MBB: NESCAC

[toad22]

I also want to make some comments about the NYU tournament. It was fun being in the Big Apple watching D3 basketball at the most overwhelming D3 athletic facility I have ever seen. Somebody attached to the school told me it cost $1.3 billion to build. I have no idea if this number is correct, but the facility sure is impressive. I don't understand how NYU has that kind of money to spend on athletics and wellness, since I believe their endowment is $6.7 billion and they have nearly 60,000 students. Anyway, a very impressive building.
It was great to see Steve Phillips and Justin Sosinsky, long time assistants at Williams, and to watch them coach Kenyon. Kenyon has no basketball tradition, so they are building from the ground up. They played very well against Williams, taking us to OT before losing by 3 points. The next day, against SUNY Purchase, they continued their good play and won easily. All of Steve and Justin's many friends in Billtown wish them much good luck. They are both good coaches, great friends, and wonderful men.
Williams has only very rarely played well in holiday tournaments over the many years I have watched them, and this year was no exception. The second game, against NYU was a rout. I think it was a combination of fairly weak play from the Williams side, and very strong play from NYU. If Williams could ever have a team made up nearly entirely of fourth, or fifth year players, all of who had great skills and physicality, honed at different D1, D2, and D3 schools, and playing their final year of college ball at Williams, I would expect to be great, and that is what NYU has this year. It reminds me of that Rowan team in the mid-90s that beat Williams in the sweet 16 game and went on to win the championship. Probably not that good, but still really talented. They are also obviously very well coached. They are certainly a top 5-10 team based on what I saw.
As for Williams, we will do what we always do, forget the holidays even happened, and work hard at getting better. As I have written before, I like this Williams group a lot, and believe we will finish the season as a strong team.

[Stretch4]

Williams and most of the NESCAC schools are loaded with post grad players who spend a 5th year at a prep school and then enroll as Freshman when they are 19 turning 20. So plenty of 23 year olds to be found across the NESCAC rosters despite the absence of graduate programs at most of the schools. I recall seeing both Porter (who unfortunately can't seem to get healthy) and Roughley at events back in the day when they were originally class of 2019 kids. A reclass at a prep school, a COVID year off and now you have a couple of 24 year olds on the roster. So don't know that the age and physical maturity disparity is as great as perceived. Not to take anything away from NYU who has a great team with great players and great coaching, but they take it to the next level with a starting line up age group of 25, 24, 23, 23, and 22 years old. While also having two of their primary bench rotation guys at age 24. Kind of ridiculous in my opinion, but this is where we are at in D3 basketball.

[WUPHF]

I also want to make some comments about the NYU tournament. It was fun being in the Big Apple watching D3 basketball at the most overwhelming D3 athletic facility I have ever seen. Somebody attached to the school told me it cost $1.3 billion to build. I have no idea if this number is correct, but the facility sure is impressive. I don't understand how NYU has that kind of money to spend on athletics and wellness, since I believe their endowment is $6.7 billion and they have nearly 60,000 students. Anyway, a very impressive building.

NYU began construction on the Paulson Center in the Spring 2016 and did not open until the Spring 2023.  For a building in Manhattan, constructed over the course of 7 years, $1.3 billion seems light.

Keep in mind that the building is a classroom, dining, housing, social, and cultural space, in addition to athletics and wellness.

[lumbercat]

On a side note, I always love seeing these Williams posts. I swear the game stories all sound so similar even going back to 2019. Always some injuries, always some drama, and about 25% of the time are these boards satisfied by the Ephs level of play. It's awesome

I have no idea what the above quote means. Are Williams posters too tough on their team? Do they need to be more rah rah about Williams? Are they letting the team off the hook too easily, making excuses - "Always some injuries"? I really don't understand with this post means other than it sounds vaguely derogatory toward Williams posters, and maybe the team.

The latter

[D3BBALL]

Monday seemed like a number of teams were off. Emory barely beat Union at home and Union is not a great. Terrible loss by Williams, bad loss by Tufts. Middlebury losing to Brandies is not a surprise, Brandies had some big wins last year in the UAA and they have talent but lack consistency. I'm not down on Middlebury, wouldn't consider any of those 3 losses bad losses.

Will be interesting as stated by Nescac, if Williams can get it together in conference play. They have looked bad at times, injuries aside, Roughly and Hansen have not played to expectations. Lee has played well, but they don't have a Karren or Smith and Lee can't do it alone. They are not tough enough. Stating this, some of these same issues were there last year during non-conference play and they went out and won the regular season and went to the championship game in conference play and sweet 16 in NCAA. 

Tufts as I and others have said, will come down to their guard play, when it is not good they can get beat by average teams, when good they are top 10 in the country caliber.

Trinity, even when the don't play well and their first half offensively against Geneseo was bad and then they blew them out in the 2nd half. Didn't expect Suffolk to beat WPI, but WPI has no inside game and if their guards aren't scoring they are in trouble. Suffolk gave Trinity some trouble, but in the last 10 minutes they shut down robertson. Verdile from Suffolk can shoot, shooting 50% from 3 for the season. Speaking of shooters Trinity's Berry if he was on any other team in the NESCAC, he would be talked about for all conference. The kid can just flat out score from all levels. D3datacast made a good point about Trinity's schedule, they get Williams, Middlebury, Tufts and Wesleyan at home. This team can play defense. They have babson at babson Saturday, should be a telling game.

NESCAC may not be getting 4 teams in NCAA, will be interesting to see what does happen.

[jumbomumbo]

On a side note, I always love seeing these Williams posts. I swear the game stories all sound so similar even going back to 2019. Always some injuries, always some drama, and about 25% of the time are these boards satisfied by the Ephs level of play. It's awesome

I have no idea what the above quote means. Are Williams posters too tough on their team? Do they need to be more rah rah about Williams? Are they letting the team off the hook too easily, making excuses - "Always some injuries"? I really don't understand with this post means other than it sounds vaguely derogatory toward Williams posters, and maybe the team.

Don't mean it to be derogatory, just pointing out that all the posts about Williams seem to be quite similar in nature. And by no means am I rooting for injuries for anyone. Just love some friendly competition

[el_jefe_90]

A little 2024 recap. Tough to rank teams at this point, so I came up with my own system! This is just going by records as shown on the NESCAC website.

Trinity (11-0): Best Team - Until proven otherwise, I think we can all agree that Trinity is the top team in the conference. Everything clicking for the Bantams so far.

Wesleyan (12-0): Biggest Surprise - While I believe the general consensus was that Wesleyan would be better, I don't think any of us thought 12-0 with 11 double digit victories was on the horizon. Top 10 in scoring defense and PPG allowed and a +11 RPG margin for a team with one starter taller than 6'4" is impressive.

Hamilton (9-1): Show Me More - Great start for the Continentals but they haven't faced a real contender yet other than Stockton (their only loss). Morgan has been great and Singh has been effective despite not being able to consistently find his shot yet. They'll need Keyhani to step up. Hosting Wesleyan and Trinity on 1/17 and 1/18 will show if they're for real or not.

Tufts (10-2): Contender with Flaws - Probably the top contender to dethrone Trinity, if not 2nd contenders. Gyimesi a NESCAC POTY candidate and Morakis has had a huge uptick in offensive production. One trip-up against WPI but a bad recent loss to Nichols. They still struggle shooting from the outside (33% from three). Wouldn't mind seeing Bernstein's average go to 11-12ppg.

Amherst (9-3): Breakthrough? - All 12 of their contests have been decided by double digits. Defense currently one of the best in the country. If Ryker Vance can stay healthy and keep producing at the 9-10ppg area, they could have a legitimate offense for the first time in a few years. Currently sport three guys at +40% 3FG (Chris Hammond, CJ Mitchell and Bobby Sommers). One thing not on their side is they only have 4 more games left at home.

Bowdoin (8-3): Surprise Dark Horse for Home Seed? - Bowdoin has won 8 games against meh teams. One surprising loss at Bates but two competitive losses against two very good teams. The 4th seed is certainly up for grabs. Can their top notch field goal percentage defense carry them to that?

Colby (7-3): Fun to Watch - When the Mules offense is churning, it looks really good. Poulton putting up big numbers and is certainly in line to be a NESCAC 1st Team selection. Not many teams have two legit centers who can score. Their wins haven't been against earth shattering opponents. Their losses have been against good teams. Not great on the defensive side. They're certainly another team who could slide in to a home seed and make some noise in the NESCAC.

Williams (7-3): No Man's Land - The Ephs defense has been mostly solid all year, their norm in recent years. Alex Lee has been good. Jackson Rein has looked like a future star in this league at times. The problem boils down to offense. With their starting lineup against NYU, there's only one legitimate three point threat and there's inconsistency on the inside. Then there's the curious case of Declan Porter. 572 points his first 2 years. Outside of 8 minutes last year, he hasn't played in 22 months. I can see this Williams team either getting a home game in the NESCAC Tournament, or not even making the tournament all together. Their first three conference games are crucial to see where the season goes.

Middlebury (6-3): Good Luck Bad Luck - Six straight wins against some decent competition (good luck) followed by 3 straight losses to the UAA (bad luck). Sam Stevens has had 4 games over 50% shooting (good luck) with 5 games under 36% shooting (bad luck). Tristan Joseph has two explosive games then gets hurt. Kuba Cwalina steps in with some big games in his absence. Joseph comes back and Cwalina gets hurt. Hopefully they can get and stay healthy so we can see their full potential.

Conn College (7-5): Chuck 'Em Up - They lead the NESCAC in 3PT Attempts (339, 28.2 per game) but they are second to last in percentage (32.4%). Their zone can certainly be effective and they shot the ball very well in the USJ tournament. Not high on the Camels, but we'll see!

Bates (5-5): Hold the Phone! - After losing their first 4, they've gone 5-1 with a nice win over Bowdoin, a great win over Rochester and a solid win over St. Joes (ME). I don't see them making the NESCAC Tournament, but they can certainly play spoiler to someone!

[jumbomumbo]

A little 2024 recap. Tough to rank teams at this point, so I came up with my own system! This is just going by records as shown on the NESCAC website.

Trinity (11-0): Best Team - Until proven otherwise, I think we can all agree that Trinity is the top team in the conference. Everything clicking for the Bantams so far.

Wesleyan (12-0): Biggest Surprise - While I believe the general consensus was that Wesleyan would be better, I don't think any of us thought 12-0 with 11 double digit victories was on the horizon. Top 10 in scoring defense and PPG allowed and a +11 RPG margin for a team with one starter taller than 6'4" is impressive.

Hamilton (9-1): Show Me More - Great start for the Continentals but they haven't faced a real contender yet other than Stockton (their only loss). Morgan has been great and Singh has been effective despite not being able to consistently find his shot yet. They'll need Keyhani to step up. Hosting Wesleyan and Trinity on 1/17 and 1/18 will show if they're for real or not.

Tufts (10-2): Contender with Flaws - Probably the top contender to dethrone Trinity, if not 2nd contenders. Gyimesi a NESCAC POTY candidate and Morakis has had a huge uptick in offensive production. One trip-up against WPI but a bad recent loss to Nichols. They still struggle shooting from the outside (33% from three). Wouldn't mind seeing Bernstein's average go to 11-12ppg.

Amherst (9-3): Breakthrough? - All 12 of their contests have been decided by double digits. Defense currently one of the best in the country. If Ryker Vance can stay healthy and keep producing at the 9-10ppg area, they could have a legitimate offense for the first time in a few years. Currently sport three guys at +40% 3FG (Chris Hammond, CJ Mitchell and Bobby Sommers). One thing not on their side is they only have 4 more games left at home.

Bowdoin (8-3): Surprise Dark Horse for Home Seed? - Bowdoin has won 8 games against meh teams. One surprising loss at Bates but two competitive losses against two very good teams. The 4th seed is certainly up for grabs. Can their top notch field goal percentage defense carry them to that?

Colby (7-3): Fun to Watch - When the Mules offense is churning, it looks really good. Poulton putting up big numbers and is certainly in line to be a NESCAC 1st Team selection. Not many teams have two legit centers who can score. Their wins haven't been against earth shattering opponents. Their losses have been against good teams. Not great on the defensive side. They're certainly another team who could slide in to a home seed and make some noise in the NESCAC.

Williams (7-3): No Man's Land - The Ephs defense has been mostly solid all year, their norm in recent years. Alex Lee has been good. Jackson Rein has looked like a future star in this league at times. The problem boils down to offense. With their starting lineup against NYU, there's only one legitimate three point threat and there's inconsistency on the inside. Then there's the curious case of Declan Porter. 572 points his first 2 years. Outside of 8 minutes last year, he hasn't played in 22 months. I can see this Williams team either getting a home game in the NESCAC Tournament, or not even making the tournament all together. Their first three conference games are crucial to see where the season goes.

Middlebury (6-3): Good Luck Bad Luck - Six straight wins against some decent competition (good luck) followed by 3 straight losses to the UAA (bad luck). Sam Stevens has had 4 games over 50% shooting (good luck) with 5 games under 36% shooting (bad luck). Tristan Joseph has two explosive games then gets hurt. Kuba Cwalina steps in with some big games in his absence. Joseph comes back and Cwalina gets hurt. Hopefully they can get and stay healthy so we can see their full potential.

Conn College (7-5): Chuck 'Em Up - They lead the NESCAC in 3PT Attempts (339, 28.2 per game) but they are second to last in percentage (32.4%). Their zone can certainly be effective and they shot the ball very well in the USJ tournament. Not high on the Camels, but we'll see!

Bates (5-5): Hold the Phone! - After losing their first 4, they've gone 5-1 with a nice win over Bowdoin, a great win over Rochester and a solid win over St. Joes (ME). I don't see them making the NESCAC Tournament, but they can certainly play spoiler to someone!

Bernstein must've been reading these baords, as he just cashed in a 20 and 15 night in a 82-74 win on the road against Yeshiva. Jumbos heading down to Philly now where they'll face Widener for the first time since the Round of 64 matchup in 2023, where the Jumbos won 78-66.

[el_jefe_90]

While I know I had nothing to do with it, I'll take all the credit for his big night haha!

[SpringSt7]

Weird discourse on Williams these past few days. First of all, they got blown out by NYU. I can't remember the last time they lost a non NESCAC game in that fashion, regardless of where they were at as a group in maybe 10 years. The 2020 team went 13-12 and their worst loss was by 13 points in the non conference. So it's been a while.

Secondly, and mainly, this is a program that went to 8 Final Fours in 20 years, has made the tournament in 6 of the last 7, and sets the bar higher right now for consistent year in and year out play than any other school in the league. This year they have a really clunky offense coming off a year with a similarly clunky offense, and they have looked like Final Four contenders for like 3 total weeks in about 6 years. Do most Williams fans think they can still go 19-6 and make a run for the league title? Of course! App is a great coach who has proven time and time again that he can get the most out of a group and they have made the semis of the league tournament every year but one since 2016, a much higher number than every other team in the league. If judging a team according to those standards is harsh and overly critical than so be it, I guess.

App is a great coach, they have some pieces to work with that are top 15 ish players in the league, you know the defense will be good, and if one of the injured shooters can come back and help them out, then who knows. They have 6 home league games and Massey has them favored in 5 of them and at 49% to beat Tufts (not a metric I would live and die by but a metric nonetheless). It is hard to see them not starting 0-2 as they are at Trinity and Wesleyan so that will be another obstacle but they have Worcester St. tomorrow and Springfield at home on Monday to hopefully get some confidence and rhythm back.

If they have a down year then so what, we'll still watch all the games and root for them all the same, when they play well we'll talk about what they did well and when they don't we'll talk about why they didn't. That's part of being a sports fan

[SpringSt7]

My take on brief power rankings heading into league play.

1. Trinity - would've liked to have seen them play some better competition but have allowed 60 or more points twice. Defense is elite and they have shown well against the better teams they've seen to edge Wesleyan.

2. Wesleyan - Schedule a little weaker than I realized and worry about their offense big picture (we are grading on a curve here, mind you) heading into league play but still clearly above the rest of the teams in the league. Could put them at #1 if you felt strongly that Williams was a tournament team but otherwise lack awesome wins as well.

3. Tufts - Nichols was a bump in the road but they have the best win in the league noncon (Keene St.) and other good wins against Rochester and Brandeis and a host of other top 100-125 ish teams. Really like their depth and personnel but shooting woes will be held up to a microscope in league.

4. Hamilton - overall schedule and quality of wins was a little better than I realized, plus bonus points for heading out to Washington state for two road wins - not all road games are created equal. Worry about lack of elite offense or elite defense against the teams above them, they obviously have nice players but will see some real physicality soon.

5. Williams - easy to forget despite the woes that all 3 losses are to presumptive tournament teams and clearly still haven't found their best selves yet (although you could say that about any college team in January). Wish they had some better wins but non con schedule grades out sliiiiiightly tougher than you might expect.

6. Middlebury - feels like forever ago that they beat St. Joe's, who has not been the St. Joe's of old, but they lost to 3 good teams. Need to get healthy

7. Amherst - Not buying the hype, bias aside. Sears doesn't get the benefit of the doubt just yet, the defense is always elite but the offense goes into stall mode come January and February. Scored 45 points against Lynchburg and lost by double digits to a 4-7 Albertus Magnus.

8. Colby - Bias included, wanted to put them above Amherst but they have truly beaten nobody and even had some real close calls against some bad teams. On the flip side, a bit of an eye of the beholder situation because all 3 losses were also to very good teams and some nationally elite ones. Might have the widest range of outcomes for league play.

9. Conn College - Righted the ship a little bit after break, overall record is not awesome but really only have one bad loss to Coast Guard. And I always think the zone is good for stealing one league game a year.

10. Bowdoin - Schedule has been real bad and they lost to Bates. Hung tough against Carnegie and Emory so maybe a little harsh below Conn but that's where they end up.

11. Bates - Nice bounce back as of late but still last when you take into consideration the entire body of work. Only team in the league with a negative point differential and 5.5 points away from 10th. Marc Begin is either hurt or away from the team but the Ewing Theory Committee has him squarely in their sights so maybe they keep the arrow heading in the same direction

[el_jefe_90]

Never any disrespect to any NESCAC teams. It's all my opinion which in the end, it's fun discourse! And it's why I'm on the message boards and not the court  .

Personally, my take on Williams in the "No Man's Land" is no one knows who they truly are yet. They haven't been whole this season and, frankly, haven't been whole the last two years. Will Declan Porter see the floor again? How will Ben McGraw come back after being out a year plus? If these guys come back, will the offense get a boost and who gets less playing time? Can one of the first years make a bigger impact? I think all those questions are why they are in limbo.

Of course like last year, they could go on a run of winning 14 of 16 (correct me if I'm wrong) and reaching the Sweet 16. I can also see them losing their first 3 NESCAC games of the season, losing the last two at Hamilton and Amherst and getting tripped up somewhere in between (maybe vs. Middlebury or Colby) and not making the tournament or getting a low seed. It's why this conference is one of the best in the country.

I don't think anyone doubts Coach App's ability. He's a top notch coach and one of the best in this league that's filled with plenty. The Williams defense has been elite since he's been at the helm and will more than likely continue to be. I always hope the NESCAC coaches stay for a long time but wouldn't be surprised if he ever got a shot at a higher level job.

Here's to a fun and competitive 2025 portion of the year!

[SpringSt7]

Misc. musings from today's games

-Massive game for Edward Witherington in Midd's win against Stevens - first start of the year, 23 pts and 11 rebounds on 9-10 shooting. Someone I've been super high on, now appears to be fully healthy, averaging 10/4 and shooting 52% from three on the year. Major ceiling raiser for Midd and also good to see Cwalina in the box score

-What the heck is going on with Garret Keyhani? Took just two shots today for Hamilton - last year he took 5 threes a game and this year he is taking about 1.5, would love some context from Hamilton fans on what is going on

-Good win for Bowdoin against an undermanned Emerson team. Don't see 13 guys in the box score all playing double digit minutes very often. They have 10 guys averaging between 10-27 minutes on the year. Also, they play at Harvard on Sunday which I find very strange this late in the year and given that it affects their practice schedule leading up to league play. But cool for them I suppose

[nescac1]

Certainly the biggest non-conference day of the year for NESCAC today, with lots of opportunities for teams at the top to build up already-strong Pool C resumes heading into league play.  I'm going by NPI here - https://d3datacast.com/npi/ -  which is the only data that seems to matter this year:

Number 9 Hamilton v. Number 36 York (PA) (York, usually a very solid team, has been hot with huge wins over Stockton and Oswego in recent weeks, and this gives Hamilton a chance for a big win heading into league play)

Number 10 Trinity v. Number 29 Babson (this is a really intriguing match-up, as Babson has the talent to play with anyone and seems to play to the level of its competition, and comes into this one with three straight wins including upsets of top-12 WPI and Wooster teams.  Vetter and Okorougo vs. Kloman and Amado is as good a wing match up as you will see in D3; and after a slow start, former Eph Alex Stoddard has found his footing and has been key to Babson's improved play). 

Number 11 Wesleyan v. Number 64 Amherst (while that seems to be a mismatch, and I do expect Wesleyan to win, weird things have happened in these Amherst-Wesleyan games for years now, and the last seven games between these two rivals have been decided by single-digits regardless of some on-paper mismatches, including two that went to OT)

Number 47 Middlebury v. Number 107 St. Joseph Maine (while Midd is clearly favored, St. Joe's has four guys who can score - although Midd has a big size advantage and Brennan might go nuts on the offensive boards in this one)

Number 139 Conn College v. Number 39 Keene State (a chance for Conn to pick up a big upset and move, likely, into the top 100)

In addition, Williams and Tufts play, respectively, Worcester State and Widener in must-win games against teams who are way down from last season.  Williams really has to find its offensive groove in its last two non-league games this weekend, as it has an absolutely brutal start to league play coming up: at Trinity and Wesleyan, and vs. Tufts.  The Ephs could be just about out of the Pool C picture entirely (if they lose those three games vs. favored NESCAC teams, I can't imagine a path to the post-season outside of an improbably league title run), but also have a chance to re-establish themselves as a NESCAC contender, depending on how the next few weeks go. 

[amh70]

Infrequent poster. An Amherst alum , played football in the late 60s. Just a comment  on their current state. I tried watching the Wesleyan game today but had to leave, just horribly outcoached, out recruited. out everythinged by Wesleyan. Time for a coaching change? I know w that isn't normalcy in NESCAC but really? They're 9-3 but have some bad losses to bad teams. They'll be lucky to win 5 NESCAC games.