MBB: NESCAC

[ballaholic4]

Speaking of the "worst posts of all time" i seem to remember being berated for saying that i thought Farrell was worthy of POY consideration. 

Now that half of the other posters on the board are starting to realize how good he is, i just thought I'd take this chance to say i told you so.

Unfortunately, in this league everyone has always been evaluated on the basis of how they perform against Amherst or whoever the top dog is, or else you're a nobody.  Fortunately for people who PLAY on Amherst or Williams 3 years ago, they play in that gym every night, so their mediocre and poor games are overlooked in favor of their stellar performances. 

For the one millionth time, players at Amherst are all a little better than there counterparts on other teams.  Individually, Olson is the only one that deserves first team CONSIDERATION let alone honors.  Wheeler is very good, but his numbers and performances are a little down this year and he's not better than any one of the following: Cohen, Stockwell, Stone, R kelly, Rose, Farrell, or Shalvoy.  So if you take 4 of those 7 (assuming Olson's on the 1st team) I don't see how you could justify putting 2 'herst guys on the 1st team.   

Hopkins IS mediocre, he's 6'10 for god sakes and like the man (i don't remember who) said, he would have snapped up a mid-major offer in 2 seconds if a decent one had been given to him.  The fact that he's from the middle of nowhere or grew (1 alleged inch) don't help your case.  A 6'9'' kid from the middle of nowhere should average 25 and 10 and, if the skills or even the POTENTIAL, is there, they get the benefit of the doubt.  I'm not sure if that didn't happen in his case or what, but he sure as hell hasn't done anything in the last year to be mentioned in the same breath as Cohen, Stockwell, or Stone.  Those guys can dominate, you have to run schemes to minimize their impact, the tallest one is 6'6'' and they play bigger than k-heezy (as he's affectionately known). 

Herst fans, stop hyping people on potential, it's annoying.  he does put up pretty good numbers for his minutes; 9.4 and 3.5 in 16 mpg.  but keep in mind he's coming in against 2nd team centers, probably playing some garbage time at the end of games.  And if you figure that he'd play about 30 minutes as a starter, are we supposed to be impressed by a 6'10'' guy averaging 6 or 7 rebounds?  There have been wing players that have better rebounding numbers than that. 

Another intresting aside- Amherst has 2 double doubles as a TEAM this season, both by Brian Baskauskas.  I know the jeffs don't play a ton of minutes, but they've never really been great at producing great rebounders...just a thought

[dman]

ephoops,
  shalvoy will be back for another year.  tommas golia, a sophmore, has been the backup this year and presumably next year.  there is another point guard in the program playing jv, who may develop...besides, tufts gets mcdonalds all-americans, our kids eat at mcdonalds....

[WeezyFBaby]

are the all-conference teams, ROY award, and POY award based solely on the regular season, or does the post-season factor in?

[nescac hoops]

Speaking of the "worst posts of all time" i seem to remember being berated for saying that i thought Farrell was worthy of POY consideration. 
Now that half of the other posters on the board are starting to realize how good he is, i just thought I'd take this chance to say i told you so.

my problem isn't with farrell being a POY nominee or with the idea of cohen being the "best big men" and deserving of a POY nominee himself. i realize you may not have advocated cohen for these "awards" but some colby posters have. i don't doubt that one of these guys is that good but at some point you have to ask yourself, "why isn't colby better if cohen and farrell are really this good?" in other words, ill grant one of these guys these acclamations but not both. rose and shalvoy are pretty much the same 2 man anchor for williams that farrell and cohen are for colby. both teams are surrounded by some good young talent and nice role players. i'm not trying to compare two teams and their talent but my point is that rose and shalvoy carry/lead their team just like farrell and cohen. williams edged colby this year so doesn't that mean that rose should be a POY nominee and that shalvoy is the best point guard? sure, they can be nominees b/c every true race needs more than one participant but that doesn't mean i really think rose or shalvoy should win. in sum, ill grant you that both are very good players but both can't be either the POY or best big man b/c colby's results would be better if they were.

[booyakasha]

First off, Williams is no better than Colby, this year just happened to be an odd year as opposed to an even. It is a 6 hour trip to Williams from Colby. 2nd game on a long road trip for the Mules. It might have been a different story up in Waterville. Secondly, the Shalvoy/Rose combo does not make up the same proportion of performance for the Ephs as Farrell/Cohen does for the Mules. It is there plain as day in the stats. We're talking about this year's leading scorer and possible candidate for best defensive player of all time in the Nescac, who happens to be no slouch on the offensive end. I do no think Shalvoy/Rose are more deserving than Cohen/Farrell, but could see them getting the nod over Ray/Stockwell (atleast one of them).

[nescac hoops]

It is there plain as day in the stats. We're talking about this year's leading scorer and possible candidate for best defensive player of all time in the Nescac, who happens to be no slouch on the offensive end. I do no think Shalvoy/Rose are more deserving than Cohen/Farrell, but could see them getting the nod over Ray/Stockwell (atleast one of them).

i have no idea what the first sentence means but ill comment on the rest. my point wasn't to say that rose and shalvoy should be worthy of these awards and ill grant you that williams and colby are pretty even. yes, the ephs won but like you've said, it was on the second day of a long trip for the mules. my point, which i think you've missed or misunderstood, is that if cohen is the best defensive player of all time (have you ever seen harper from amherst?) and farrell could put up those numbers on any nescac team (conn college or amherst) then why isn't colby better? yes, they had a pretty good nescac season but not for a team that supposedly has the best defender of all time and the best big man in the league along with the best scorer in the league. it just doesn't add up. again, i don't think shalvoy or rose are deserving but they have pretty much done the same for their team that farrell and cohen have done. thus, i don't think farrell and cohen should be getting any more "awards" then rose and shalvoy get...whatever that may be. my point in regards to shalvoy and rose was to give put some perspective on ballaholic's argument.

Secondly, the Shalvoy/Rose combo does not make up the same proportion of performance for the Ephs as Farrell/Cohen does for the Mules.

just looked at the stats...cohen and farrell account for 47% of their team's points while shalvoy and rose account for 43%. cohen averages close to 9 boards while rose, who doesn't even play down low, averages 6.5 boards a game and is the ephs' leading rebounder. it's kind of hard to compare and contrast the "proportion of performance" but it appears that the two sets of players have equal value to their respective teams and equal "participiation" in their success.

[walzy31]

There are some quite intriguing options for every fan (minus Wes & Conn).

Additional Amh/Bates lines:

"The Lithuanian Rebounding Bet" - Featuring former Amherst NESCAC Rookie of the year and Mr. Double-Double himself
Total rebounds on Saturday:

Matia Kostakis -5
Brian Baskauskis +5

Will Tim McLaughlin block a shot?

Yes -120
No -120

Who last possessed the ball as the final buzzer went off?

Dan Wheeler +400
Andrew Olson +100
Fletcher Walters +300
Brian Lundeen +2000
Zak Ray +800
Brian Wholey +900
Other Lord Jeff +300
Other Bobcat +1000

FROM AROUND THE NESCAC:

Kevin Bradley AND Eileen Flaherty total 3 point field goals made.

O/U 5.5

Bowdoin Men's AND Women's COMBINED aggregate score.

Bowdoin -30
Trinity +30

"The Martin Bet"
Russ AND Pat Martin total points.

O/U 32.0

At halftime in Oosting gym, the contestant that wins the Bantam Softball raffle will make the half court shot and win $100.

Yes +850
No -1100

"Williams' Gunners Bet"
Maggie Miller AND Chris Rose COMBINED Field Goal Attempts.

O/U 33.5

Drew Cohen AND Nick "Colin" Farrell COMBINED percentage of Colby's points against Middlebury.

>50% -110
<50% -110

Williams Men verse Tufts. First player to score a point for Ephs first name is "Chris."

Yes -300
No +220

Rebounding Margin in Tufts/Williams game.

Tufts -11.5
Williams +11.5

More total points combined.

Val Krah AND Brian Kumf -7.5
Kevin Snyder AND Goheghan +7.5

Cups of water Coach Paulson drinks over course of Tufts game.

O/U 14

[walzy31]

Men's LINES

Amherst -18.5 Vs. Bates
Trinity -8.5 Vs. Bowdoin
Tufts -9 @ Williams
Middlebury -5 Vs. Colby


Things that affected the lines:

Amherst will be inspired coming off a loss; baby Ipcah.
Bowdoin beat Trinity in regular season; undefeated at home.
Sweaty baby blue uniforms.
Old Guy; Kevin Hopkins Vs. Drew Cohen debate.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

That looks like a lot of work Walzy and I'll take the over on the Martin bet.

[Bluesky]

Any conversation about recruiting at Williams is premature when you consider that they have 6 Freshman. Two start and another gets minutes in the currently reduced rotation. In addition, they have two very promising bigs on the bench and another wing player who was injured for much of the season.  All of the Frosh guards can play multiple positions and one of the three first year players currently getting minutes is fully capable of playing the point.

The Freshman class is outstanding and the team, with Rose and Shavoy returning next season, will be loaded. Word on the street is that they also have an athletic forward coming in.

[booyakasha]

Nescac Hoops - If you read the sentence before the one you quoted, I think it will make sense. I was running off to a meeting when I last posted, so my deepest apologies if my prose is not up to your standards. I still disagree the that Shalvoy/Rose are equally important to their team as Farrell/Cohen. You also neglected to concede Cohen is far more valuable than either Rose or Shalvoy on the defensive end, and instead tried to trump my claim that he was a "possible candidate for best defensive player of all time in the Nescac" with the dropping Harper's name. The "best defender of all time" debate is far too subjective an issue for you to denounce another person's opinion with the mere mention of another great defender.

[nescac hoops]

booyakasha,
i really just didn't understand what the sentence meant - wasn't trying to be obnoxious - but it seemed to be a big part of your argument...were you trying to say something about stats not telling the whole story? i wasn't sure and still don't understand but wasn't trying to call you out on your writing skills. i just wanted to understand your argument. i think we may have to agree to disagree on this one. perhaps farrell and cohen do a little more for their team than rose and shalvoy. the two set of guys play different positions so it's hard to compare stats directly. do shalvoy's 5 assist a game matchup to what cohen does on defensive end? apples and oranges. i think you can concede that colby and williams are pretty even teams with a similar situation...2 stars and some role players who fit in nicely. it's obviously pointless to compare the remaining 3 starters for each time and decide who has better players surrounding them, though i don't know if williams has a player like Choice who can put up 25 and 11 against a team like trinity....with the exception of rose or shalvoy. even if shalvoy and rose are blessed with slightly better players than farrell and cohen, which i'm not convinced of, colby should still be better if cohen and farrell are truly that good... or shalvoy and rose are equally as good.
answer my question honestly, if cohen is the best big man in the league this year and is possibly one of the best defenders ever in the nescac and if farrell is truly a worthy POY contender, wouldn't colby be a little better? don't get me wrong, they have had a strong season, but not one that adds if cohen and farrell are what colby posters say they are.

[booyakasha]

I overreacted on the bit about the writing. I agree we have to agree to disagree (how's that for a sentence). I never said Farrell should be player of the year, but I think there is something to the fact that he is leading the league in scoring and has been the only repeat player of the week this year (three times, two during the conference season). As far as Cohen is concerned, his offensive numbers are generally in line with the other good big men in the conference, but it is the blocked shots and shots changed that sets him apart from the rest. I implore you to find me a better option. We have already concluded on this board that we can't compare him to Hopkins with such a descrepancy in PT, but that is what it is, and we can't force Hixon to play him 33 mins a game so we can compare. As far as Colby needing to be better for the pair to be consider for awards, I think the league is in a far different situation than in years past. This year there is far more parity in the league from top to bottom. the #6 seed took the #1 to OT.  The #7 beat the #2. Middlebury is hosting a quarterfinal. I think everyone will agree it is a lot more difficult this year to conclude the POY must come from the top seeds, especially when you have Amherst's unique situation of having such a well balanced attack that it is tough to justify a postseason award outside of Olson.

[nescac hoops]

booyakasha,
i agree. it has been a very weird year in the nescac. it seems that teams #2-8 could beat each other on any given day. admittingly, i have only had the chance to see williams and amherst this year. obviously, amherst won both games but it wasn't olson who hurt them. t mac, hopkins, and jones KILLED the ephs, who have no answers for big, strong, or tall guys. everytime they were given the ball, hopkins and jones scored at will. they constantly caused turnovers in the paint on eph drives to the hoops and forced some really bad shots. the ephs freshman who start down low are good. they will be very good but right now, they are not quite strong/experienced enough to contend with the big boys of the conference, which is why i don't think tufts is a good match for the ephs and would rather see midd on saturday. i don't like to talk about injuries but at the time colby played williams, rose really hadn't hit his stride yet coming off the broken hand. you can ask anybody who has seen the ephs play this year...he REALLY struggled in the beginning when he missed the first 6 games or so with his broken hand. i don't know if he just found his shot/confidence or his hand was still sore. i really don't know. but the chris rose playing right now was not the same player back in early january and neither are the ephs. ask anybody about how rose's game has elevated the ephs of late. it wasn't as if his game against colby was a fluke, he really hadn't had a good game all season. his first good game came next week against trinity (34 pts.) and he has really taken off from there. again, i can't attribute it directly to anything...i think he was in less pain and found his shot. either way, after seeing how amherst's big men destroyed williams and knowing that the ephs can't guard any big man and not playing with the chris rose of late, i just can't see how colby would lose to the ephs. williams is good and i expect big things from them next year but i still couldn't understand how the best big man in the league and the best scorer (possible POY) could lose to the ephs. i just can't. obviously, every team has a slip-up but i think colby and williams are pretty even and i don't think this eph win was a "miracle" of sorts.

before i really beat a dead horse....
in games where cohen "hasn't shown up" (in the words of the tufts coach) colby has one some of those games. they have players like farrell and Choice to pick up the slack. when rose was either out or playing hurt/without confidence, the ephs were AWFUL. people here wondered if they would even make the nescac playoffs. they lost to wesleyan without rose at home and then beat them pretty handedly on the road with him. since the return of rose, the ephs have played truly consistent basketball. i'm not saying it's great basketball, but they have beat the teams one would expect and have lost some competitive games to, who in my mind, are the top 3 contenders for the league championship...amherst, trinity (lost by 2), and tufts.

[walzy31]

Recruiting Update:

It appears that Tufts is getting a very good point guard from New York City's Regis High School - Matt Galvin.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01032007/sports/no_regrets_for_boateng_sports_dan_martin.htm   (See the bottom of the story for the blurb on Galvin in the NY Post newspaper)

I called a friend who follows high school hoops in NYC.  He has seen Galvin play several times and rates him very highly.  He's a three-year starter on a very good team in the very competitive Catholic league.

He's a 6'1" lefty who is a quick, very good floor general with an above average shot.  My friend was actually very surprised that Galvin is going to Tufts because he believes that Galvin is good enough to play right away for a lot of Ivy/Patriot/ Mid-major D-1 schools.

Dman / Nescac1 - Sounds like Galvin would have been a great fit for Williams to replace Shalvoy.  I wonder if Paulsen tried to recruit him?  Apparently Regis is a very strong academic high school, so grades should not have been the issue with him getting accepted to Williams....

Amherst recruiting update:

Wearing purple & white next winter...Billy Butler.
Poly Prep's leading scorer. 6'6'' sharp-shooter who chose Amherst over Ivy Leagues and aspires to become a heart surgeon.

"Poly Prep coach Bill McNally gives his star guard the green light beyond the arc and at any given point in a game, Butler is prone to pull up and nail an NBA-range three-pointer."
-Quote from January 30th feature article on Butler in the NY Daily News (written by Mark Lelinwalla)

To the people who think Galvin is legit, what do you think/know about Butler?

With Billy Butler & Bennett coming in, and Brian Baskauskas, Brandon, and Bradley returning = Attack of the killer B's in Amherst for years to come.