MBB: NESCAC

[old_hooper]

Here maybe some proof...Wheaton College (IL) just lost to Northwestern (Big Ten ) 41-39.  They had a chance to win it at the buzzer but missed the shot.  Northwestern was 5-2 coming into the game.  Wheaton is picked to finish in the middle of the CCIW.

[Titan Q]

Wheaton/Northwerstern box:

http://nusports.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2006-2007/mb121406.html

[nescac hoops]

just took a look at the box score from salem. jones played 25 minutes. he averaged 23 minutes during the season and 25 in conference games (big games). he played 26 minutes against the ephs in the nescac title game. maybe the jeffs would have liked to have played him 5 minutes more if he didn't break his foot in the salem game. the productivity in those 5 minutes that the jeffs lost to his injury is less than what the ephs lost with coffin being 85-90% at best during the game. in other words, 10-15% of a loss from an all-american is more than 5-10 minutes lost from Jones.

casnocha managed to play 27 minutes in williamstown in the kain game as part of a season where he averaged 18 minutes before getting hurt and was not a starter, though still a loss. schiel wasn't hurt - after he played 17 minutes he was at the foot stand  eating hot dogs and cotton candy and studying for an econ test.

as for the norwestern-wheaton game - that's pretty impressive for wheaton. to hold a good northwestern team (based on ther 6-2 record) to 41 points is really tough. however, they were able to hold northwestern's big men to a combined 16 points. if amherst's "weakest link" is their interior defense (even though they are bigger/taller than every d3 team they play against) then playng against any d1 team that has bigger/stronger players would pose a definite problem for the jeffs. so let's come back to earth on the jeffs being able to steal one or two from the big10 or acc. amen.

[Friar T]

Don't steal my sign off, that's just dumb.

I was using Amherst as a broad generality for the upper tier of DIII. All Wheaton did was show that a non-top tier (refer to old_hooper's post) DIII team could compete with a lower-level major conference team, which only supports my point that a Final Four caliber team could as well. I'm sure that if a ball here-or-there would have bounced a different way, Wheaton would have come out on top. I know, I know, "Ifs and Buts...", but I think you get my point. Sorry if I seemed excessively team specific before.

The Jones vs. Coffin argument needs to end for 2 reasons

A) You're going about it all wrong and I hope your logic makes sense in your head b/c I feel like I'm being talked in circles. Averaged minutes + potential - injury decreased ability / nonsense =

B) It's over. Coffin was hurt, Jones was injured (hurt = you can play, injured = you can't refer to The Program). Williams won, Amherst lost. Blah, blah, blah... We could hypothesize all day and it wouldn't make one bit of progress in the discussion.

Ups
Wheaton
DIII
God
Luck
Coffin & Jones
Cotton Candy
Quigs Mom

Downs
Northwestern (Rep your conference...)
DI
Econ
Quigs Mom (She's versitile... )

Amen.

[BooBallsCasRay]

FRIAR T,

Good to be back after a long hiatus..amherst looks solid this year with bausko spottin trey balls like dana barros, and olsen is looking more and more like pistol pete maravich..would you agree that russell lee is the worst player of all-time amherst history?

[nescac hoops]

well, wheaton is ranked 20th so they are on a top tier though maybe not the highest. i get your point about top tier teams competing against an average d1 team but for that to happen the d3 team needs to be be big and physical and have good "interior" defense to close the gap and what often separates d1 and d3 teams - size and speed. if amherst, as some have said, a little weak on interior defense then i don't think they would be the top tier team to knock off a northwestern type team.

boo, not sure if the russell lee comment was a joke or what. but as a fan of a russell lee opponent i feared him coming into the game more than i ever feared casnocha, olsen as a freshman, donovan, and many other amherst guards with the exception of harper.

[senatorfrost]

This is for NESCAC HOOPS only. Others shouldn't bother. Simply SKIP this post.
I had a post erased (own fault) in which I made an argument that tufts may have been the better team. I also decribed the semi miraculous Casnocha 27 footer with one second remaining on the shot clock. That won the NESCAC Title game.
Anyway you still don't understand. You can't logically talk about the Coffin injury and not mention all the similar injuries on Amherst. That is very bad math.There were (at least) two very painful ones. but they played, just like Coffin. They too could have been theoretically a little better. You on the other hand only want to count Coffin.
Schiel left and I think he missed another game but you assume he was not injured. Casnocha had to play more because Schiel was injured. You do understand that right? Two very lucky games and you are incapable of even saying the possibility exists-I guess there is something in your psyche that makes it impossible. I mean outside of this I have always found you quite rational and reasonably fair.
   It does not bother me to say that Tufts might have been better because the important thing is that Amherst won and went to the final four. Same thing-Amherst may well have been the better team but Williams won. Why you can't at least acknowledge the possibility?? Well I guess something in you needs to have it all.

[senatorfrost]

By the way I agree that Williams usually plays a pretty decent schedule. So why Cal Tech? I think they have won 2-3 games over the past 4-5 years? Something like that.

[The Historian]

I said I'd check the archives on Olson, and I always keep my promises.

His seven assists against poor-Salem-prepper Worcester St., pushed him past Corrigan into second place in the Amherst books.  Olson's currently at 348 in his career.  Faulker is at 498.

Last year Olson set Amherst's single season record with 179, and he's currently at 56 for the season (8 games) while only averaging 26 minutes a game.

Any other NESCACers threatening team or league records this year?  (For the record, I realize that Olson is NOT threatening the NESCAC record for assists, which belongs to Crotty, I believe)

Take a look.  It's in a book.

[BooBallsCasRay]

yeah russell lee could drain the 3ball, although he tended to pull the trigger a little too frequently...

Senator- the casnocha 3ball vs tufts was one of the best shots i have ever seen, and i still am not sure what was more improbable - that, or olsen's buzzer beater in the NCAAs...

honestly, is there anyone out there who can beat amherst this year? who has the best chance to knock off the Lord Jeffreys? despite losing top notch talent in corrigan, casnocha, zalaski, bedford and kessler, amherst has continued to dominate the northeast, and it is looking like they will take the NCAAs this year

historian, was that a reading rainbow reference?

[Friar T]

Did I EVER say Amherst could beat Northwestern? My blanket statement was that Upper DIII could beat Lower to Mid DI. I may have used certain teams and conferences as examples, but never meant anything specific. Sorry for the confusion.

NESCAC, I understand your love for Williams and distaste for the Jeffs, but do you have to try and discredit them at every turn?

Also, have you never seen a smaller, good shooting, quick and deep team topple a squad anchored by good big men? If not, start watching more hoops... The most famous example is the 1983 NCAA Championship game, where the undersized NC State Wolfpack upended the towering Houston Cougars. (That's a good one to watch...)

Russell Lee for Govenor of VA!!! Have you ever seen such a smooth J and charismatic smile? BooBalls... love the Pistol reference, but I was thinking more Steve Nash...

[The Historian]

For that matter, is there a good place to find NESCAC records?  I checked the NESCAC website, but I couldn't find anything other than the Championship record book.  Maybe my research skills are just a little rusty though.

WAR LeVar Burton.

[nescac hoops]

friar,
yes i have seen smaller, faster, better shooting team beat a big team. however, amherst has some quick players but none are noticeably lightning quick like d1 guards. therefore, i don't think they are FASTER. in MY opinion, speed and size separate d1 from d3 teams. therefore, i don't think amherst has the speed or size (size meaning the ability to defend bigger players, supposedly they haven't fined tuned their interior defense). i do not try to bring amherst down everytime - i have said NUMEROUS time that they are a great team. the only "bad" things i have said about this year's team is that if they beafed up their schedule and perhaps played against some bruisers that they might have more success against the broots of the midwest down in salem. i don't think i am bringing amherst down by saying that they couldn't beat a big10 or acc team, i think i'm being rational. there are some team that aren't as good as amherst (such as a wheaton type school) that would compete better against such teams as northwestern b/c their team might be better equipped to deal with a big size and speed. as for things i have said about past amherst teams, i think williams was a SLIGHTLY better team than amherst. i was just trying to show senator that talking about injuries is stupid b/c for every injured amherst player there was probably an injured williams player. yes there was a "possibility" that amherst could have won. they did win the first one. but in the end, i think williams had a SLIGHT advantage in salem possibly for no other reason that they had been there before. the only other bad thing i said is that i think schiel was a great player who could have been a lot better with a more "solid" physique and i think his actions off the court only make it harder for nescac athletes and coaches to convince others (admission offices) that  athletes belong in such as school.

walzy,
sorry but i can't send personal messages b/c i'm only "junior varsity level" and i guess pat doesn't allow that. i don't have the links myself either. i don't know why it isn't mentioned on the williams website yet but my roomate is an ex-soccer player and the williams coach (russo) sends "updates" to former players via email and it was in the email the other night. also, perhaps a bad/embarrasing source of information but it's also on the facebook. got to love wallpaper posts. interesting point about khari/alex but i think alex and khari were somewhat of a "national known commodity" in  the d3 soccer world whereas both huffer and leary were only known , i think, in the NE. not that is wasn't deserved but to see both guys get national accolades was pretty cool.

[thunder32]

Do we have to keep bring up such painfull memories

I thank Senator frost for calling Tufts the better team those two games.  They were some great games.  I think that those two teams were about as even as you can get.  I think that you can say the same thing for the Amherst Williams teams back during the Williams championship year.  You guys are really just splitting hairs right now.  I find it funny that, that year Amherst won the league and had the home playoff advantage then williams won the league playoff and untimately the NCAAs.  So in the year that Williams won the NCAAs they came in second to Amherst in the league standing.  (With Amhersts only loss that year in league play to Tufts)

But I just wanted to thow this out there, Tufts destroyed Amherst and lost by one to Williams that year.  So where would that place Tufts?  Also I was hurt for both games hahha. 

That was all from memory I may be off but I think Im right


Weitzen will score his 1000th point this year probably soon.  Im not sure to as how many he has but he has to be very close

[thunder32]

Historian

Love the reading rainbow reference