be right back in the mix next season and a feisty opponent for the rest of this season.

[Greek Tragedy]

3rd game out of 4 fouling out for Alex Sobel tonight. Has 22 fouls in the last 5 games. This was an issue for him as a freshman and appears still to be an issue.

When the guy isn't fouling out, he seems unstoppable, at least from what I see in the box score.

[Old Guy]

3rd game out of 4 fouling out for Alex Sobel tonight. Has 22 fouls in the last 5 games. This was an issue for him as a freshman and appears still to be an issue.

I have a little different take. Many NESCAC teams are deep at the 5 position. Williams, it seems, has a benchful every year of 6'8 guys: they seem to just run 'em out there (the best guy plays more minutes than the others). They and other teams with depth at that position have 15 fouls to work with. They can contest every drive to the hoop. I don't think Sobel is "foul-prone," in that he commits dumb fouls. He has excellent timing and hands and is a natural shot blocker, rim protector. His presence in the paint makes a difference, is intimidating and inhibits opposition offenses. He was not treated well by the refs yesterday (but I know how that sounds, a common whine). He's aggressive. Coach Brown will have to limit his minutes, which he did yesterday, despite the five fouls (he missed the last minute and a half). Zodda (6'6") gave Midd 15 good minutes and Brennan, though a frosh and undersized is a warrior.

[SpringSt7]

Matt Karpowicz: 139 career fouls in 1903 career minutes, 2.92 fouls per 40 minutes

Michael Kempton: 150 career fouls in 1636 career minutes, 3.67 fouls per 40 minutes

Nate Karren: 43 career fouls in 400 career minutes, 4.3 fouls per 40 minutes

Alex Sobel: 125 career fouls in 740 career minutes, 6.76 fouls per 40 minutes