MBB: NESCAC

[fpc85]

Some thoughts on the championship season:

To the coaches:
Thanks for leading the guys..... you guys were great in managing a group of very talented young men who I am sure some of them wanted to play more than they actually did....to be able to keep them focused and together for the entire season speaks volumes about your leadership.

To the lord jeff nation:
The support was tremendous....for 3 years you guys have continued to grow in number, passion and creative cheers ("fry the fish" is classic).....The guys on the team love you...parents too  ....as they try to repeat, they will need you more than ever next year.

To the players:
Wow, you guys did it.....to see the joy on your faces was priceless...your season was one for the ages....to watch you put team first is refreshing to see....don't ever change! Seniors thanks for showing the underclassmen the way...it is going to be tough to replace your heart and leadership.

To D3hoops community: Thanks for the great posts....they kept me coming back 6 times a day.....To all the amherst haters, it's all good.....to all the amherst riders, it's all good....you guys help keep the Jeffs motivated.

[Gregory Sager]

Re the non-conf. schedule, like most I would like seeing some more tough games but I don't know what the budgetary concerns are.  The last two years they did travel for some tough games, including coming out to L.A. to play Pomona and Oxy.  (Speaking of that, the SCIAC reminds me of NESCAC a lot -- elite private colleges that get most of their challenges playing each other.  Except for Caltech, which has one one game over the last four years if I'm not mistaken.)

That's not a very good comparison, A95. The NESCAC is the bully of a very crowded neighborhood in the Northeast Region, with plenty of lesser D3 conferences in New England available to fatten up the records of the ten NESCAC teams. The SCIAC, by contrast, is marooned on a deserted island in D3 terms. The only other D3 school in SoCal is independent Chapman, and the nearest neighboring D3 league (the NWC) is a thousand miles to the north in Oregon and Washington. What's more, the NESCAC has established itself as a strong customer in national terms over the past few years; the SCIAC has exactly two Elite Eight appearances to show for its thirty years in the D3 ranks, and no SCIAC team has ever made it to the Final Four.

While the NESCAC was taking the rest of the Northeast Region behind the woodshed as usual in non-conference play this year, the SCIAC was busy hovering around the .500 mark, which is fairly typical for them; they play tons of home games in non-conference play, because of all the snowbirds who fly to La-La-Land over winter break, and the hosts win a decent number of those games. But they lose a lot of them as well, and the conference that they play the most -- the GSAC, an elite NAIA Division I circuit of SoCal schools that includes this year's national NAIA-1 runner-up (Concordia CA) as well as such traditional powers as Biola, Azusa Pacific, Westmont, etc. -- tends to beat up on the SCIAC with regularity.

There's a certain amount of similarity between the NESCAC and the SCIAC in terms of academic profiles, but in terms of men's basketball the two leagues really couldn't be any more different.

[Amherst95]

In basketball terms, it would be hard to compare overall quality given the paucity of head-to-head examples, but among maybe twelve Amherst games I saw last (2005-06) season were matches vs. Pomona-Pitzer and Occidental.  Pomona was weak, but Oxy (which eventually beat Claremont in NCAA round one and then lost to Puget Sound in round two) was strong and dealt us one of only two regular season losses.  Tufts was the only team I saw that could have hung with them IMHO -- though I did NOT see Trinity, Witt, or IL Wes last year.  Oxy had this guy named Sam Betty who went for 30 pts. and 10 rebs. if I remember correctly.

However I certainly agree with your analysis of the competitive differences between the conferences Gregory Sager, and appreciate the details.  I was referring for the most part to the similarities between the schools and conferences themselves:  Both conferences, fairly or not, fancy themselves to represent what is best in college athletics and higher education in general, although NESCAC is more self-conscious about it.  These conferences bear stark differences from a conference like the WIAC, and SCIAC and NESCAC members also share an ideology of education that differs markedly from the several Midwestern religious schools that are D3 powers.  Finally, both conferences do compete strongly in many different sports.

Your analogy of a deserted isle is perfect, all the more so because SCIAC teams are marooned in a mass of humanity.

[Gregory Sager]

These conferences bear stark differences from a conference like the WIAC, and SCIAC and NESCAC members also share an ideology of education that differs markedly from the several Midwestern religious schools that are D3 powers.

Huh?

Yeah, I get the bit of snobbery aimed at the WIAC. The people who attend the private schools in my alma mater's conference certainly aren't immune to it, either, so bashing a NESCACer for looking down his nose at a conference that's made up of public schools would have an uncomfortable "glass houses" vibe to it. But I have absolutely no idea where you're going with that last bit about "an ideology of education that differs markedly from the several midwestern religious schools that are D3 powers." What on earth is that supposed to mean?

[Amherst95]

Gregory Sager:  With due respect, what you "get" is very different from what I gave.  I have attended two large public universities (and taught at one), and I would never be so foolish as to endorse the sniveling point of view which you apparently believe I hold.

If I'm not mistaken, the average WIAC member's enrollment exceeds the average NESCAC and SCIAC member's enrollment by three or four times.  Also, every WIAC member is public, whereas every SCIAC and NESCAC member is private.  This is the entirety of what I meant in my previous post.

As to the differences between public and private education, you apparently read into my posts sentiments which I did not write and do not believe.  I'm sorry if I was vague, but I don't believe I wrote anything to support the assertion that I have a snobblish view of public education.  To be clear, I absolutely do not believe that private higher education is inherently superior to public higher education.

As to the differences between educational ideologies, I randomly chose two schools to make my point.  Here is the stated vision of Calvin College:

Calvin College is a comprehensive liberal arts college in the Reformed tradition of historic Christianity. Through our learning, we seek to be agents of renewal in the academy, church, and society. We pledge fidelity to Jesus Christ, offering our hearts and lives to do God's work in God's world.

And here is an excerpt from the mission statement of Bates College:

Bates is a college of the liberal arts and sciences, nationally recognized for the qualities of the educational experience it provides. It is a coeducational, nonsectarian, residential college with special commitments to academic rigor, and to assuring in all of its efforts the dignity of each individual, and access to its programs and opportunities by qualified learners.

Again, I am not endorsing either view.  But I submit that these institutions have chosen for themselves distinctly different educational philosophies, with the key words being "Christian" and "nonsectarian".

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Holy Cross, along with most low-mid DI's won't play any DIII's unless they absolutely need some guarantee games.

As for this year's teams.

I've played against both PG's.....even though Thomas didn't have a great game in the NCAA game, I'd still pick him over Olson.  Not by much though.

I love Olson as a player, very very very talented and is a much better shooter than Thomas.  Thomas is a tremendous on the ball defender and is quicker and stronger than Olson.  Plus, Thomas is one of the toughest competitors I've seen play....sometimes his kryptonite, as he tries to do too much himself.

Amherst's squad next year would do pretty well against the lower half of DI.  They wouldn't win every game they play, but they would find a way to be competitive.  Well prepared and confident going up against a team that would not take them as seriously as needed.....spells disaster.

I agree, this Amherst squad takes care of the ball, which is essential, especially against teams that might be more athletic.  They could do well against the bottom 150 or so teams in d1.

The problem is that Amherst is a rather up-tempo team, which doesn't play into their hand against a d1.  I'm just not sold on their ability to beat a mid-level d1 squad in the halfcourt, which is what they would have to do to compete.

[hasanova]

Andrew Olson was named NABC Co-Player of the Year, along with Guildford's Ben Strong.  Congrats to AO, but I wonder what else he has to accomplish.  David Hixon, not surprisingly, was named Coach of the Year, as he was on this website as well.  I can't imagine Hix leaving Amherst, although, like Olson, he has accomplished almost everything possible.

It's actually Guilford.  We get Guildford, Gilford, Gullford and so on, but I've also seen Amhurst, Amhert and perhaps even Ambivalent or Amharic.  I'm a Guilford alumnus, so I verified the spelling on my diploma in the den.    Congratulations to Andrew and Ben!  I've seen Strong play many times and I've heard Olson is super as well.

[lemonjello]

My bad Hasanova.  Thanks for straightening me out.

[dman]

walzy,
even though i'd be the last guy to let you down, i never pass up an opportunity to bust on the 'hearst.......

[hasanova]

My bad Hasanova.  Thanks for straightening me out.

No problem, lemonjello.  I have a very dry sense of humor, so I'm just having some fun.    It's an understandable misspelling, since there is a Guilford and a Guildford in the UK.  Guilford College is in the NC county of the same name, which was founded by English settlers.  By the way, it also has the same name as a Connecticut town I've visited on the Long Island sound east of New Haven.  Again, congratulations to the Amherst Lord Jeffs and to Andrew Olson.  Hopefully, the Guilford College Quakers can also be in the Final Four next season!

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Hopefully, the Guilford College Quakers can also be in the Final Four next season!

I think your chances are pretty good so long as no one takes a hacksaw to your giant.

[hasanova]

Hopefully, the Guilford College Quakers can also be in the Final Four next season!

I think your chances are pretty good so long as no one takes a hacksaw to your giant.

Yikes!  That's a scary thought.  Yes, Guilford is very lucky to have Ben Strong.  At 6'11", he is very tall for DIII.  Fortunately, he has a LOT of talent to go with that height.  Apparently, a couple of DI programs (Hawaii and BYU) made some advances at Ben last summer after he made first team All-ODAC as a sophomore, but he stayed in Greensboro and had a great Junior season.  One of his teammates and fellow Junior, Point Guard Caleb Kimbrough, has played with him on the same teams since their Middle School and High School days in Chapel Hill.  Caleb is just 5'9", so his DI prospects were not as bright as Ben's.  They've publicly stated they made a pact to play together and Guilford recruited both.  They room together and their chemistry on the court is uncanny.  Guilford's willingness to accept both of them as a "package deal" has certainly been a blessing for Quaker hoops. 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

That's a great D3 story.  I'm sure Strong turned down some money elsewhere to play close to home with his friend.



(I'm also sure this will spawn several hilarious posts from the usual purveyors of wisdom on this board.)

[hasanova]

That's a great D3 story.  I'm sure Strong turned down some money elsewhere to play close to home with his friend.
-
(I'm also sure this will spawn several hilarious posts from the usual purveyors of wisdom on this board.)

I agree, it is a great story.  Caleb publicly acknowledges his taller friend probably opted for a DIII school so they could stay together when he could have gone alone to DII or even DI out of HS.  You can't, as the basketball adage goes, "teach height", but Ben has really matured as a polished player the past two seasons.

As both a purveyor (rarely) and consumer (often) of wisdom, the more the merrier!  Tell your fellow posters to bring it!  lol  This comparison may be lost on some younger posters who haven't followed the Sunday comics as long as I have, but older Guilford alumni sometimes refer to the inseparable duo as "Mutt and Jeff."  Whatever you call them, they can play!

[VigoTheCarpathian]

Hasanova, are you sure it had nothing to do with the fact that the "f" and "d" keys are located directly next to each other on a standard "qwerty" keyboard?

Dman, you are in fact correct that Williams won a championship first.  The Yankees-Red Sox analogy comes to mind first, but I think the following is more accurate to describe that of we which we are referring.  While the British Navy was a global powerhouse before the United States existed...something tells me I'd take us against them these days.

Keep dreaming that your kids have career days everytime they play anyone good.  The rest of us will bank on Olson working the ball inside to the guy who is two inches taller than your tallest player as well as the mutants over at williams unable to entertain a kid with normal social skills enough for him to choose you guys over us.