MBB: NESCAC

[Pat Coleman]

I would never advocate doing away with Little Three or CBB, just for what it's worth. You could incorporate that into a divisional setup where you play your division twice and the other once.

[Baller10]

Walzy, does hixo really coach in a wheelchair behind the amherst bench? If so, can anyone you upload pictures onto the website. Thanks.

[formerbant10]

I don't know the views of every NESCAC president...but I do know one's view of the athletic scene in the NESCAC.  This President loves the NESCAC and its student-athletes and believes that they way the colleges are set up now are the way all colleges should be.  Academics being first and foremost with athletics being extracurricular. 

Do you really think the Presidents care that D3 Hoops posters look down at their conference for the lack of a double round robin?

Tradition has a lot of leverage in the NESCAC.  These are some of the oldest and most prestigious schools in the country and the President's job is to keep the institution at that level or improve the position of the school.  There is a lot more on their plate to worry about than adding another few games to the basketball schedule.  Especially when what the NESCAC is doing now is working.

As for the player's view...I don't think there is anyone out there who wouldn't want to play the double round robin.  You think Tufts doesn't want another shot at Bates to show that game was a fluke?  Or how about Williams getting another shot at the Bants in Williamstown? 

This change will not happen unless the NCAA changes its requirements to participate in post season tournaments....and even then it is not definite that they would budge.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I don't know the views of every NESCAC president...but I do know one's view of the athletic scene in the NESCAC.  This President loves the NESCAC and its student-athletes and believes that they way the colleges are set up now are the way all colleges should be.  Academics being first and foremost with athletics being extracurricular. 

There is a lot more on their plate to worry about than adding another few games to the basketball schedule

As much as I appreciate what Formerbant adds here, I have to point out that these are some fallacies in the argument.  It's not a matter of adding games to the schedule; it's a matter of changing some of the games from non-conference to conference matchups.  This doesn't change the focus of the student athletes, it simply makes a few more of the games count towards the post-season.

That being said.  If I was a NESCAC President or AD, there's no way I'd change this schedule.  I've said before it works out so much better for the schools in the post-season and allows a lot of freedom with the non-conference schedule.

The one thing formerbant said that was right on the money was

Do you really think the Presidents care that D3 Hoops posters look down at their conference for the lack of a double round robin?

Just because a few of the MW conferences complain about the advantage, doesn't mean it should change unless the NCAA mandates it.  Sure it's not a level playing field with the rest of the country, but it's "fair" so long as it's allowed under the rules.  It's not like the NESCAC is sneaking this in on some technicality.

I'd be up for requiring a minimum number of conference games (say 12 or 14), but from the NESCAC perspective, it's working out wonderfully right now.

I just wish you guys would stop trying to trump up other reasons that don't hold weight and just admit that this current system is advantageous for the post-season and move on.

[formerbant10]

Hoops, good catch on the switching/adding.  I meant adding NESCAC games....but glad you caught that mistake for me.

And you're absolutely right, if I was an AD I wouldn't change it either....but I really believe that the Presidents are worried about other things than the basketball schedule.

[Ralph Turner]

... a college president would have to go before his/her faculty and board of trustees and argue something akin to: "Yes, our current scheduling system has been working well for many years now, but in the name of athletic fairness, we really need to play each team in our league twice.  At best, this won't increase the amount of time our students are away from the college on road trips or cost any more to the school, but I can't promise that there won't be a slight increase in each of these.  Nor can I promise that this will greatly benefit the academic success of our students.  I know there are many other issues--academic and financial--that many of you value much more than athletics, but as things stand, our conference is continually looked down on by d3hoops posters around the country.  All the major d1 conferences do this, as does the quality UAA, so why shouldn't we?"

Somehow I just don't see too many faculties or trustees going for it...

CCsalive, the Little Three goes back well over one hundred years as a sort of mini-conference between Amherst, Williams, and Amherst. 

There must be some real Wesleyan antipathy there! 

[dman]

exactly,
nescac's current schedule has absolutely nothing to do with getting bids for the ncaa tournament.  i believe it was set up before the current ncaa structure.  these schools may be extremely wealthy, but when it comes to allocating funds for basically two sports (men's and women's b-ball), they're not going to fund overnite trips and hotel stays, when there is plenty of competition within 2-3 hr driving distance.....

[feces monkey]

I just wish you guys would stop trying to trump up other reasons that don't hold weight and just admit that this current system is advantageous for the post-season and move on.

Some outside posters seem to insinuate that the single round robin was some sort of diabolical plan hatched by the NESCAC presidents at the outset to ensure multiple NCAA bids. Most NESCAC presidents couldn't tell you the difference between a basketball and squirrel, nevermind find a way to 'work the system.'

[Pat Coleman]

Walzy, does hixo really coach in a wheelchair behind the amherst bench? If so, can anyone you upload pictures onto the website. Thanks.

This is true. I didn't shoot any photos of this specific aspect of the Amherst/Middlebury game but if you look at the photo gallery we posted you can find him there.

http://www.pictureprints.net/albums.php?gallery=1533

[The Historian]

I don't know the views of every NESCAC president...but I do know one's view of the athletic scene in the NESCAC.  This President loves the NESCAC and its student-athletes and believes that they way the colleges are set up now are the way all colleges should be.  Academics being first and foremost with athletics being extracurricular. 

Do you really think the Presidents care that D3 Hoops posters look down at their conference for the lack of a double round robin?

Tradition has a lot of leverage in the NESCAC.  These are some of the oldest and most prestigious schools in the country and the President's job is to keep the institution at that level or improve the position of the school.  There is a lot more on their plate to worry about than adding another few games to the basketball schedule.  Especially when what the NESCAC is doing now is working.

Just for the record, formerbant, I agree with you.  My earlier post may have been confusing, but the main point was that I'm pretty sure athletic scheduling is pretty far down the list of priorities for NESCAC presidents.  I know for a fact that some presidents would much rather cut games than add them or even spend the time trying to figure out how to move them around.

That being said.  If I was a NESCAC President or AD, there's no way I'd change this schedule.  I've said before it works out so much better for the schools in the post-season and allows a lot of freedom with the non-conference schedule...

I just wish you guys would stop trying to trump up other reasons that don't hold weight and just admit that this current system is advantageous for the post-season and move on.

Hoops Fan, I agree that the NESCAC system is advantageous for post-season bids, but I also think you're deluding yourself by thinking that this issue gets any attention in NESCAC presidential circles.  Perhaps some ADs are thinking cynically about the benefits of the NESCAC system, but I guarantee you that no faculty or board of trustees is holding up a conversion to the home-and-home system because of competitive advantage on the national level.  In fact, many faculties would be just as happy to see NESCAC schools return to the days of having no post-season and think--erroneously, in my opinion--that having less competitive teams means having better students in the classroom.

[The Historian]

And thanks, Ralph Turner, for the catch on the Little Three.  Obviously, my biases even subconsciously pervade my typing.  Wesleyan, of course, is the third of the group.

[nescac hoops]

of course there are flaws with the current "round robin" system. correct me if i'm wrong, but if all plays out accordingly and trinity loses to amherst in the last weekend, then bates, tufts, and trinity will be in a coin flip for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place - a situation that probably would be less likely with another matchup b/t all the teams. however, suggesting that the current schedule is a conspiracy by nescac presidents to get more teams ncaa bids is absurd. not so long ago, nescac teams were not even allowed to compete in the ncaa tourny and it took a lot of convincing for nescac presidents to allow their school to compete in the postseason. to be honest, i like the current system - it allows for more non-conference games (possibly more out of region games) that makes the decision regarding at-large bids easier. non-conference and out of region games are imperative to d3, as voters cannot turn on espn to watch any given team and need such games to gage team's talent in comparison to others. yes, the uaa is a great conference, but let's say they have a "down year" - the second place team may not be all that good and deserving of a bid, but will still have a good record given that there is less opportunity for them to show their "true mediocre selves" against better competition and may end up with an undeserving bid. both schedule systems have their flaws.

thoughts from amherst....

amherst has yet to click yet, which is only based on me seeing them twice and from amherst posters have admitted on this board. this fact is both scary for amherst fans and for tufts/bates teams that have already lost to amherst, who i don't believe has hit all cylinders. i wasn't at the midd game but heard it was close and amherst couldn't put williams away, again, until half way through the second half. amherst is deep, however i think they should stick with their top 8-9 players. in some ways i think they have too much depth and some players, with the exception of olson, aren't given enough time to get in any groove. i haven't seen coulibaly play at all this year and know he was a started but from what i've seen, olson, mclaughlin, wheeler, hopkins, and jones should see the most time followed by baskauskas and goldsmith - and coulibaly and salerno in the mix.

as for williams, they are not as bad a people on this forum make them out to be. they are not awful, but are not what they used to be. i haven't seen tufts (who will not lose a lot this year) or know how williams will match up with them, but i think next year the ephs will be the second best team in the conference behind williams. paulsen isn't losing a whole lot (one player who is no longer a starter), and i really like the two freshman he has starting. i think that with all trinity and bates is losing, williams will return to the top (2 or 3) again.

non-basketball related thoughts....
the hangar has the best wings i've ever had. if i was a recruit, i would choose the hangar over williams in a heartbeat.
the announcer for amherst needs to be reminded that he is not calling a WWF match and that it's a basketball game. he had the williams fans in tears with laughter. people in the stands referred to him as vince mcmahon, as in the wwf  paly-by-play announcer. its worth going to lefrak if you haven't heard the kid yet. in all seriousness, how long is hixon in a wheelchair for? again, in all seriousness, this is a major injury for the jeffs, as he can't stand on the sidelines and can't do any in-game coaching........or constant whining.

[frank uible]

On 11/17 Southern Vermont lost to Williams 79-81 - at Williams.

[mrmike88]

I'm assuming you're talking about our fill-in PA announcer.  He's a riot.  You should have heard him do the Wesleyan-Amherst women's game on Tuesday to an empty gym.  He was going absolutely nuts for Wesleyan's baskets!

In all seriousness, I like it, in a way.  Adds character to the sometimes-dull LeFrak experience.

[Baller10]

Pat, thanks a lot for the link to those pics.

Thats a tough break for hixo. Is Dr. Lohrer doin the surgery? Stan Zieja the rehab? Those two men have been teh backbone of the amherst men's bball program for a long time. absolute legends.