MBB: NESCAC

[stlawus]

Admittedly I kind of bought into the "CNU has too many injuries/issues to overcome" narrative that was kind of being whispered going into the tournament, but they've just put together about as impressive 3 game run through the tournament that I've seen relative to a team's situation.   Williams doesn't have anything to hang their heads over.  Been following the program the past few seasons given the great games that they've played with SLU and also having a Canton native on the team. Williams had the size advantage in terms of height but several CNU players play significantly bigger than their size given some of their extremely long wingspans.   Great season for the Ephs, especially coming into this game beating the best Oswego team that's probably ever been assembled on their home court.  Williams is poised to have quite a bit of sustained success given all the players coming back, especially since this current run was with several key players out with injuries. 

[D3BBALL]

Very good weekend for all NESCAC teams and not surprising at all, that all won 2 games. Unfortunately for Tufts/Trinity they have to play for the 3rd time in sweet 16.

Williams has been heading in the right direction for the last 2 months. Beat Trinity in a close one and then lost in a close one. They have the most talent in the league top to bottom. They may have the best shot to get to final 4, they just seem to have someone different step up each game. If Roughley and Karren play well, they will be tough to beat.

Tufts/Trinity should be another close one, will be interesting to see what kind of defense Tufts comes out with. In 2nd meeting they went with box and 1 against Callahan-Gold, held him to 4 points but still gave up 80 points.  They had no answer for Okorougo and got out rebounded by 10. Gyimesi played much better in 2nd game and will need a repeat performance if Tufts is going to win.

Regarding the awards, whether it was the coaches or someone at the conference, the reason to change from 10 to 14, had to be about trying to give credit to players on bad teams and having the awards be shared throughout the teams. I think 100% wrong, it just waters down the entire awards process. Usually, we can argue about 1 maybe 2 selections, this year way more than that. As stated by someone in an earlier post, if anything, they should have gone with 3 teams of 5 players. The first team I don't think anyone can argue with those 7, except whether to be on first or second team, but they all belong. I still think Johnson should definitely be on 2nd team. That would have left 2 spots if only 10 players. All of the rest you can make an argument one way or the other. But to say that because they play on bad teams, that hurts their chances, I would counter it is simply an eye test. And Hamilton had 4 wins and got 2 players. I have watched enough league games this year and I don't believe there is one decent coach in the league that would take Poulton, Schainfeld, Singh, Espinosa, Osher, Scherer over Roughley or Smith or even Okorougo. All 3 do some much more for their teams on both ends of the court than any of these. And if they didn't have to defer to the talent of their teammates, their stats would be even better, it's a simple eye test. While Scherer was certainly a defensive force, offensively he didn't do a lot in conference (and you can argue that is not his fault). But Bernstein then should get a look as well, both are about the same. I might have taken one of them along with Roughley or Smith if it was just 10 total players. But all of the 6 mentioned should not be part of the 14, maybe 2-3, but all 6 it's all about keeping everyone happy and that is not what the awards are about. Both Roughley and Smith are simply better players. Leaving them off a top 10 list is ok, leaving them off a 14 list, is wrong.

Go NESCAC this weekend!!

I have been an avid reader of these message boards for quite some time, and am pleased to say that I agree with roughly 75% of said in any given comment (perhaps a conservative estimate). However, to say that Smith, Roughly, and Okorougu are definitively, objectively better players than the six players in this years second team (and that any "smart" coach would trade one for the other in a heartbeat) is blatantly incorrect. In the case of Smith and Okorougu, their offensive performance this season has been heavily dependent on the emergence of Vetter and BCG as first team all conference players (maybe all region). They command so much defensive attention that players such as Smith, Okorougu, and Dorion are able to find seams in the defense to exploit. If you took these players and put them on the rosters of the Maine schools (where they would immediately be the primary offensive weapons), I would guess that they struggle. I do not think that Smith or Okorougu- both incredible perimeter defenders - have taken a difficult shot the entire year. Roughly, one of the best post scorers in the conference, might also experience a decline in production if he isn't playing alongside Karren. The players on the second team this year - specifically Poulton, Singh, Osher, etc, require far more defensive attention and are still producing. They may not have experienced as much team success, but I am more inclined to respect impressive offensive performances from players who are able to perform when the entire gym knows who is going to shoot the ball as opposed to players who shoot uncontested shots because the primary offensive weapons on their teams are being doubled/tripled.
There is a reasonable possibility that I am absolutely incorrect in my assumptions, as I often am. But to say that the three players you mentioned are objectively better than four 15+ ppg guys on the second team seems to be a miscalculation.

I never said all 3, I said 2 and it is an opinion, right or wrong, just that.

[D3BBALL]

100% on Williams, they will be returning a lot of talent.

Tough one tonight, with not playing their best and as stated above a lot due to CN, Williams hung in there and had the game tied with 8 minutes left, got it down to 4 with little over 3 minutes left, but just went cold. Their defense was good, just that CN defense was better.

Tuft/Trinity another battle, tied with 11 minutes to go and then it became the Vetter show. He was just unstoppable. Shame they had to play this game in round of 16, Tufts is going to be good again next year, just need to find a consistent wing scorer. Impressive stat for Trinity they had 3 turn overs against Tufts and 3 against Swarthmore, 2 good defensive teams. If they can continue to do that, may be tough to beat. Will be interesting to see if they can stop the Calvin big, he is very good, scores, rebounds and passes all very well. He just killed RM especially in the first half.

[SpringSt7]

A halftime word on the Williams Class of 2024.5 - echoing the previous sentiments that they have nothing to hang their heads for from yesterday's performance, although there were certainly some layups in the second half they would like to have back. But the last 6 weeks were special and we thank them for their resilience and toughness to fight through all that they fought through to make it a season worth remembering.

But more than anything the 4 of them deserve to be celebrated for their dedication and sacrifice in forgoing an entire year of their lives to make sure they played all 4 years of Williams basketball. It sounds easy now but other than Cole Prowitt-Smith, it was far from a guarantee for Nate Karren, Brandon Arnold, or Alex Stoddard to have anywhere near the individual careers than any of them had, Arnold and Stoddard in particular. They could've finished their 4 years and assessed their options from there, finishing their careers at any number of D3 or in Karren's case probably, a low D1 program. Or, given their different socioeconomic backgrounds, they simply could've chosen to take their degrees and moved onto the real world but instead they chose to spend another year at Williams and they all deserve to be celebrated and thanked for that.

As for the future of the program - yes, it is bright, and there is certainly a world in which they are a better team than they were this year, but a lot will have to go right for that to happen. First and foremost, they need to get healthy, with Evan Glatzer and Ben McGraw's statuses for the start of the 2024-25 season up in the air, and they will need Declan Porter, Brandon Roughley, and Hudson Hansen to have much healthier offseasons than they did last summer. And they will need Alex Lee to play like he did in the first semester, all year long. But the future is bright and they will certainly have a chance be in the conversation at the end of next February

[SpringSt7]

The drought is over - Trinity is the first NESCAC team to advance to the Final Four in 7 years, defeating Calvin 69-62.

How good was the bench depth for Trinity tonight? Vetter and Callahan-Gold were a combined 8-32 and 0-16 from three and the Bantams led for just about all of the last 30 minutes, stretching the lead to 16 at one point. It was the entire second unit - Lazarre and Berry did an incredible job pacing the offense, Macarchuk the usual leadership and some really nice passing out of the mid post. Trevor McDonald was excellent with 7 points, 4 rebounds, and 3 assists but also filled in with the starters with Dana Smith in foul trouble. And filling in for the injured Sean Okpoebo, highly touted freshman Tristan Davis was thrust into the Elite 8 to guard the best center in the country and was part of a team defensive effort that held Jalen Overway to just 3 points and 0 made FGs.

This Trinity team is damn good - 30-1, NESCAC champs, Final Four, with a serious chance to win it. Maybe it's just because they aren't Williams or Amherst they aren't getting the buzz they deserve, from any of us or from anyone nationally. But this is a hell of a basketball team with a real, real, chance to win it all.

[toad22]

Trinity's "second five" is damn good. They play so hard that they really do wear the opponents down. Williams' loss to Trinity was mostly due to the second team.

[gordonmann]

Some of us are VERY excited about this year's Trinity team.

WHOOOO! GO BANTS!

[NESCACBBALLFAN]

Some notes following the Trinity's game last night: Cosgrove and Co have the unique luxury of having a second five that executes a game plan that is both highly effective and noticeably distinct from the first unit. Having watched Trinity extensively this year, I might argue that the defensive intensity from the second group actually exceeds that from the starting unit on many occasions - they close out on perimeter shooters so fast and rebound well for an undersized unit. The opposing team might feel an inherent opportunity to close the gap when the (entire) first unit exits the game at the ~13 min mark in each half, but the second group does an outstanding job quelling whatever hope they might have. This is a big reason why Trinity closes games so well - their starters are well rested entering the final leg. Not many other teams have this ability, especially in the NESCAC.

The backcourt of Lazarre and Berry do an excellent job controlling the offensive pace and McDonald is tough down low - Macarchuk can shoot it on occasion. While the group is certainly more limited offensively, they make enough hustle plays around the rim and generate live ball turnovers to hold their own. This is in contrast to the first units dependence on setting a string of off ball baseline and wing screens for Vetter or BCG.

I'm not sure if I've ever seen the "hockey shift" strategy be so productive. And credit to Cosgrove and Co for keeping the whole team engaged throughout the entire year - having played NESCAC basketball myself I know how difficult it is to keep ~15 young adults in a college setting committed to doing what is best for the team over a grueling 7 month stretch. The depth was apparent last night in a less than superb offensive outing for the first unit - the sign of a good team is being able to win games when your two best players struggle to get it going. Impressive stuff from the mad chickens.

[D3BBALL]

Very good game yesterday, good crowd, even though Trinity was on break.

First want to hope that Overway is ok, was not good to see him in pain and obvious has some sort of knee issue. Hopefully a sprain and nothing more.

Trinity has just been the best "team" in every game they have played so far in the tournament. They play 10 and yesterday one of those 10 was hurt and Davis stepped right up. If I am a center in this league not sure I want to face him in the next 3 years. He has athleticism, strength, quickness and a toughness about him. He is going to be a force next year and beyond. He might not have even played if Sean O had been healthy, but boy did he make a difference.

Someone tweeted that the 2nd team was a plus 18 while on the court, team only won by 7. If the starters, coming back in with a 16 point lead with about 7-8 min to go, didn't throw up bad shot after bad shot, not sure Calvin gets it close. But they did and Varnado and Ressler stepped up big time, and their defense may have been better with Overway out. If he had stayed healthy might have been different game, especially with Varnado and Ressler getting more open looks. Not sure anyone but Davis could handle him one on one.

Yesterday the starters didn't even shoot 30% from the field, 1 of 20 from 3, that is 5%, their best defender in foul trouble from the late first half to the end of the game, and they still won!

Trinity can play defense with anyone, and if they continue to play it they way they have, they should have a good chance of beating Trine. If they can stay away from too many bad shots, they can win it all.

Trinity again with only 3 turn overs, that is I think 10 total in the last 3 games, just unheard of in todays game.

There is something special about Trinity, now they just need to finish it off.

[Bantam123]

All you people still writing about Williams are ridiculous. Give Trinity their flowers, Williams got lucky when Trinity handed them a win with their worst 5 minutes of play all season. This trinity team deserves all the nescac love this year.

[toad22]

I'm not sure what Bantam is referring to in the above comment. I am an Eph fan. Naturally I write more about Williams than Trinity. We rely on Trinity to highlight the Bantams. I'm glad that Bantam123 is doing that. However, it is Monday morning quarterbacking to suggest that Williams did't win that Trinity game with excellent play down the stretch. Did Trinity's mistakes aid our cause? Sure. That always happens when a team comes from behind to win.
This is the best Trinity team I have seen in 30 years. I hope they win it all. They will not, however, ever be the undefeated team that won the national championship no matter how hard Bantam tries to make it so.

[nescac1]

What's ridiculous is when your FIRST EVER post on this site is to complain, only AFTER Trinity has reached the Final Four for the first time in exactly 30 years, that Trinity isn't discussed enough on this site.  Come on, dude, where have you been when you could have been writing about Trinity since October, let alone prior years?  Also, the preceding five posts were all about Trinity!  Act like you've been there before.  And yes, Williams deserved to win that game -- and also played Trinity even for most of the NESCAC title game, other than, cough, five bad minutes for Williams.

But back to Trinity, if Trinity wins even one more game, and certainly with a national title, I'd put them in elite company with the best NESCAC teams of the NCAA era - 2003, 2004, and 2010 Williams, 2011 Middlebury, and 2007 and 2013 Amherst.  The 2024 Trinity season is right there with all of those teams, which save for Middlebury at least made it to a national title game, and all had similarly gaudy records.  As for Middlebury, that was a dominant two-loss team which lost in the national semis in the closing seconds to a loaded St. Thomas team that absolutely cruised in the national title game, and 2011 was a STACKED season in NESCAC (Williams made the final four and Amherst the Elite 8).  Trinity certainly played the weakest schedule of all those teams, but they also dominated nearly every game, and have cruised through the tourney impressively so far.   I have a feeling they end up playing Hampden-Sydney for the title in what would be an epic showdown between two teams who are absolutely rolling right now. 

In addition to elite defense, Trinity's superb ball-handling has been key to its success. Nine total turnovers over the last  three tourney games is simply crazy. They play two legit lead guards in both their starting five and their bench mob, and their front court players are all capable ball-handlers to boot - an advantage of having guys who are smaller but can guard up.  As we've seen again and again (and as Amherst fans are fond of pointing out), it's better to have skill, speed and shooting than it is to have size (of course, if you have both, all the better, but in D3 you generally have to choose). 

The emergency of Tristan Davis is definitely scary for the rest of the league.  If Callahan-Gold returns for a COVID year, Trinity is likely pre-season number one, certainly no lower than the top five.  Even if he doesn't, Trinity is at worst a top 10 team heading into next year, and I think Tufts is right around that range as well.  Williams is a much bigger mystery since so many guys are leaving and also returning from injuries.  And with Wesleyan, Hamilton, and Amherst all returning basically their entire rotations from this year's squads, NESCAC could be scary good next year.   

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I will agree Trinity did more to lose than game than Williams did to win it.  That doesn't mean Williams didn't deserve the win.  Stuff like that happens.  We saw it on Saturday.

[D3BBALL]

I agree, Williams made 2 threes and fouled on a 3rd, all in the last minute of the game. Williams didn't give up and Trinity didn't play smart, some bad coaching, all part of the game. Williams deserved to win that game.

And Williams played them pretty even in the finals, 3 point game with 4 minutes to go. To say Williams didn't belong is not accurate.

Trinity did play a weak conference schedule but as pointed out above pretty much blew everyone away and beat St Joes a very good team. So yes there was some reason to be a little unsure of them, but since the Williams lost they have stepped it up.

There has been plenty of good things said about them here as well, and even some before the NCAA had them going a long way. I think the only place to complained is to the NCAA committee. They didn't really handle their bracket very well, Trinity as a 3 seed with 4-5 top 10 teams (using any metrics) and 7-8 top twenty teams in 1 bracket Committee didn't show any love toward them, but you could say that about John Carroll, NYU, RM and Calvin as well.

Go Bants!!!

[Bantam123]

Didn't know about this discord until recently. I guess more people here are Eph's fans so I get it. I guess Trinity just needs more active fans here.