MBB: NESCAC

[frank uible]

Hope springs eternal. My personal hope is that NESCAC (the conference, not the colleges) will dry up and blow away - fat chance.          

[eclinchy]

The UAA does it and the travel in that league is far more grueling than anything in the NESCAC.

And somehow they manage to be good schools nonetheless.

Last time I checked, you were allowed to study on a plane.

[Pat Coleman]

And not on a bus?

[eclinchy]

Both are allowed.  That's my point -- the UAA and the NESCAC are both good conferences.  I've never taken a side on this whole UAA-NESCAC debate -- I think it's stupid, because they're both great conferences and I don't care which is better.

[Pat Coleman]

And I'm not trying to say one's better than the other -- I'm trying to make the point that the UAA can maintain academics despite the dreaded double round-robin.

[eclinchy]

Haha.  I don't know why I bothered posting in the first place.  We don't disagree on anything...

[nescac1]

The UAA teams play, I believe, 16 conference games a year.

Amherst the last few years, like Williams in past years, will likely play 14 games against conference foes (9, plus two additional little three games, plus three tournament games).  Not much of a difference between six of the ten NESCAC schools (the Maine schools and the little three), on the one hand, and the UAA on the other, in terms of total conference games played.  If NESCAC kept its tourney and went to a double round robin, as many as 21 games on the schedule would be conference games, leaving very few opportunities for travel (and it's important to NESCAC schools, who often recruit players from all over the country, to try to provide opportunities for families of those players to see them play every once in a awhile) or to match up against local / regional rivals on an annual basis.

I don't think its about academics.  But for Williams, at least, I'm not sure that an extra game against Bates or Conn College makes more sense than playing traditional local rivals like Springfield or Hamilton each year ... or going to a tourney in California or PA. 

I still just don't see how not having a double round robin makes a conference any less legitimate, just like not having a conference tourney does not make the UAA conference any less legitimate. 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I don't think its about academics.   

I think you're right on there.  There is no reason to add the double, all it would do is potentially create more in-region losses for the top teams, making it harder for them to get Pool C bids.  Academics is a convenient excuse.

[whoarewebobcats]

I agree--I just don't see a benefit from playing more conference games. The only problem, if you'd like to call it that, with the current system is that some schools probably have easier non-conference schedules than others simply based on location (I'm looking at Bates, Bowdoin, and Colby, knowing the other Maine D3 competition). But that's not really an advantage or disadvantage; or, rather, maybe it's both--an opportunity to pad the record, but not getting the experience to play tougher teams (though that didn't seem to keep them from drubbing the tough-scheduled Jumbos this weekend...Zing! Sorry, couldn't resist.) to prepare for the NESCAC schedule. The whole scheduling thing is pretty tricky anyway, as we've outlined talking about teams not wanting to get destroyed by Amherst, etc. etc. There seems to be no benefit I can see, plus it would likely elongate the season, which is probably either a) illegal or b) strongly not recommended due to cutting into other sports seasons. There's something kind of nice about the current setup, playing the non-conference sort of warmup games before the break, and then going through the conference in the spring--it builds anticipation and provides escalating competitive matchups going into the tourney.

[Friar T]

amherts folks are arrogant enough, and don't need any help from some cyber-friend who makes himself out to be someone he isn't.....

I'm not really sure what this means, but I haven't made myself out to be anyone I'm not, and I have legitimate ties to Amherst and am not just a "cyber-friend." What does that mean anyways? How would one distinguish between fans, supporters, and/or "cyber-friends."

I think FormerBant hit it on the head when he said that the NESCAC formats are more about an idealism then about excuses.

Another long northern road trip for the Jeffs this weekend after hosting Southern Vermont () on Tuesday. Is this team any good?

[Pat Coleman]

Why could't the conference split into divisions like it does in baseball and softball, then? I understand not wanting to take up 20 of your 23 games in-conference, but other large conferences manage to get this done as well.

[The Historian]

I think there are few, if any, who would actually defend the NESCAC's lack of a home-and-home schedule.  I definitely fall into the camp of those who would love to see it happen but know that it will never happen.  And, as far as I can tell, this has absolutely nothing to do with the athletic departments at NESCAC schools.  Rather, as formerbant pointed out, this has everything to do with the presidents, faculties, and boards of trustees at each of these schools. 

Sure, just like the UAA, NESCAC schools could adopt the home-and-home schedule and maintain academic excellence.  I don't think anyone really doubts that the players could handle an extended schedule without any difficulty.  In fact, all the data from several studies show quite conclusively that student-athletes actually perform better academically while in season, traveling or otherwise.

But if you're a college president, how do you even begin to make the case for changing to the home-and-home schedule?  It's politics as much as anything.  Even though I'm sure the brilliant minds that populate this message board could come up with an ingenious scheduling system that would rebut nearly all of the arguments against the extended schedule, the fact remains that at some point a college president would have to go before his/her faculty and board of trustees and argue something akin to: "Yes, our current scheduling system has been working well for many years now, but in the name of athletic fairness, we really need to play each team in our league twice.  At best, this won't increase the amount of time our students are away from the college on road trips or cost any more to the school, but I can't promise that there won't be a slight increase in each of these.  Nor can I promise that this will greatly benefit the academic success of our students.  I know there are many other issues--academic and financial--that many of you value much more than athletics, but as things stand, our conference is continually looked down on by d3hoops posters around the country.  All the major d1 conferences do this, as does the quality UAA, so why shouldn't we?"

Somehow I just don't see too many faculties or trustees going for it...

CCsalive, the Little Three goes back well over one hundred years as a sort of mini-conference between Amherst, Williams, and Amherst.  Tradition alone dictates that each team plays the other two twice, and I'm sure that if it wouldn't upset the alumni so much, the schools would be happy to eliminate those extra games.

Bluesky, sorry for my earlier harshnes.  I was fired up for the Williams weekend and took it out on you and your pithy postings.  I do applaud, however, some of your insights into me.  I never did play college ball.  Though I'm sure I could have equaled Williams second half 3-point shooting on Saturday.  But I'm eager for more of that sort of analysis.

Friar T, my sources tell me that Southern Vermont has a 9 man roster with 6 first-years and 4 guys under 6 feet.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Southern Vermont has two leprechauns and a raccoon seeing serious minutes.

[old_hooper]

Actually, what makes more sense is to have a Pre-Season Tournamnet in Januaray at a neutral site Boston, Hartford, where all teams participate and then the conference tournament as it is.  That would give everyone 3 more games minimum with each other in the conference.  Do away with the Little 3 rivalry or just make sure that the first games are with those teams that want to continue that tradition.  it would be an event that everyone would look forward to each year and travel and academics would not be an issue as it is often stated.

[hoopjunkie]

Southern vermont lost to Middlebury by 30  , another tough game for Amherst .