MBB: NESCAC

[walzy31]

nescac 1,

agree with your top 3 teams pretty much. that's why naming them now is silly (many combinations are satisfactory).

rhoten has to be favored for poy simply because of his numbers, trinity being a top 3 team, and that he was runner up last year. it will be interesting to see if bedford can pull an upset there. i hope he can. either way the award is going to Ridgewood, NJ. (other than Halas, maybe some of you didn't know that)

[JeffRookie2]

if anyone is interested in listening, the Amherst-Emmanuel game will be webcast tonight on Amherst's radio station. To listen, click on the link at www.amherst.edu/~wamh. i think there is also a link on www.amherst.edu/sports

1st team:C-Martin PF-Rhoten SF-Petrie PG-Olson SG-Bedford
2nd team-C-Cohen PF-Stone SF-Stockwell Backcourt (this is cleary a cop-out so I can name 2 PGs)- Ray, Rose
in the running: Wietzen, Wheeler, Shalvoy, Clarke, Ashe, Casnocha, Jenkins, Shepard (in order of their occuring to me)

[walzy31]

Amherst 99 - Emmanuel 69

TIM MCLAUGHLIN. Wow. Kid had 6 steals in the first half. Then finished with 14 points, 8 boards and 6 steals. Played possessed. Adolphe FINALLY dunked, and it was a beauty. Two handed tomahawk on a fast break. Oh yea, and some guy named John Bedford scored 23 points in 23 minutes on 7-9 shooting (3-3 3pt and 6-6ft).
Coach Paulsen in attendence. I think he left the gym with about 10 minutes to go after he wet himself.

Emmanuel committed 30 fouls and shot 39% from the floor compared to Amherst's 51.6%.

Olson had 11 and 6. The ref decided to call fouls on Casnocha tonight as opposed to Wheeler on Saturday. Literally got credited for a foul on a play where he was on the other side of half court.

Must improve: This one is a little too obvious. Free Throw Shooting. 29-46(63%). Missing 17 free throws and winning by 30 is good. But if we miss 17 freebies against Williams we will only win by 22.

[formerbant10]

Great game for McLaughlin, he might be their X factor this year. 
Walzy, wondering if Adolphe did anything else besides the dunk?  Or is that all Amherst is looking for out of him this year?
Getting 46 FT attempts is unreal, I don't think anyone from Amherst can complain about the fouls if they attempted that many FT's.  And I'm sure that some of those fouls were trash....but that's part of the game.

JeffRookie, I might have to sub Weitzen for Stone on that 2nd team. 

Quite a few players gunning for only 10 all conference spots this year.  Seems like the last few years were a little more clear cut, even in December.  We've all been saying that the NESCAC might be down, but it's pretty interesting that there are nearly 20 guys who can be seriously considered for all conference at this point.

[baller i b]

FormerBant10,

Weitzen is the toughest matchup in the league. As the baller i b, b serious. Unarguably, Kyle Petrie is the toughest player to guard. He is inside, outside, slashing and crashing. He can shoot the three and play with his back to the basket, great rebounder and shot blocker, too quick for big men, too big for small men, arguably too fast and too ferious for his own good...look at his stats.

Weitzen may be the "most likely not to get picked in a pickup game" seeing that he looks like he has never hoop'd in his life, but he  is somehow effective, however, that does not constitute you naming him the toughest matchup in the league

[Midd Range]

If it's Tufts year, somebody has to explain that 30 point loss to Plymouth St.

[nescachoopsfan]

tufts played awful and plymouth didnt miss much.  plymouth shot 68% from the field and tufts didnt show up.  Although a great team shouldnt get killed like that by anyone, i think it is understandable for a team to have an off night, and when you play a team in their gym and they shoot 68%, its tough to keep it a close game (and a bunch of those shots were 3's).  I saw petrie play against tufts last year, and i was unimpressed, and especially hearing all the hype now, i am extremly unimpressed.  He takes crazy shots and when playing against a guy like taylor from trinity or kumf from tufts or bedford from amherst, i dont think petrie has much of an advantage.  From your description weitzen is quite similar except he shoots a much higher percentage and is averaging 20 mins a game!  Avging over 17 pts a game in 20 mins while shooting over 40% is not bad.  Especially when he will dish it out against clark he had 7 assists.  Im not going to say hes unstoppable, but he is truely too big for any guard and deceptively quick for any big man.  and strokes the 3 also.  Tufts is the most balanced attack other than amherst.  Cant key in on any one player to guarantee a win.  martin weitzen shepherd okeefe kumf and black can all have 20 pt games any given night.  Just a very underrated team in my opinion, although people are starting to give them credit

[Voyeur]

Would Tufts be considered under or overrated when Amherst rolled into town last year for the game to decide the top seed in NESCACs?  Either way you call that Tufts team, the 40 point drubbing makes a statement about Tufts credibility.  I was not at the game but I can only imagine what it must have looked like.  When Amherst gets up for a game, they are unrivaled in the entire Northeast and maybe the country.  Maybe Tufts can sneak into the NCAA with an at large bid but I dont see them making much of a game when the moneys on the line.

[formerbant10]

Baller, Petrie is a very good player....but not the toughest matchup.  Trust me on that one.  Weitzen is just as good an outside shooter, and is tougher to guard in the post.  Petrie is a better ball handler and defender, but as I remember was not a great outside shooter.  He was more likely to drive to the hoop and spin back to the middle for the layup.  His next favorite move was to post up and take a quickly released fadeaway.  Both very effective moves. 

Nescachoopsfan, the only thing is that Taylor didn't guard Petrie in their game.  Taylor was hurt most of last year, so he wasn't always given the toughest assignments.

And let's be honest, Rhoten is still the toughest matchup in the NESCAC and has been one of them for all four of his years.  1,800+ points and counting, no one else is even close to that right now.

Voyeur, the thing you have to remember about that Amherst game is that Tufts had just played a very tough game the night before beating Trinity.  Tie game at halftime, then Tufts turned it on hitting some big 3's in the 2nd half and really playing solid D on Trinity's best players.
The tough part of the Amherst/Trinity weekend is usually the 2nd game.  Amherst did not have as tough a game as Tufts did and was able to roll through them.  And you're right, until someone beats Amherst when it counts, they're still the top dog in the NE.

[cbone]

formerbant, I know that you know a tremendous amount about the talent in the NESCAC, but there is one thing that you guys are missing when making these first and secnd team lists. If Weitzen , Petrie, or Taylor played in a system like Amhersts' they would not put up numbers remotely near Bedford. These guys are good to average players on teams that are desperate for scoring threats. Amherst has so many options that Bedford would be hurting the team by firing up the number and quality of shots that other players in the league take. While i dont know the exact numbers, I thought that I saw that Rhoten scored 22 points on 21 shots in one game and 24 points on 26 shots in another. Tonight Bedford scored 23 points on 12 shots. That is the sign of a good player, he gets his points on nearly half the shots.  It would be scary to see what Wheeler and mostly  Bedford would do if every play was run for him and he had the green light every posession.

[baller i b]

It is very hard to argue that Ty Rhoten is the best player in the league with his extremely impressive numbers, NESCAC hoops fan is way off...

I was at the Tufts game last year and Petrie did have tough game, even so, he had 20 pts, which just shows you how bad nights can lead to good stats...

Lets not forget the tufts game 2 years before when he had a triple double and they lost cuz he had no help, and the game the year before when Bowdoin demolished Tufts as a much better team.

The toughest 4 mactchups in the NESCAC are Rhoten, Stockwell, Petrie, Bedford, everyone else is secondary.  No one can really stop any of them and they do what they do regardless of the competetion.

To put Weitzen, although he is extremely talented, in the same league with them is ridiculous, he doesn't even start and has only been good for less than a full season...

[baller i b]

I meant 2 say it is hard 2 argue that Rhoten is NOT the best player...

and don't confused, just because someone plays ona better team does not mean they're better, Bedford is great but having other weapons just frees him up more and lets him get better looks on every possession. 

Guys like Rhoten who are keyed on are that much more impressive when they put up numbers, cuz the scouting reports don't the players to stop OTHER guys,

Bedford has only been the best player on his team for 7 games, don't think that    that doesn't make a difference, cuz it does....
being keyed on can totally shut down a guys offensive night, in the case of Rhoten and Martin or guys like them, it hasn't seemed 2 make a difference.

[Voyeur]

Baller, weren't you the one who said that Tufts has so many tools?  And I don't think Martin has been a stud at all until the beginning of this season so I doubt that teams are keying on him.  It's one thing to have other players on your team to get easier shots, but having other able players also means that you have to give up a lot of other shots.  Although both Tufts and Trinity have a good group of players, I think that Bedford would put up equally if not more impressive numbers than Rhoten or Cohen in another program. 
All the games I have seen, there does not seem to be a focal point in the Amherst offense.  If Bedford was getting 2 or 3 screens a series to get him 20 something shots a game, I guarantee you he'd be averaging somewhere around 24 a game.  There's a reason he was originally recruited to go to Davidson, and there's a reason why he's a better all around player.  Have you seen Rhoten play defense?  Yea I dont think the rest of the conference has either.

[formerbant10]

I'm gonna have to agree with Baller on this one.  Rhoten gets doubled and triple teamed when he gets the ball.  No one else in the league has to deal with that night in and night out.  Rhoten still shoots over 50% from the field.  His points per shot would go up if he got to the line more...something he needs to do a little more.

Cbone, Bedford is no doubt a great offensive player.  But his stats in a game versus Emmanuel are going to be a little misleading.  A good player better be able to score that efficiently against such a poor team. 

Voyeur, As for Rhoten's defense, he is usually on the worse of the two post players in the game.  His job is more to get defensive rebounds and run the break...which he does better than every big man in the league.  Bedford, last year at least I haven't seen a game this year, was on the #2 perimeter threat.  He was also counted on to get defensive rebounds and ended up leading Amherst in rpg's.  Neither of them are known for their stellar defense.

I know that Bedford is a very good player, part of what makes him good is his shot selection.  You're correct in saying that it would hurt Amherst if he put up 20 shots a game.  And I'm sure Bedford could average around 20 a game if he took that many shots, but could he do it while being double and triple teamed every possession?  And to be quite honest, I'm sure if you asked Bedford what he'd rather do: A) Average over 20 points a game for his career or B) Win the NESCAC championship multiple times, make the NCAA's every year and get to a Final Four......I'm pretty sure he'd choose the latter.

Congrats to Drew Cohen for getting player of the week.

[walzy31]

Stockwell at Bates also creates a lot of matchup probelms.

I was at the Tufts Amherst game last year and it was a joke. Yes Amherst was up for it and pressed all game despite playing their starters for 30+ minutes the night before in a close one (until the final 3 minutes) with Bates at Lewiston.
Was not impressed with Stovell. Was not impressed with Kumf or Shepherd. Weitzen hit two threes I think because I was laughing at how terrible of a basketball player he looks like. Can't argue with his production though.

I think Middlebury and Tufts will both receive similar drubbings from Amherst this year. Both by 25+ just like last year.