MBB: NESCAC

[hoopjunkie]

If Pat Martin is back for the Bantams they will be very tough . When I watch him play, its like watching a man among boys . He goes left better then he goes right . There is no question he is physically the strongest point in the conference.
With the graduation of Stockwell & Wheeler who takes over ownership of the best power forward in the league ?

[NYBlockParty]

1st time posting for this guy.

Since I just read for the first time in a few months, I must say I was interested in your discussion of the all-Jew team.  Being a fellow tribesman, I thought I'd give my .02. And since I don't want to beat a dead horse, I'll make it quick.

I appreciated the recognition and I can't imagine how another person wouldn't. I know people define minority groups differently but when I look at the figures and see 13M Jews of about 6.6 B (I used Wikipedia) I don't see how any Jew wouldn't appreciate the recognition being the small number of Jews playing collegiate sports. I see no problem with minority groups celebrating athletes in whatever ways they want to go about their business. As for the comment about the White Supremacist Group (and I know the person was making a larger point) I think any so-called minority group reserves the right to celebrate their athletes in their respective magazines however they want. And if the white supremacists have a magazine (probably in Mississippi...) and they can find a DIII team of their most prized racists and bigots, then all power to them. In fact, I'd buy a copy right now and read the descriptions of each player and probably react something similar to Ron Burgundy after Baxter eats a whole wheel of cheese.

HOWEVER, I don't know what kind of operation the Jewish Sports magazine is running, (who is in charge there?) because I didn't even know about this until I read these posts months after it happened. If the magazine is just trying to fill space on their page, or on their website, and they don't care about contacting each person, then that's just awful, maybe even more awful than the Mets bullpen right now. 

[hoopjunkie]

Ny Block Party welcome . The Jewish Sports Reveiw comes out once every two month reveiwing pro , college & high school jewish athletes . Depending on the season one month it may talk about D1 lacrosse or tennis etc.
I really did`nt mean to cause a controvery , however there are so few of us tribesman excelling in sports , its nice to know who is out there .
It is also more of a pamphlet of 12 pages , not a magazine .

[nescac hoops]

With the graduation of Stockwell & Wheeler who takes over ownership of the best power forward in the league ?

I think the power forward position is a tough one in the NESCAC....either shultz or rose is the power forward for williams. neither of them are truly power forwards (a weakness for the eph starting five this upcoming year) but technically one of them is given they essentially start 4 guards. However, I do think both are talented "big guards" and if you want to call either of them power forwards, then they would be up there. The same goes for Pierce from Tufts...he is listed as a forward and in the game I saw him, he did a lot of damage against a small williams team under the hoop. I'm not sure I would call him a power forward either, but again he is another guy who I could see starting in a line up where he is technically a power forward despite his abilities as a shooter/slasher. I don't know what you would call weitzen either but i think he's got to be a first teamer this year and does a lot of things on the court one expects out of a power forward...and has the passing abilities of a pt. guard and can shoot like a shooting guard. In other words, I think there are some teams that will be sporting 4 guards in the line up - there will be some talented "big guards" but I don't know if I would call them power forwards. Of these four "big guards" I would say weitzen is the best and most dynamic. I realize I may be forgetting some true power forwards but I only had the chance to see Williams, Tufts, and Amherst play and who knows how some upcoming sophomore big men will be this year.

[JeffRookie2]

I know people get sick of hearing about how good the Amherst reserves are, but I would watch out for Fletcher Walters this year. He got about 10-15 mpg last year and he looked just as good as Dan Wheeler when he played. Also, Matt Goldsmith, who would have started last year, is now back. He is also more comfortable at the 3, but he definitely has the body of a nescac 4.

Aaron Smith is really good for Middlebury, but he might be more of a 5. Poward Forward is definitely not one of the nescac's better positions.

[WestCoast21]

What about the big guys at Trinity for power forwards, Taylor and the other strong senior, Marten or something?  Are they up there for power forwards?

[JeffRookie2]

RTIII probably is, but he didnt have a big year last year, and he was gone the year before that. He has great potential though. R. Martin plays center for them.

[fpc85]

Amherst has all the best 4's and 5's. just a very biased opinion. There isnt a team that matches talent of Goldsmith, Walters, Jones, Hopkins. Those are just the srs. the other guys are very talented as well. the trinty kids are close but i give the edge to the jeffs.

[Agent_Zero]

thanx for opening your comment with "just a very biased opinion" fpc. explain to the rest of us what you know about the talent of goldsmith since he played all of 1 minute last year. jones averaged 4.6 and 2.9 in nearly 11 minutes of action. fletcher had a shade over 7 pts per game and under 4 boards in nearly 15 minutes per game. hopkins, who had a slightly respectable 10.4 pts, didnt even average 4 rebounds per game, which i find interesting for someone his size compared to other players in the conference. so maybe im missing something, maybe these players are all better than the box score seems to indicate but i watched them play 3 times last year and thought the stats reflected pretty well. now hopkins is a true five, which is an anomaly in the league, other than the waste of space at tufts, pat sullivan. pierce and weitzen are better than all those players. so is russ martin. prolly make a decent case for a couple other guys too. but hey, thats just my very biased opinion...ive got stats to back it though

[hoopjunkie]

I totally agree with agent zero , the Amherst guys are totally overrated , except for Goldsmith & Adolphe who both did`nt really play last year . I think Olson makes everyone around him better. I do like Aaron Smith for Middlebury & Charles Stone for Conn College . Who are both true 4 `s . I think most teams in the NESCAC play with 3 guards & 2 forwards . I also love what nescac hoops said about Weitzen . He is a great passer for a true power forward . Also around Tufts they compare him to Larry Bird . Can`t run ,can`t jump but has incredible court vision & can really shoot . But he is from NYC so I don`t know if he likes the Bird comparision.
I don`t know what happened to Charles Stone . He gets no props . Probably because of a fairly poor team .

[fpc85]

AZero, don't get so sour...its only discussion...I am not hating on any NESCAC player I just prefer the post guys at lefrak...its only discussion and i think i have been down this road before...months ago...it really is about the type of player you prefer. you take the guys you mentioned and i'll take mine and i am confident the jeffs will win (provided all other things are equal). no question about me being biased...i have watched these guys play for 3 years and  and  the numbers will always be a poor reflection on most amherst players b/c they all share playing time.for the sake of argumet, if you combined the nummbers of the 5's for amherst (oshea,jones and hopkins) the provided 18.5ppg and 9.5rpg. the 4's (wheeler and walters) provided 20.9ppg and 8 rpg. i think those numbers are good and compare with some of the high minute guys like pierce, weitzen etc. but i suppose most would choose the guys u mentioned and i understand why they might..in my opinion they would be making a mistake.

hoopjunkie, lol...i think under appreciated is a better analogy....olson is the best, but i am sure he will tell you that he benefits from the post guys as much they do from his fantastic on court leadership and skills.

[Agent_Zero]

wasnt getting fpc, just trying to understand your comment and contribute to the discussion. and your combining numbers argument makes sense since they all share time however you are combining 5 players against 2 players, at least in the pierce and weitzen discussion. combine pierce and weitzens numbers and you get something like 30 and 13. so yea, you could take them and if you think those guys on a team would beat the tufts guys, then hey, you are welcome to your opinion and it makes for good discussion. however, in the tufts game last year, pierce and weitzen dominated those players and olson made the difference in the game. hoopjunkie is right, olson is the steve nash of d3 basketball. he makes everyone around him that much better. and im sure olson might tell everyone to their face that he benefits from his post players but on the inside im sure hed be laughing. take away his post players and just put average ones in their place, how do you think amherst does? i dont think they are much worse off. take away olson, and put an average point guard in his place, then what? they are much worse off

[mrmike88]

To answer why some Amherst posters are high on Goldsmth, who played one minute last year, you have to go back to his sophomore season.  By the end of the year, he was a solid rotation player on a Final Four team.  If I remember correctly, he got more minutes than all of this current senior class except Olson.  He was a big-time post defender and got a lot of key rebounds.  He played an important role on that squad.  Next season he's going to be a very important part of this team, especially with so many solid defensive players having graduated.

[walzy31]

wasnt getting fpc, just trying to understand your comment and contribute to the discussion. and your combining numbers argument makes sense since they all share time however you are combining 5 players against 2 players, at least in the pierce and weitzen discussion. combine pierce and weitzens numbers and you get something like 30 and 13. so yea, you could take them and if you think those guys on a team would beat the tufts guys, then hey, you are welcome to your opinion and it makes for good discussion. however, in the tufts game last year, pierce and weitzen dominated those players and olson made the difference in the game. hoopjunkie is right, olson is the steve nash of d3 basketball. he makes everyone around him that much better. and im sure olson might tell everyone to their face that he benefits from his post players but on the inside im sure hed be laughing. take away his post players and just put average ones in their place, how do you think amherst does? i dont think they are much worse off. take away olson, and put an average point guard in his place, then what? they are much worse off

2 v 2 matchup:
Olson and an Amherst big versus Pierce and Wietzen.
Who wins?
A more fitting question might be, which team is sweatier at the end of the run?...i'll take Jake and Jon.

There are some talented 4's and (undersized) 5's in NESCAC beyond just the four or five that Amherst has. Amherst benfits from having those guys play against each other everyday and making each other better. But Charles Stone, RT3, R Kelly, EL's Martin etc. are players in the past year or two who have proved themselves as solid big men.

Rose might be a 4 on the defensive side of the court, but there is no way I'm buying he plays the 4 in their offense. Guy led the 'CAC in 3pt Attempts last year and led Williams in shots taken (and they weren't Ty Rhoten type Power Foward shots).

Ephwatcher1,

I like the excitement about the All-NESCAC All Crazy team. You just put Charlie Cates and Richard Marten on the radar screen.


Line Change: Amherst line decreases from 63 to 62 in the Hunter game  due to an increase in humidity projections for lefrak (up to 4% from 2%), costing Lundeen a FT.

[Agent_Zero]

walzy, in a matchup of olson and an amherst big against pierce and weitzen, im taking...whoever has the ball last and the over. there would be zero defensive stops that entire game. olson would drive past both pierce and weitzen for layups are dump offs to the anonymous big. for pierce and weitzen, they would either drive past the big or post up olson, depending on the matchups. so im taking the over, the under on total defensive stops(the line is 3 1/2), and pierce and weitz are def sweatier in the end. someone make this happen for charity or something