MBB: NESCAC

[dman]

congrats to amherst on a great, great season.  from my perspective, it looks like nescac can compete with the rest of the country, and belongs in the discussion with the top conferences.   there was a time, when i didn't think so,  but times have definitely changed.  

walzy,

alot of people (and i mean alot) hate nescac.....

[Pat Coleman]

How does someone get 1st team All American from the coaches and then the d3hoops.com committee not honor them for anything? Bias?
Why's eveyone hatin' on NESCAC? We've sent 4 teams to the final four over the past 4 years.

Walzy:

Considering the flawed way in which the NABC concocts its All-America team, we pay it no heed whatsoever.

This precious NABC team gives the East as many All-American slots as the Northeast, even though it has barely more than half the teams. Why is that? Why is it not possible that the second-best player in the Northeast is better than the best in the East? Why wasn't Dan Russ on this NABC team, or Adam Dauksas or Keelan Amelianovich? Why are there eight players on each team -- isn't basketball five on five?

I could go on but those are just the complaints I heard from people in Salem. I don't have a copy of the team in front of me and it is not on the NABC web site yet.

[Pat Coleman]

Pat,

I know Bedford and Rhoten play different positions, but if you'd like to be technical about it Rhoten was Trinity's center this year.  You could have put him in any of those spots as well and there would've been no argument against it. 

Bedford and McGarvey were in competition with each other, and I disagree with where they ended up as well.  I know I have a NE bias, but to me leaving a 2 Time Josten's Trophy Finalist off any of the 10 spots designated for Forwards is wrong. 

Again, I'm sure it would've helped if they had a better season, but All American teams are for personal achievements and there are very few players who deserve the credit that Rhoten does....in any region.

Well, Bedford and McGarvey may both be guards but they're hardly playing the same position. We like to make sure we get some point guards on the teams as well as shooting guards, since shooting guards put up the more glamorous numbers and can sometimes overshadow the 1s.

McGarvey was the second-best point guard in the nation, after Dauksas. He was on the second team. We don't have a 1 and a 2 on every team but we try to whenever possible. Otherwise, who's bringing up the ball?

[formerbant10]

Pat,

First off good point on the NABC, but the Big East had way more than 5 players on their 1st Team....and all were deserving.

McGarvey the 2nd best PG in the nation?  I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on that one.

I don't know if McGarvey would've made All NESCAC.  Personally I'd take Ray and Olson and Pat Martin over him.  Granted I've only seen him play 3 times, but I have never understood why people are so high on him.  Dennis Stanton I completely understand.  Amazing scorer, hands down one of the best I've seen in D3.  The big guys the year before were both very good.  But McGarvey is not on the level of those guys. 

Looking at the Trinity/Ursinus box score a few things jumped out at me.  1)  McGarvey shot terribly (5-18, 3-13 3 PT) and had 6 TO's in a game.  2)  Rhoten is listed as the starting Center for Trinity.  3)  Trinity beat Ursinus at Ursinus which makes me lose faith in just how good McGarvey is.

I know you will now think to Curry beating Trinity at Trinity.  I would to if I was going to argue against Rhoten.  But the fact remains that I've seen McGarvey play just as many times as Olson, Bedford, Ray and Pat Martin and he is the least impressive out of the group.

Again just my opinion, and I don't sponsor an All America team, so it really doesn't matter.

[dman]

personally, i like having more than one all-american team.  d3hoops, nabc, and whoever else, all have their logic for the the way they do things.  i say just keep doing it.....

[Pat Coleman]

Rhoten was nominated as a forward, which is why we considered him with the forwards. But he would have made the centers discussion more difficult. I already had to leave out the East Region POTY and a 2,000-point scorer (Andrew St. Clair) to get five centers in.

[walzy31]

10, get em with the Big East comment.

I literrally saw the NABC award sheet for 10 seconds during the consolation game while I was shooting the breeze with one of the NCAA reps. In retrospect, I should have taken a quick picture of it with my phone...would make a great commercial for a cell phone ("March Sadness").
What I saw was Bedford 3rd team, Rhoten 1st team, and that there was clearly one player from each region represented on the first team. I don't know if Dauksas, Amelianovich, or Daniel Russ was on the NABC lists. I imagine at least one of the Ill Wes guys was (think Peja Stojackovich's twin).

I got more beef with this Dauksas character. He is no doubt a great player who had a poor weekend this weekend. Those two games were the only two games I saw him play and that is what I am judging him on. He is big, fast and pushes the ball well. He also hits his shots in warmups (so do a lot of people). Here's my beef...I am not arguing Pat Martin or Zak Ray or even Olson is better than him (I know right...an Amherst fan saying that a player on another team is better than Bedford, Wheeler or Olson!!!) Dauksas struck me as someone who, on a good day, is pretty nasty. My beef is that there are 400+ schools in D3 basketball...I have to believe that there are some point guards out there who are incredible! More incredible than Dauksas. Those three players should be the PGs getting all american plaudits. Maybe Olson , Ray or Martin becomes one of those incredible PGs next year or the year after (I believe that each of them has the potential). But Dauksas isn't one of the best three PGs in the nation. Nick Pelotte of Plymouth St had to score 62 points in a conference championship game to get recognized 3rd team All American last year...I think he was one of the top 3 PGs in the country last year and deserved that award even though he didnt play for UWSP.
Schiel as one of the best 8 players in the country last year...maybe not. There are some flaws in the NABC aa teams, but Schiel was defintely aa calibur (2nd team in my opinion). But this year the St John Fisher PG Sean O'Brien is first team all american NABC because of the same flaw. He would be the 5th best PG in NESCAC and not even receive any conference recognition if he was in the league.

When Ton Ton hit the three you could see the media ballots for all tournament teams being erased and edited...gotta add this kid in...he just won VWC a national title. I agree. Gotta add him. But d3hoops seemed to take that approach with the all american teams. "Adair, Amelianovich, Bedford, Russ and Dauksas got their teams to the final four...they all need to be all americans."  Give Rhoten, Bedford, D'Auria, Cohen and the rest of the NE some love.

Amelianovich is really good.

Ton Ton Balenga!

[Pat Coleman]

But d3hoops seemed to take that approach with the all american teams. "Adair, Amelianovich, Bedford, Russ and Dauksas got their teams to the final four...they all need to be all americans."  Give Rhoten, Bedford, D'Auria, Cohen and the rest of the NE some love.

They all would have been All-Americans if they hadn't even made the Sweet 16.

[Titan Q]

Walzy31, had you seen Dauksas score 31 @ WIAC champ UW-Whitewater in the regional final or his 26 point, 6 rebound, 13 assist performance vs Puget Sound in the Elite 8 game, you'd probably have a different opinion of Adam.

http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/mbb2006/ncaa02.htm

http://www.iwu.edu/~iwunews/sports/mbb2006/ncaa4.htm

On the season Adam averaged 13.6 ppg, 3.1 rpg, and 6.4 apg with an A/TO ratio of 2.5/1.  Those numbers, especially considering Massey rates IWU's schedule as the toughest in NCAA Division III this year, are awfully good.

Great player who had a rough Final Four.

[Titan Q]

PS  Tell my boy John Bedford to get a better lid than that ugly Cubs thing he was sporting post-game Saturday.  This White Sox fan can get him a much better look.

[GoJumbosOrGoHome]

Pat,
Are the NABC All-Americans out yet? If yes, where could i find them.

[formerbant10]

Titan and all others outside of the NE region,

I've heard great things about Dauksas and Ameelianovich and there's no doubt that they should be All-Americans.  Putting them both on 1st team puts them at the same level as Kalsow and Bennet from Stevens Point and I don't think they are.  Ill. Wesleyan did not win the Championship, SP won it 2 years in a row and that's why those 2 were both 1st teamers. 

That being said, I'm sure if anyone had seen Rhoten average over 20 points a game while being the (most likely) only person to have a Triangle and 2 defense using both free men to guard him then I'm sure you'd have a different opinion.  And one of those times was against a team that has an All American and made the NCAA tourney.  And Trinity beat them on their home court because of Rhoten.

Or maybe if you'd seen him score in double figures for 99 consecutive games and 100 out of his 101 career games you'd have a different opinion.  The only non 10+ point game coming in the 2nd game of his rookie season against a tough Montclair St. team that was in the D3Hoops top 10 for sometime that year.  He ended the game with 9.

Or maybe if you'd seen him carry his team even though he had to use crutches to get around during parts of the season, you'd have a different opinion.

Clearly no one saw him play, which is too bad because he is much better than some of the players on that list.  I'm sure if you ask Bedford if Rhoten was better than some of the players he faced in the Final Four the answer would come back with a resounding YES.

[Knightstalker]

I remember Rhoten from when he played HS ball here in north Jersey.  He was one of the best players on a decent team.  They were a fairly strong Public School program but most of the NJ Public School programs can't compare to the St. Anthonys, St. Patricks and St. Elizabeths in the state.  He was a little slow footed and uncoordinated when I saw him but that was five or six years ago, so I am sure he has matured greatly.

[formerbant10]

Rhoten is now the fastest/quickest and most coordinated of the big men in New England and I'm sure he's up there for the rest of the country.

Gotta have pretty good hands and footwork if Syracuse wants you as a tight end. 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

We all know how good he is, but honestly, he didn't have his beat year.  I think he deserved to make one of the All-America teams, but probably no higher than 4th.

Over the course of the past four years, however, he's got to be right up there with the best.